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FORUM / RUGBY /  Serfontein in......Morne bubbling under

Serfontein in......Morne bubbling under

Started by Mozart15 REPLIES628 VIEWS· 29 Jul 2013, 17:41
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jul 2013, 17:41
#1
29 Jul 2013, 17:41#1
Rugby 365 Team of the Week - Semifinals: 15 - Israel Dagg (Crusaders): It was a majority call, simply because Dagg offered so much more than just a kicking option at the back. He is clearly a better fullback than a wing, where he played in the early stages of the season. Bubbling under: Jesse Mogg (Brumbies) 14 - Henry Speight (Brumbies): It was a close call, but Speight edged ahead because he had made more clean breaks and beat more defenders. Bubbling under: Lelia Masaga (Chiefs) 13 - Tevita Kuridrani (Brumbies): He did so much more than just score the match-winning try. Bubbling under: Charlie Ngatai (Chiefs) 12 - Jan Serfontein (Bulls): He is going to a potent attacking weapon for the Bulls and South Africa once he starts maturing. Bubbling under: Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies) 11 - Zac Guildford (Crusaders): Back to his best as an attacking force. Bubbling under: Asaeli Tikoirotuma (Chiefs) 10 - Aaron Cruden (Chiefs): Not often that Dan Carter gets upstaged. Bubbling under: Morné Steyn (Bulls) 9 - Nic White (Brumbies): It was the variation in his game and his work on defence that won him our vote. Bubbling under: Andy Ellis (Crusaders) 8 - Kieran Read (Crusaders): Currently New Zealand's most prized possession. Bubbling under: Dewald Potgieter (Bulls) 7 - George Smith (Brumbies): The old man knows how to push the envelope without opening the wrath of the referee. Bubbling under: Matt Todd (Crusaders) 6 - Liam Messam (Chiefs): The game's highest tackle count and one of only a few players who did not slip a single tackle. Bubbling under: Deon Stegmann (Bulls) 5 - Sam Whitelock (Crusaders): It was a close call and caused plenty of debate. In the end Whitelock edged Brodie Retallick based on two key stats - he did not slip a single tackle and won three line-outs on the opposition throw. Bubbling under: Brodie Retallick (Chiefs) 4 - Craig Clarke (Chiefs): Nine carries, for 47 metres gained, 16 tackles and six line-outs. In short, the highest workrate in the game. Bubbling under: Scott Fardy (Brumbies) 3 - Ben Tameifuna (Chiefs): Still the most exciting ball-carrying prop. Bubbling under: Owen Franks (Crusaders) 2 - Stephen Moore (Brumbies): One of the veterans that helped keep the Brumbies calm and composed when the Bulls looked to take command in the second half. Bubbling under: Chiliboy Ralepelle (Bulls) 1 - Toby Smith (Chiefs): His high workrate, which included 13 tackles, saw him edge Scott Sio (who made just six tackles) and Wyatt Crockett (four tackles, two tackles missed and gave away his customary rash of penalties before being subbed). Bubbling under: Scott Sio (Brumbies - No doubt the village idiot will be puzzled by Morne bubbling under ahead of Carter.....I thought Cruden was sensational, some of his tackles were superb. - And no doubt some are puzzled by JJ not even bubbling under, and Serfontein getting the nod.I was a little surprised by this as well, but I think it has to do with JJ's whole game being one run.....apart from that he was pretty much anonymous. Somebody in the Bools backline also made a very poor call on that last play.....the Brumbies flyhalf and 13 came left....the whole Bools backline were defending right....leaving their last line of defence in open field good old Flip Flop.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jul 2013, 21:57
#2
29 Jul 2013, 21:57#2
The guys who picked Morne Steyn as bubbling under must have their head read. He was comprehensively outplayed by the Brumbies flyhalf and was basically below Carter as well - so the end result showing Morne as bubbling under is in fact a joke. Just one question - what did Steyn show in attack - zilch. Toomua at least contributed to the second try of the Bumbies. And Toomua did not make silly kicks handing possession over to he opposition - a real Steyn contribution. Bad bubbling under choice.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jul 2013, 22:39
#3
29 Jul 2013, 22:39#3

 Toomua beat Flip through the outside gap. Big deal! Steyn and Toomua had very similar running stats....Steyn contributed with the boot and in defence. As for Carter, he would certainly have been my choice.....but Cruden substantially outplayed the Crusader. So they went for Morne, a very solid choice. I remind you....this panel is comprised of journalists from each country

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2013, 00:09
#4
30 Jul 2013, 00:09#4
Mozart You blamed a high pass for the pathetic relieving kick of Morne that handed over possession to the brumbies - ultimately leading to th Brumbies try. Toomua got an even worse pass in similar circumstances and made a relieving line kick gaining about 30 meters.in territory. Also - did Carter made a blatant forward pass to anybody in the Chiefs-Brumbies game" Not that I can remember. Not an excuse for Morne's bad play - I am afraid - he just was not up to standard. I do not depend on the opinion of Journalists to tell me what happens ona field of play - I mae my own assessments. Morne's performance was mediocre when all information is evaluated and that remains the end of the story. Time for him to move to Paris and not detract from the performances of the Springbok team in future..
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jul 2013, 00:20
#5
30 Jul 2013, 00:20#5

 Have to disagree with some of those selections. JJ was better Kurandrani, Carter was better than Cruden in my opinion, who was far better than Morne, who did nothing of note. Toomua was better than Morne as well.

 

The Brumbies 10 beat Frik Kirsten on the outside, not Flip

 

This is a better team of the week with JJ at 13 as it should have been:

 

15 Israel Dagg (Crusaders) - The All Black full-back was a strong presence throughout, but it was his 58th minute try that sealed his selection. Having just conceded a seven-pointer the Crusaders needed to hit back and up stepped Dagg to weave his magic, cutting through a string of Chiefs defenders as he dived over close to the touchline for the score.

14 Lelia Masaga (Chiefs) - A menace on attack, Masaga opened up the semi-final with his second half effort. Seemingly with nothing on the speedster cut back towards the traffic and scorched through the Crusaders big men on his way over the whitewash.

13 JJ Engelbrecht (Bulls) - The Bulls centre ended what has been a strong season with another dominant performance. Jan Serfontein on his inside may be the boy wonder, but Engelbrecht is proving himself to be dynamite in the midfield. He rounded off some good, patient build-up work from the Bulls to open his side's account, handing off Henry Speight as he went over in the corner.

12 Christian Leali'ifano (Brumbies) - Aside from one early miss, the Wallaby centre was on target from the tee and in a game as tight as Saturday's, one can't overstate the importance of a high conversion rate. It's not often that Morne Steyn is out-kicked, particularly on his own turf, but Leali'ifano did the business.

11 Henry Speight (Brumbies) - Not wearing the same number that he turned out in on Saturday, but for a sublime piece of skill that set up the Brumbies' first try, a space is made for Speight. Having broken through the defence, Speight beat three Bulls defenders (including Bjorn Basson who was the victim of a powerful hand-off) before offloading behind his back to send Jesse Mogg over in the corner. Sheer brilliance. A pity he got a taste of his own medicine for the Engelbrecht try...

10 Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) - Went head-to-head against Dan Carter and got the better of his more illustrious opponent. Cruden's intercept try proved decisive but he also impressed with his distribution and option taking. Also defended well with ten tackles made. Edges out Matt Toomua who had a fine all-round game for the Brumbies.

9 Nic White (Brumbies) - Played well in only his second match since returning from a lengthy spell on the sidelines with a shoulder injury. White linked expertly with his forwards and took plenty of pressure off Toomua with some long-range kicks into touch.

8 Kieran Read (Crusaders) - Another polished display from the Crusaders number eight in a losing cause. Read carried well with 45 metres on attack but also impressed with his leadership, especially when his side looked dead and buried after Cruden's try. Also impressed on defence and won his fair share of line-outs.

7 George Smith (Brumbies) - The 33-year-old played a leading role in his side's thrilling victory over the Bulls. Apart from dominating at the breakdowns, Smith was a willing ball carrier and also solid on defence. Also won the official man-of-the-match award in Pretoria. His best game since returning to Super Rugby.

6 Liam Messam (Chiefs) - The All Black flank was at the forefront of the Chiefs' defensive effort with sixteen hits. This was especially significant in the closing stages of the game when the Crusaders were trying desperately to regain the lead.

5 Scott Fardy (Brumbies) - Has been a tireless grafter in recent weeks for the Canberra outfit and was again prominent in their semi-final. Playing in possibly the most under-rated lock partnership in the competition alongside Sam Carter, both locks contributed to a strong scrum early on and were busy around the park. Fully deserved his recent call-up to the Wallabies 40-man training squad.

4 Craig Clarke (Chiefs) - Connacht have arguably done the best bit of business in the PRO12 during the off-season, with the Chiefs co-captain leading by example once again as he covets back-to-back Super Rugby titles. His running game was on show against the Crusaders as he galloped through the visiting defence and with sixteen tackles also racked up, he was the first name down in our tight five.

3 Ben Alexander (Brumbies) - Following a disappointing final Lions Test against Alex Corbisiero, Alexander has bounced back with solid performances in recent Super Rugby outings. Definitely got the number on Dean Greyling, which played a major role in the Brumbies' eventual victory.

2 Stephen Moore (Brumbies) - Re-affirmed his position as one of the top three hookers in world rugby on Saturday as the Australian got through a great deal of work. Jake White clearly knows Moore's worth to the side and subsequently stuck with his man for the full 80 minutes - the only hooker to do so in the semis. Hika Elliot will have to up his performance a great deal in Waikato this weekend.

1 Wyatt Crockett (Crusaders) - Quietly going about his business in recent weeks, making our line-up in successive rounds. Crockett is offering a great deal in open play and was again prominent with five go-forwards complimenting his solid scrummaging against the huge Ben Tameifuna. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2013, 02:44
#6
30 Jul 2013, 02:44#6
I had another look at that kick Oom....you are full of it. The pass was well above his head, gathered and taken down one handed. The kick was under extreme pressure ...a Brumbie whistled by as it was made....Morne had to change the kicking height to avoid the charger. If it bounced one foot further back it was a brilliant kick. As it was, it took a "cricket catch" according to the commentators. - Dave I'm fine with either Kuridrani or JJ getting the nod....statistically they were identical pretty much. JJ's try required beating a tackle, Kuridrani's try required vision and a great line. I do wonder though why none of the Bools midfield came across to help on the Kuridrani try......Basson fell down...useless defender that he is, Hougaard came all the way over from the other wing. Even Morne got in frame....but the Bools centres were both on the far side, well into the second phase.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jul 2013, 02:55
#7
30 Jul 2013, 02:55#7

Poor communication I guess, or the Bulls mistakenly thought they had that side covered with a tighthead prop!!

 

Toomua exploited the mismatch well

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2013, 03:20
#8
30 Jul 2013, 03:20#8
Mozart If -if -if. Why did Toomua get the same kind of pass and made a successful kick? A palooka kick like Morne made is the worst option he could take - and he took it. There was no follow-up by the Bulls of the kick - because nobody expected such a kick into the hands of the opposition. A cricket catch it might have been - but the ball was caught and a new attack launched. End of story - the Bulls lost the game. I agree with Saffex - Morne was poor as he always is. His only advantage is his kicking at goal - a playmaker he is not and his strategic kicks are aimless and ineffective. That makes him ineffective as a flyhalf and what doe he do to benefit the Springboks? Virtually nothing. .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2013, 08:00
#9
30 Jul 2013, 08:00#9

Okay, let's change gears. You had 3 Bools starters in your Bok RC team, still posted on the Board....JJ, Vermaak and hahahahaha Basson. JJ is a consensus pick, but the other two are Oom picks. So how did they do?

 

Well Vermaak, under no particular pressure, threw that 8 ft high pass to Morne, which resulted in the rushed kick. A better pass and Morne has time to make his kick. So by your own logic, Vermaak sets in motion the loss of the game.

 

How about Basson? Well he misses Speight for the first try.....shrugged off like a minor irritation. And in the second try, he turns and falls down, not even a credible ankle tap attempt. So he gets two try assists.....for the Brumbies!

 

You go on about Morne, a player most observers think of as one of the better Bools.....but entirely avoid your two flops. Nobody gets it more wrong than the good Oom, who still thinks Jordaan wasn't run over by Robbie Fruean.....hahahaha.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
30 Jul 2013, 09:30
#10
30 Jul 2013, 09:30#10

 Poor Mozart hating on JJ for no substantial reason even though he supports meagre De Jong.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2013, 10:19
#11
30 Jul 2013, 10:19#11
Mozart You went bananas because I picked Mvovo ahead of Basson at the time - now a false claim that I picked Basson - what a farce. I do admit I picked Vermaak - but there were no reason at the time - now suddenly that has become a reason to shout about after one incident in one match. Subsequently I wrote a different detailed analysis of marginal players - that is after De Villiers said that players should not be in the team because of reputation only - where I said that I believe that reputation only is a dead certainty for disaster for the Springboks. I did on analysis looked at all positions for a 23 man squad and left out most players beng selected on reputation only - and came up with 9 only form players. Your problem is reputation only is your guide in all selections. Yiualone can come up with duds like De Jongh and a player like Alberts - * who has a reputation as a strong ball carrier - but has not effectively carried a ball beyond 2 meters in any test in the RC and none in the June test he played in as well; * who according to you make "bone crushing" tackles - but in fact make bog ordinary tackles only on the fringes and miss tackles even there because his speed is something like a snail as is evidenced by the tries sored by the Samoans in the latest test. You are a real joke insofar as selections are concerned - constantly referring to incidents four or five years ago and comes up with classics - like backing Kruger even though he has no grunt. You then came up with a statement that Kruger is OK and to make up for the lack of grunt by Kruger we must have Alberts - who actually showed nothing gruntwise since last year either. Who punted De Jongh, CJ van der Linde and Steenkamp last year in the EOYT tour selections of Meyer - obviously Mozart and then said De Jongh had a good game at Twickenham despit the vanishing trick he played. And you are still punting De Jongh after his defence collapsed this year in Super 15 - coming upwith classics about why he missed so many tackles. When I pointed out that Morne Steyn is a problem because he is so one-dimensional - no comment only excuses such as a brumby was whistling past him and he had been forced to kick low to avoid a charge down - what a joke. He was charged down previously because he ran about four steps before making a kick. Why not carry the ball into traffic then and try to keep possession or pass the ball to another player who was clear and could make the necessary relieving kick? You never thought of that - now do you? Now Morne must kick one of his atrocious relieving or strategic kicks - resulting in turnover in possession only. Morne failed repeatedly in tests last year and he is bound to fail this year as well.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 Jul 2013, 14:32
#12
30 Jul 2013, 14:32#12

 

Morne Steyn seems to be cracking under extreme pressure these days.

 

He lost the plot last year and was dropped. Took him awhile to regain it but once again when he was called upon to do his his duty, AT HOME, he choked.

 

There were hints of this all season long. Somehow he managed to hang in there but one could see that it wouldn't take much for the cracks to show themselves again.

 

That's a worry.

 

I would have serious second thoughts of giving him the Bok 10 jersey.

 

Just not dependable.

 

Much rather have an out of form Lambie than one who falls to pieces at these critical times.

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2013, 16:02
#13
30 Jul 2013, 16:02#13
Status: Rugby Legend Posts: 6094 Springbok team for Tri-Nations July 25, 2013, 09:55:01 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In this case I am giving all potential candidates - irrespective of injury - with the names of the alternative fit players in brackets:- 15 Willie le Roux 14 Bjorn Basson 13 JJ Engelbrecht 12 Jean de Villiers (c) 11 Bryan Habana 10 Johan Goosen (Morne Steyn/Pat Lambie) 9 Jano Vermaak " Oh Maaikie there's an exerpt from your post.....time to say you are sorry OOOM....you never even had an alternate player for your main pick Basson.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 Jul 2013, 17:45
#14
30 Jul 2013, 17:45#14

 

What's the deal with Basson?

 

You guys can't be serious.

 

He wouldn't even make my bench..

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2013, 18:55
#15
30 Jul 2013, 18:55#15
Mozart That must have been sometime in June - I have written a different analysis since then on two occasions and in both cases stated my opinion clearly about Mvovo. Reason - like Morne Steyn, Basson failed badly in the remaining Super 15 games. I earlier wrote about the players you have punted this year and even now are punting - why not comment on those as well.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2013, 21:46
#16
30 Jul 2013, 21:46#16
Look Ooom ....do you see the time on that post of yours....9.55 on July the 25th? I just copied and pasted it. You picked Basson less than a week ago.....I'll just bring the string up to the top.
— END OF THREAD —

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