Sharks /Stormer player ratings

Ludik 6, Joe 5

JP 6 , Aplon 4

Jordaan 6, Jean 5

Frans 4, de Allende 6

Mvovo 7, Habana 5

Lambie 5, Jantjies 3

Reinach 5, Groom 6

Kankowski 5 , Vermeulen 7

Deysel 7, Elstadt 6

Coetzee 5, Kolisi 6

Franco 4, Bekker 7.

Bresler 6, Steenkamp 6

Jannie 6, Malherbe 4

Burden 5, Fourie 5

Beast 7, Kitshoff 5

Not a lot of texture in those ratings. Some players did a bit better than others. On balance I thought the Sharks had a backline edge and an edge in the front row. The Stormers were better at lock and in the back row.

To me the two noteworthy negative performances belonged to Jantjies and poor Fransie who just can't beat a tackle. Today Groom brought him down easily on the full charge. Toothless is the word that comes to mind.

Not bad Moz except De Allende did little to be on par with JP or Ludik. Even Jordaan for that matter so I will put him at a 4. Frans was slightly better than a 4 as he relieved some pressure with kicks and some nice takes under the high ball. 5.5 for him.

No ways was Franco worse that Burden, lets switch their ratings and Kankowski was at least a 6.5 based on your ratings.

Well BL I'm not a de Allende fan, but we disagree on him tonight and Fransie. I thought de Allende managed a few decent runs in heavy traffic.

I really enjoy KanKan, but the match tonight suited Deysel and Vermeulen more than Kankowski. I wish the coaches would encourage Ryan to play more of a Big Joe game, where his pace would be an asset. If you are just going to use the guy in the trenches, he wont excel.

Frans and Franco 4 and Bekker 7? Come again?

 Moz, what I like to do before even thinking about posting player ratings is watch the game for a second time.

When you watch it live, the result is an unknown so you sort of favour the team you support and are constantly nervous in tight games so not watching anything too in depth. I bet if we watch that game again, knowing the result and that wont change, player ratings will differ from that you have already posted. As a whole, I fail to see Bekker as a 7. Even Kolisi as a 6 rating. I reckon Franco did well in the tight loose. Will probably be best to watch the game again but frankly, I do not wish to watch a game like that again. Maybe if I am having trouble sleeping tonight I will put it on to hopefully help me fall asleep. Boring!

Mozart

Where do you got the ratings from?  In essence I agree with the ratings.  I have never seen a worse match than was the case with the Stormers and Sharks tonight.   Is there any players that can catch a ball or has that gone out of the window?

I must say that I do think there is a major problem in the Sharks backline.   Last year they had an excellent backline that could play decent running and attacking rugby.  In the two games thus far the backline was largely disfunctional.

In the game Jordaan got the ball three times only and did something extra with it every time.   Neither Mvovo or Pietersen  ever got a ball from a full backline movement.   I am watching Francois Steyn very carefully.  He actually killed the backline tonight - bad news for the Sharks.   He does not want to pass balls - try unsuccessfully to beat tackles.   He ran over Jantjies tonight - but that is easy to do - Jantjies cannot do face to face tackles.

I actually think that De Allende had a better game than Steyn had today - but Saffex will obviously differ from us.   You will definitely hear from him again on that one - he will have a seizure about the ratings this time around - normally he says ratings is everything - but this time around he would not accept the ratings similar to his non-acceptance of stats. .

By the way I do not think De Villiers should play at 13 - he is a much better 12 than 13  

BL if one has the luxury to watch a second time, that's advisable. I'm lucky if the internet is kind enough to let me see it once.

I have a low level of commitment to the Franco number, it's just an impression. Bekker is a bit different, he was agile enough to pull down Jordaan from behind once....beat tackles in one good run and snaffled some lineout ball. Those short Sharks lineouts to the Beast, were a compliment to Steenkamp and particularly Bekker. And I liked the way Andries ripped Coetzee back with one arm.

Mike those were just my personal ratings....for what they are worth. The main point is, there wasn't much in it, player wise. And I agree that Jean has become a 12 during the 7 years he has played in that position. He seems out of the game at 13....which is partially his fault. I still believe he rides the tackle and offloads better than any other SA back.

But we need more movement and guile. It's all too predictable.

 Agree with Mike here. Perhaps we should return to the pairing last year of Whitehead and Jordaan once Whiteheads arm heals. Frans just does not seem to be up to much these days. May take him a few games to get back into the swing of Super rugby but he is not a terribly great threat in the midfield. I had higher expectations. Perhaps Whitehead will free Jordaan up a bit ala Sharks vs Reds last year in the playoffs and get our outside backs more involved.

Sharkbok

Perhaps Plumtree made a mistake by making Steyn the captain in the absence of Daniel - it turned him into someone trying to do verything himself and being unsuccesful in that.  He hogged balls last night and was in fact the same in both games.

I know that most people do not rate players based on the Fantasy rugby ratings - but the ratings are in fact significant.    The Test Rugby results are out and  it is really interesting and in a way confirm Mozarts ratings: I think we could mention the following ratings:-

Jantjies

 Rating in Round 2  -        -20 points

 Rating in Round 3  -         10 points 

Overall the rating for Round 2 was detrimentally affected by his poor kicking at goal and his other aspects of the game was better than it was in Round 3.   He in fact in general performance went backwards  instead of forwards. 

Francois Steyn

Rating in Round 2 -            75  points

Rating in Round 3 -          115 points

Damian De Allende

Rating in Round 2 -           120 points

Rating in Round 3 -           200 points

Jean De Villiers

Rating in Round 2 -           185 points

Rating in Round 3 -             60 points

Paul Jordaan

Rating in Round 2 -            110 points

Rating in Round 3 -            120 points

The above point allocations largely confirm the situation stated by Mozart, namely that -

 *     That Jantjies was putrid in both games and in some respects  in general play worse than he was in Round 2;

 *     De Allende performed better in both Rounds than Frncois Steyn did - especially in Round 3; and

*      Jordaan was considerably better than De Villiers in Round 3 .

Both the center combinations were comparatively poor compared to especially the New Zealand centers and I would suggest that in the case of the Stormers -

*     The negative Jantjies factor be eliminated;

*     De Villiers be moved to 12; and

*     De Allende be played at 13

I would not play De Jongh at 13 - he is acceptable in defence - but a nil-factor in attack.

I would also suggest hat Francois Steyn be told that he is no good in starving the outside players from getting the ball and start passing it and not contnue to crashball continously.   If he continues to disrupt backline play the way he does - I would replace him with Bosman until Whitehead is fit to take over.

The first two games to my mind prove two things, namely -

*   that Steyn did not change much from what he was in 2012 for both the Sharks and the Springboks; and

*   that the Stormers should get rid of Janties asap - he is aboslutely clueless and comes with a huge amount of negative baggage.

 I am no expert just a amature who played the game in the dust but I look at the players and compare them to my own frame of reference and memory of great players.

This Mozart guy seems to know some stuff when he not fighting with everyone else.

Ludik 6, Joe 5  (I think both must be 5 Ludic did a little more but made no points for his team)

JP 6 , Aplon 4

Jordaan 6, Jean 5

Frans 4, de Allende 6 (Neither impressed at all - genadeold Wynand was better on the day)

Mvovo 7, Habana 5 (Some nice touches but Mvovo is a banggat)

Lambie 5, Jantjies 3

Reinach 5, Groom 6

Kankowski 5 , Vermeulen 7

Deysel 7, Elstadt 6 (Deysel was marginally better than Vermeulen so if V=7 then D=8)

Coetzee 5, Kolisi 6 (One as ineffective as the other 5 each)

Franco 4, Bekker 7. (If bekker was playing at 12 I agree - he in the back too much like Bobby was)

Bresler 6, Steenkamp 6 (Steenkamp had his best game in a long time,nê)

Jannie 6, Malherbe 4

Burden 5, Fourie 5 (This fourie guy needs to control his anger - even at the ref some referee will chase him off for backchatting)

Beast 7, Kitshoff 5 (Following the trend you used then Kitshoff should get the same as Maherbe 4)

Neither team impressed and will be put to the knife by the Blues, Chiefs, Brumbies etc if based on this performances.

Mozart

The following stats on Steyn and De Allende for the two games they played in are interesting:-

Steyn

Linebreaks                               -        0

Going forward (crashballing)   -        8 

Tackles                                   -         9

Penalty given away                -         1

Losing possession                  -         2

De Allende

Line breaks                             -         1

Going forward (Chrasballing)  -         9

Tackles                                   -          9

Penalties                                -          0

Losing possession                 -          0

From the above it is clear that De Allende did perform better than Steyn in the two games played.  I wonder what the figures would have looked like if De Allende did play outside a decent flyhalf?   At least Steyn had Lambie on his inside - De Allende had the catastrophic Earl Silky Hands Jantjies to content with.

Saffex will scream blue murder - but the above are real facts and figures.

Mozart

The following stats on Steyn and De Allende for the two games they played in are interesting:-

Steyn

Linebreaks                               -        0

Going forward (crashballing)   -        8 

Tackles                                   -         9

Penalty given away                -         1

Losing possession                  -         2

De Allende

Line breaks                             -         1

Going forward (Chrasballing)  -         9

Tackles                                   -          9

Penalties                                -          0

Losing possession                 -          0

From the above it is clear that De Allende did perform better than Steyn in the two games played.  I wonder what the figures would have looked like if De Allende did play outside a decent flyhalf?   At least Steyn had Lambie on his inside - De Allende had the catastrophic Earl Silky Hands Jantjies to content with.

Saffex will scream blue murder - but the above are real facts and figures.

 Moz your ratings are wrong.

Joe was pathetic at 15, he deserves a 3. Aplon to, was poor and should get a 3

Jean had another no show and deserves a 4. Frans was the best of the centres and deserves a 6. Jordaan did very little and I'd give him a 5

Lambie was no better than Jantjies - both get 5's.

Elstadt was as good as Deysel

Bresler was better than Steenkamp

Malherbe was far better than a 4........both Kitshoff and Malherbe, did better than the week before and for the most put up a good showing against the Bok incumbents.

Saffex

I have learnt one thing from you and that is to accept that whatever ratings you give to players would be totally opposite to what they actually did on the field of play.   Steyn was deinitekly inferior to De Allende and managed to destroy the usually potent Shark backline.   I would give him 3 because he managed to take the sting out of the backline completely.  Jordaan - with the minimal balls he receivd tried his utmost to get some backline moves going - but Steyn generally crashballed since De Allende stopped him in his tracks every time he ran straight at him.

Aganst the weaker teams in the warm up games he showed some improvement on what he was in 2012 - the past two weeks it was crashballing virtually all the time.

And giving Jantjies a 5 - I now know what your problem is -you know bugger-nothing of back line play if what Jantjies produced yesterday is regarded by you as a five - he was desperately poor and a 4 was being generous.