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FORUM / RUGBY /  Serfontein a huge plus for Bools chances

Serfontein a huge plus for Bools chances

Started by Mozart32 REPLIES520 VIEWS· 25 Jul 2013, 03:14
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jul 2013, 03:14
#1
25 Jul 2013, 03:14#1

 I'm not saying that JJ needs hand holding, but he is a much more confident player with Serfontein inside. The Bools lost to the Stormers, in part because they lost the battle at centre. With Serfontein there the Bools are in much better shape. 

 

But there are plenty of weaknesses for the Brumbies to attack. The inept Woolly Boolie at the back. Hougaard who plays scrummie in slow motion. The twin dump  trucks Greyling and Werner Kruger who could make even a softer target than Coenie. And then there are the penalty machines....Flip Flop and Stegman. Put pressure on  these guys and the penalties will flow. 

 

The Bools will, however, come with huge energy and commitment. The Brumbies will have to be as hyped as they were against the Sharks to counter this. It's hard to say if Jakes inability to grab the Aussie coach position has hurt a bit...has lowered his standing with his players......it wasn't well handled. The Brumbies looked flat last Saturday. If they can't raise the bar, they will be run over.

 

But I think perhaps they can get their mojo back, to scalp the Bools at home in a playoff would be sweet for players and coach. After all the Bools were the main movers in trying to fire Jake. And for all it's potency, this is not the championship Bools team of a few years back. It's an intriguing contest.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
25 Jul 2013, 04:02
#2
25 Jul 2013, 04:02#2

Typical.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jul 2013, 04:12
#3
25 Jul 2013, 04:12#3

 What always cracks me up about guys like you is you have a hissyfit every time I post. But then you open all my strings. So either you are deliberately torturing yourself....which, face it is pretty stupid. Or you view my stuff as indispensable to your grasp of what's going on.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
25 Jul 2013, 04:59
#4
25 Jul 2013, 04:59#4

 No you're right, I can't grasp how someone can be as stupid to compare Werner Kruger and Greyling in the same class as Coenie Oosthuizen. JJ and Serfontein are a match made in heaven, JJ has the speed and footwork that gets improved by Serfonteins distribution skills. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jul 2013, 05:07
#5
25 Jul 2013, 05:07#5

 Seems to me that's what I said JJ is improved by Serfontein. And nobody is comparing Coenie with Kruger, except in their scrumming vulnerabilities. And I'm not alone in saying that, Tank Lanning an ex WP tighthead, Visagie one of the most capped tightheads and Kempson a similarly capped loosehead believe exactly the same.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
25 Jul 2013, 05:38
#6
25 Jul 2013, 05:38#6

 Well everyone else seems to disagree.

But do you understand that any other sort of 13 would not be complemented by Serfontein? Someone like Jordaan and De Jong would have a far less effect against opposition.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jul 2013, 05:56
#7
25 Jul 2013, 05:56#7

 Well I can't say that anybody except Os has really endorsed Coenie as a tighthead. But let's focus on JJ. We all see the same things.....he is obviously fast, strong and has a good step. So if Serfontein creates a way to put him in space, he is a threat. But de Jongh and Jordaan are both threats in space as well. Jordaan is extremely fast and de Jongh has a lethal step....just ask Mvovo.

 

But as test centres these guys are more likely to be separated by defence, how they read the game and having attacking vision. Frankly I think none of these players have vision....that's why they go through so any games without featuring. Very true of de Jongh, but as we saw last Saturday of Engelbrecht.

 

The bottom line is if JJ can't create his own chances, he is likely to be snuffed out. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
25 Jul 2013, 12:02
#8
25 Jul 2013, 12:02#8

I had a friend who used to play tighthead and he used to say "As 'n vasskop se rug so krom staan, dan moet jy weet iemand is besig om sy kop in sy gat te druk" (If a tighthead's back is bent like that, in the scrum, you should know that somebody is busy shoving his head up his arse".

 

Just watch Coenie's back, at tighthead, in some scrums..............

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jul 2013, 13:16
#9
25 Jul 2013, 13:16#9
Everyone touch on the problems with the Bulls props - I said at the start of the season that it would be the main problem the Bulls will have to content with. The Brumbies themselves are not the strongest in that department. Mozart screams murder because they used illegal measures last week - which he did not recognise because of his animus against Oosthuizen - and based his whole argument on that one. Unlike Jackson Craig Joubert will not allow that type of thing and they will be penalized for not binding and scrumming inward. I myself do not rate either Kruger or Greyling as props - but the support players are better this weekend with the return of Van der Merwe. In any event the locks of the Brumbies are poor as well. The whole key to the game will not be amongst the forwards - it will center around Morne Steyn. At the start of the season he received the ball flatter and his passing game was better. Recently - especially in the game against the Stormers - he stood so far back in the pocket he might as well have been on he Newlands cricket ground. He kicked away most balls - also in the Stormers half of the field - and because he was way to deep - his passing game was more hospital passes than anything else. Last year in the play-off game against the Crusaders he was pathetically poor and if one considers what happened against the Stormers there is reason to suspect that he could collapse again like he did last year. I think the performance of Morne Steyn - more than anything else would impact on the outcome of the game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jul 2013, 13:21
#10
25 Jul 2013, 13:21#10
Ceradyne Crap - nobody had more of a bent back than Os - I saw it many, many times - so was he also poor in scrumming?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
25 Jul 2013, 14:22
#11
25 Jul 2013, 14:22#11

If you say so.....................

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
25 Jul 2013, 14:27
#12
25 Jul 2013, 14:27#12

Oh............................ and Os du Randt was a loosehead prop......................

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Jul 2013, 15:48
#13
25 Jul 2013, 15:48#13
Coenie's back is never bent, what a load of crap. Coenie has played all S15 at both 1 and 3 and no issues have been raised about his scrumming in either position - for the obvious reason that the Cheetahs scrum has been good all S15. Why all of a sudden is there an issue, when its plain to see that there was no issue at all against the Brumbies bar his first scrum in the second half. As much as Serfontein is good for JJ, he certainly does not define him, given Serfontein has been nothing more than solid in his outings for the Bulls this S15 after his first two appearances, where he was awesome.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
25 Jul 2013, 15:58
#14
25 Jul 2013, 15:58#14

My eyes must have deceived me then. Maaik has agreed that his back was bent but he says it makes no difference to his scrumming.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Jul 2013, 16:02
#15
25 Jul 2013, 16:02#15
Your take on anything rugby is worth a pinch of salt
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jul 2013, 16:04
#16
25 Jul 2013, 16:04#16
Saffex I agree with you here. There are to my mind two problems that effect Serfontein and those are - * Morne Steyn and what he does insofar s constructive backline play is concerned - eg he was horriby poor against the Stormers: and * efforts by the Bulls to turn Serfontein away from his inherent abilities - and try to use him as a battering ram. The Bulls will be far better off with Visser at flyhalf than Morne and should allow Serfontein to play his natural game - which would things to be better insofar as backline performances are concerned and you will see clearly the top player Serfontein really is..
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jul 2013, 16:09
#17
25 Jul 2013, 16:09#17
Tightheads are most like Pieter de Villiers.....cobby fellows with short, mighty backs that dont bend. Franks is another good example. But with Coenie I'd be more concerned with his right foot coming off the ground, than his banana back.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
25 Jul 2013, 16:10
#18
25 Jul 2013, 16:10#18

Saffex

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5029 RE: Serfontein a huge plus for Bools chances
July 25, 2013, 14:02:08

Your take on anything rugby is worth a pinch of salt

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2013, 03:05
#19
27 Jul 2013, 03:05#19

It will be interesting to see if notoriously weak scrummager Werner Kruger can do a better tighthead job than Coenie did last week against the same opponent.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
27 Jul 2013, 03:11
#20
27 Jul 2013, 03:11#20

 The Bulls are a different team in Pretoria. It is their fortress.

Even when the Bulls play elsewhere in South Africa they are not as good as at Loftus.

Some of the same players who look poor to average overseas in the SuperXV, become sensations. 

The forward back bullies the non SA opposition as if they are the under11 B team. 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2013, 21:10
#21
27 Jul 2013, 21:10#21
Not so much of a fortress.......I had a feeling about this one.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jul 2013, 21:22
#22
27 Jul 2013, 21:22#22
Mozart In the end it was Morne Steyn that did what he did last year in the play-off game against the Crusaders - he collapsed in a heap and handed the Brumbies a try by making the most useless relieving kick I have ever seen in my life. He also nearly handed control over to the brumbies when he was charged fown. Morne under pressure is not a nice sight to see. This was the final nail as far as I am concerned - you just cannot have Morne Steyn in the Springbok team anymore - end of story.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2013, 21:27
#23
27 Jul 2013, 21:27#23
So who are you going to play....Jantjies?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jul 2013, 21:47
#24
27 Jul 2013, 21:47#24

 Lambie at his worse cannot be as bad as Steyn was today.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2013, 22:00
#25
27 Jul 2013, 22:00#25

Nonsense....Morne made a bad decision taking that drop. Carter did exactly the same thing....are NZ going to drop him. And it's not Morne's job to call the kick into the corner.The charge down was an aberration, this guy hardly ever gets charged....he has a quick kick.

 

For the rest he defended well ....kicked well and made good judgements.

 

 

Lambie by contrast has been a basket case at 10

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jul 2013, 22:08
#26
27 Jul 2013, 22:08#26

 Mozart

 

You call the charge down kick good judgement?  You call that last  relieving  kick good judgement ?

You call all his ineffective and aimless kicks good judgement?  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2013, 22:18
#27
27 Jul 2013, 22:18#27
From Rugby 365 you will note they make my point about Morne.....and, oops, they make one the oldies you run down Man of the Match....which he was; = "Man of the match: Jacques Potgieter put his body on the line, both on defence and in terms of ball carries. Morné Steyn still read a game better than most and he gain proved he is not the dour, kicking flyhalf many critics perceives him to be. Christian Lealiifano's goal-kicking was invaluable, while Jesse Mogg's boot was vital in driving the Bulls back into their half. Scott Fardy's workrate is also worth mentioning. However, the undoubted man of this match was veteran flank George Smith, who made a real nuisance of himself at the breakdown - showing his class and experience."
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jul 2013, 22:24
#28
27 Jul 2013, 22:24#28

 "Unlike Jackson Craig Joubert will not allow that type of thing and they will be penalized for not binding and scrumming inward".

Well ou maaaikie I hope you heard what the guys were saying in the aftermatch commentary and the video evidence. 

Jan has a strapped knee and thigh. Leave this under 20 player out of the RC is my recommnedation. Give him a good rest and tiem to recover and do conditioning work and be fully ready come 2014. We dont want him ourt for the 2014 season!!!!!  Play Jean and JJ. 

Hougaard. Well he is piss poor and bog ordinary. Someone needs to tell him he is an attacking scummie and if he sees himslef simply as a link he is missing the plot. Have a go Hougie.

Morne was fine and his making a mistake is no big deal. It happens. Personally I felt Lambie had a pretty good season at flyhalf and will continue to grow as a player next year.

Visser trying to field that kick into touch was also a brain implosion!

Man it was very disappointing to see the bulle thow this one.

Can Jake inspire his men to beat the chiefies. Given jake's ability to inspire his guys they will no doubt believe they can. Brumbies need a decent lock as do the bulle. Willemse will be their other lock next year and Hattingh will move to 7. Jaque potgieter will be a loss for them as will Vermaak. 

Basson with his defensive misjudgements has done himself no good Bok selection wise. Could Van der Heever be a dark horse?

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2013, 22:30
#29
27 Jul 2013, 22:30#29

Hattingh had a great game.....as did Potgieter

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jul 2013, 22:36
#30
27 Jul 2013, 22:36#30

 When guys perform in the looser aspects of the game they get noticed and are said to have had a great game. Ihatting was okay but will move to 7 next year and do very well there. 

I am not in favour of 107 kg locks! Willemse will add authority to the bulle next year and with Jaque Potgieter gone they will need Hattingg at 7. With Callie at hooker their pack is looking good and the set pieces sorted. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jul 2013, 00:21
#31
28 Jul 2013, 00:21#31

  Mozart

 

Why don't you answer my questions?   Why try a journalist to cover for you/  Can you not see with your own eyes Steyn was poor in judgements and poor in the game as a whole?  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jul 2013, 00:49
#32
28 Jul 2013, 00:49#32

 The Bools have a game plan.....Steyn has to play within that  plan,. Almost every  time the Brumbies kicked there was a pod of 3 players to deal with the ball. A catcher, who passed to a kicker with a pursuer next to him. It's incredibly rigid. If you can't grasp that Oom , we can't have a conversation.

 

 

But giving you the benefit of the doubt  within  that scheme Morne is expected to do some things and he has discretion in others. He exercised his discretion well....the charge down was not typical...for the rest he did sensible things to protect the lead. I quote the journalist to show I an not alone in that view.

 

The one thing I didn't buy was the drop, but as we sawCarter did the same thing...it was a judgement call made worse by the fact that it failed.

 

Morne remains our only choice at flyhalf, given injuries and poor form among the alternatives

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jul 2013, 01:56
#33
28 Jul 2013, 01:56#33
Mozart No comment about that last kick of Morne that led to the Brumbies scoring the winning try - was that part of his good discretion. Completely silent on that one? Suddenly the drop goal became the norm - all the other aimless kicks straight at the opposition players - that shows good discretion. Sure Morne is the only choice if we want to continue losing tests. He started of last year exactly like he did this year and there was no difference this year. His performance against the Sharks was poor, against the Stormers worse and further deteriorated today. Exactly the same trait as last year - when he failed badly in the tests he played in after failing in the last few Super 15 games.. I smelled disaster when he missed his first two attempts at goal. For him it was fortunate that his other kicks were straight in front of goal -otherwise they would have gone awry as well. If Meyer is stupid enough to pick him - he would soon enough find out who is largely responsible for losing of games. He probably will last two tests this year before he is kicked out again. .
— END OF THREAD —

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