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Sharks impossible road trip

Started by Papamoa17 REPLIES189 VIEWS· 25 Jul 2014, 15:05
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PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
25 Jul 2014, 15:05
#1
25 Jul 2014, 15:05#1

 some interesting facts; the first being that no team has won the title after finishing outside the top two after the league. Now in the 2004-2011 format that would surely have changed at some point, but since the added Wildcard round, questions surface over its credibility.

Sharks boss Jake White rounded on this in his column for The Citizen, asking: "Why play these matches at all if they have little or no chance of making it through to the final?" which is a fair point. Really, and no disrespect to them, but with the tough travel factor is anyone backing the Highlanders to win (again) in Durban, catch a long back to Sydney to beat the 'Tahs and then fully recover to also triumph in an away final?

Therein lies the question of can any team finishing outside the top two, in a day and age where home advantage is so vital, actually win the trophy? Again the numbers highlight the difficulties facing the likes of the Chiefs and Highlanders, given that in 36 play-off matches in the last decade only five have been won by the away side. That's an 86 percent success rate for the hosts, while 8 out of 10 sides who finished as league winners went on to win the title, with only the Bulls winning a final on the road, albeit not far from home, at the Sharks.

White added: "If this ( game between third to sixth in the standings) is purely a money-making device, surely it would be preferable for the teams that finish one and two to go straight to a final. They could play home and away so they would both have to travel."

But as the former Springbok coach touched upon, this extra round is of course a money spinner for the competition. Yet with the glass half full, why shouldn't those franchises who finished in fifth and sixth place have a crack at what on paper is looking like the impossible. Naturally the Chiefs, Highlanders and also the Sharks and Brumbies who travel into this full of optimism, but history and statistics are very much against them.

Super Rugby play-offs since 2004

2004: Three home wins in knockouts - Brumbies won title after finishing top of table
2005: Three home wins in knockouts - Crusaders won title after finishing top of table
2006: Three home wins in knockouts - Crusaders won title after finishing top of table
2007: Two home wins, one away in knockouts - Bulls won title after finishing second
2008: Three home wins - Crusaders won title after finishing top in regular-season
2009: Three home wins - Bulls won title after finishing top in regular-season
2010: Three home wins - Bulls won title after finishing top in regular-season

2011 (new format): Four home wins, one away - Reds won title after finishing top of table
2012: Three home wins, two away - Chiefs won title after finishing second but hosted final
2013: Four home wins, one away - Chiefs won title after finishing top in regular-season.

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jul 2014, 20:51
#2
25 Jul 2014, 20:51#2
Sounds like sour grapes after he has had to do the travelling two years in a row.
The regular season games have to mean something which is reflected in the seedings and home field advantage, but at the same time playoff rugby produces some absolutely fantastic rugby - more often than not the best of the competition. Look at the games the past weekend, what is upcoming and the possible final matchups. 
Current format takes both aspects into consideration. A 1 vs 2 playoff series wouldn't have the same drama.
Sharks have no one to blame but themselves after losing to Stormers because of some last minute dumb rugby and then Cheetahs because of poor selection.

GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
25 Jul 2014, 20:52
#3
25 Jul 2014, 20:52#3
 Jke is right supe rugby format is total shit. no sour grapes hes been saying this since 2012, even s bit before when he wasnt coaching anybody. but sharks can win this one. a tough ask at this stage of the whored out competition but they have the ability. may the best team win!
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jul 2014, 20:54
#4
25 Jul 2014, 20:54#4
Amazing how quickly White changed his tune after saying this about three weeks earlier:
"Finishing first is now out of the Sharks’ hands due to the Waratahs’ comprehensive 44-16 win over the Highlanders in Sydney on Sunday morning, clinching top spot on the combined log with a game in hand.

White was confident that teams did not need to finish first or second to guarantee themselves an opportunity to win the competition. After all, he took the Brumbies to last year’s final on the back of a third-place log finish while the Sharks reached the 2012 final even though they finished sixth.

"Everyone assumes that if you finish third in the competition going into the play-offs, you have got absolutely no chance; you may as well call off the competition when the teams finish first and second," White said.

"This team has won the conference, they have 46 points and still have a chance of getting a home semifinal but if it doesn’t happen, it’s only the first year. Everybody is so negative about the fact that ‘gee, they can’t win the competition anymore’. I still think we have a massive chance of winning this competition and I still believe we can."

GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
25 Jul 2014, 20:56
#5
25 Jul 2014, 20:56#5
 mind games oimatey, dont let it fly over your head.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jul 2014, 20:58
#6
25 Jul 2014, 20:58#6
  "Jke is right supe rugby format is total shit."
Enjoy it while you can because it only gets worse in 2016.
Super 12 was ideal, but there is no going back.

GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
25 Jul 2014, 20:59
#7
25 Jul 2014, 20:59#7
 super 10 but yeah 12 too.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jul 2014, 21:06
#8
25 Jul 2014, 21:06#8
He's wrong about the playoffs. Its the best compromise given the # of teams. Can't be helped that the competition is played on different continents.
The end result was this was a great Super 15 season with some awesome rugby. Even the "dud" matchups like the Lions vs Cheetahs produced some really entertaining sport.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Jul 2014, 21:30
#9
25 Jul 2014, 21:30#9
 Oimatey the wart and crusties never played eachother. If the had the crusties would be thi rd. The comp as it stands is compromised.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jul 2014, 21:39
#10
25 Jul 2014, 21:39#10
Sharks also got to play 4 of the bottom 7 teams twice. Fate was in their hands.
Not saying the current version is perfect - as I said above preferred the Super 12.


MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
25 Jul 2014, 21:59
#11
25 Jul 2014, 21:59#11
"Sharks also got to play 4 of the bottom 7 teams twice. Fate was in their hands."
and dont forget they played the blues, reds and rebels too.

thats 11 games played against 7th or lower based teams.

11 games from 16 matches.

but u can only play with whats in front of u, and its not the sharks fault the SA conference is the easiest conference in the world.
but the brand of rugby that SA play, does have a huge part to play, only capable of of getting a 4 try bonus point two times the entire season despite the buffet of easy opponents.

sharks are still a good team despite all that though, but the finals is where only the best of the best play, and while i think beating the crusaders is improbable, its not impossible with the team that white selected.
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
25 Jul 2014, 22:14
#12
25 Jul 2014, 22:14#12
 Waratahs had it easy, all their biggest wins were against minnows. bogus system. but its what aussies wanted. never let thiefs run anything they will cheat you every time for sure.
PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
26 Jul 2014, 04:05
#13
26 Jul 2014, 04:05#13
 White believes that his side can secure another win, against the odds, this weekend. "We're confident that if we play properly we can beat anyone anywhere and that's what you have to believe," he told New Zealand's Newswire.

The former Springbok coach expects a stronger challenge from the Crusaders, who have been bolstered by the inclusion of All Blacks Kieran Read, Dan Carter, Israel Dagg, Matt Todd and Dominic Bird in recent weeks.

"But in saying that we beat them last year in Durban and this year in Christchurch," added White.

"So in reality this group of players have won home and away and I'm sure we're looking forward to playing knock-out rugby again this weekend where the winner takes all."

White said his side's aim is to play to their strengths with their forwards hoping to repeat the dominant display which paved the way to victory over the Highlanders in their play-off last weekend.

"We're very dominant and orientated in our set piece, but we would like to believe there is more to our game," he explained.

"But knockout rugby is about playing to your strengths. The Crusaders are one of the most conservative teams but they are consistently the best of all five New Zealand franchises."

The Sharks used their infamous strangling tactics to squeeze out a victory against the odds in Christchurch the last time these teams met, and with Pat Lambie back to complement Frans Steyn, the hosts know that offering opportunities to kick for goal or for territory will be fatal.

"We have spoken about that all week," Read toldstuff.co.nz

"They kick a lot of penalties and on the back of penalties they get field position with their line-out drives as well. I know it is going to be be a big test for us not to give them any free 'outs' there.

"We don't want to be giving away cheap penalties, really. We want to give nothing away to them because if we do he (Steyn) will just knock them over and keep the scoreboard ticking.

"I'm certainly expecting them to keep to their strengths which is their scrum, their line-out maul and knocking over penalties. I don't think too much will change.

"Hopefully if we have the conditions to suit us we will be able to play a bit of footy."

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
26 Jul 2014, 09:42
#14
26 Jul 2014, 09:42#14
I can see the sharks vs saders game go either way. 
Sharks could be flying high from their forward dominance (total) against the highlanders & with Lambie they could see some improvement  from the backs. Steyn's boot could be working & they rack up some three pointers.
Or Saders forwards hold their own & their backs are good enough to break the line & with Nadoldo scoring a few tries. I also can see Dagg having a big day as he has been given time to recover from his injuries & looked good last week. Carter, Reid & McCaw could also have big days.
So the game has plenty of suspense and even if the sharks start well the saders could still come back strong and win. This game has all the ingrediants of a thriller for us fans.
I am picking the saders by 7, go Saders!
PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
26 Jul 2014, 10:55
#15
26 Jul 2014, 10:55#15
 True that J_W.  Nadoldo could create havoc like Fekitoa and Ben Smith were a handful for the Forward dominated Sharks out wide,  I expect Dagg could create just as many problems for them if he decides to turn it up. 
Carters an intelligent All Black vet who will Challenge Sharks Steyn. Steyn has a different approach but just as dangerous. Slade will play a very important role for the Crusaders as well. I just hope his good form continues.
COME ON CRUSADERS!!!!
PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
26 Jul 2014, 17:06
#16
26 Jul 2014, 17:06#16
 Guess White was right after all. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
26 Jul 2014, 17:10
#17
26 Jul 2014, 17:10#17
 Papamoa: don't know why they even bothered flying out to NZ, lol
The fact is Jake White had a shot at getting home field advantage & blew it. Also, all coaches know how to get home field advantage & that if they win enough games they will get it. So he has nothing to gripe about?
PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
26 Jul 2014, 17:23
#18
26 Jul 2014, 17:23#18
 indeed SR stats continue. No one has won it outside of the top two placing. At least thats what I've been lead to believe.
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