Shockingly bad from the Boks...moz rates them

Yes we won, but if Keith Earls got the pass away at the death Ireland would have scored. Faf saved two certain tries. My ratings:
Willie 3 .....almost irrelevant, close to a red card.
Combrink 6....crucial penalty, fine clearances.
Mapoe 2....not a test player
Allende 5.....made 10 of his 11 tackles, but clueless on attack
JP 6....solid stuff from JP, the try, and took away the Mvovo high ball tactic
Jantjies 5....poor defence yielding a try, pin point kick for JP, couldn't spark the run
Faf 8....MOM
Beast 7....turned around the Bok scrum
Strauss 7....fine lineout throws, a great steal and part of a strong scrum
Malherbe 6....scrums better when we are going forward
Etzebeth 6....not explosive but hard work, money in the lineout
Stephanie 6... involved but physically not imposing....monstered by Stumpkar.
Louw 6.....excellent steal, lots of tackles
Kolisi 5....low tackle count, Zero ball carries....pathetic commentator hype
Whiteley 6...loads of tackles, ineffective as a ball carrier
Redlinghuis 6....better than last week
Kitshoff 7.....huge scrum where he literally lifted the whole right side of Ireland
The rest were on too late to rate. But overall this team is looking ineffective....relying on luck and just hanging on. The 10/12/13 axis is toothless.

 Willie was not nearly as bad as you make him out to be!Mapoe. The doubts are there. has done very little in three tests. But wonder if he would do better with Van rensburg at 12? I think Venter may be a better bet. He is a very clever player and great distributor. Jantjes is a mixed bag. Let him and lambie fight it out but Pollard is the man .Snyman maybe worth bringing in. 
Loose forwards are a mess. Kolisi not good enough. Like to see Du Preez brought in.Also Marx and Akkers in the mix at hooker. Kitshoff was huge. Scrumming great and workrate sublime. Redlinghys is underrated.So will we see our best match 23 selected. Its looking very doubtful. Its really funny to hear the kbbs chest beating and going on when they beat a quota selected team.
Pick the right pack and we will munch the pap wee abs!

 Willie was worthless, I agree with Moz. He almost cost the Boks the game on several occasions & in this game these mistakes were not offset by positive plays.

 6Francois Louw13217Siya Kolisi7218Warren Whiteley22--
20Jaco Kriel611
Kriel was on the field for less than Kolisi but his defensive stats were almost the same.
On offense only Whiteley did anything of note, so I would rank Whiteley above Louw.

 Louw did a lot of grunt work. 
Whitely, Kriel and Du toit at 7 is worth a shot.

 Rugby365 ratings from Jan de Koning.

Jan de Koning rates the South African players:

15 Willie le Roux:
Still erratic and way off his best. Arguably he was fortunate not to have been red-carded when he collided with an Irishman in the air.
5/10

14 Ruan Combrinck:
His kicking out of hand is so valuable and under-utilised. Still raw and makes mistakes, but committed and skilful.
6/10

13 Lionel Mapoe:
Tried harder, but still making mistakes - missing tackles and conceding turnovers. Lots of hard work awaits if he wants to retain his place.
5/10

12 Damian de Allende:
From the sublime to the ridiculous - missed tackles, conceded a penalty and also tested the Irish's defensive lines.
6/10

11 JP Pietersen:
Not flawless, but the ball he collected from the air at full-speed one the stroke of half-time was from the top shelf and a crucial score.
7/10

10 Elton Jantjies:
A horror show with the occasional moment of magic thrown in. Another player who may face the axe when the Rugby Championship arrives.
3/10

9 Francois de Klerk:
That second-half intercept near his own tryline, leaping in the air and the spot-tackle to stop a certain try makes him South Africa's most valuable player. That is not even taking into account the rest of his game, which was not too shabby either.
9/10

8 Warren Whiteley:
Not flawless by any means, but he made 22 tackles - the most of any player in the game - and had a couple of decent carries.
7/10

7 Siya Kolisi:
Bounced back from last week's poor display and will grow into his role as a blindside flanker.
6/10

6 Francois Louw:
Probably his best performance of the series and while he still looked a touch off the pace, showed glimpses of the form that can make him a feature in the openside role.
6/10

5 Pieter-Steph du Toit:
His workrate is simply phenomenal, with more than just a handful of carries and his tackle count (15) only beaten by that of Whiteley.
7/10

4 Eben Etzebeth:
Like his lock partner he did enormous work on defence, but overall his workrate can improve.
6/10

3 Frans Malherbe:
Better than the first two Tests, especially in the scrums, but still not at an acceptable level.
5/10

2 Adriaan Strauss (captain):
Let's just say that the standard of his game is NOT acceptable for a Springbok captain.
5/10

1 Tendai Mtawarira:
His ball-carrying improved and his defence was solid - when he tackled.
6/10

Replacements:

16 Bongi Mbonambi (on for Strauss, 79th min):
Not enough time to be rated.

17 Steven Kitshoff (on for Mtawarira, 57th min):
Massive scrum first up and made all his tackles. Not chances with ball in hand.
6/10

18 Julian Redelinghuys (on for Malherbe, 57th min):
Made a huge statement in his first scrum and also made all his tackles.
6/10

19 Franco Mostert (on for Etzebeth, 74th min):
Not enough time to be rated.

20 Jaco Kriel (on for Kolisi, 60th min):
Brought some energy in his cameo, but mostly forced to defend in the final quarter.
6/10

21 Rudy Paige:
Not used.

22 Morné Steyn:
Not used.

23 Lwazi Mvovo:
Not used.

 Kitshoff was better than Beast.
Malherbe better this week than last week. Eben instructed to give him more support in the scrums?
Agree with Moz on Willie.
Good performance again from Whitely, but does he have a problem with his shoulder?
Faf was also my MOM.

 

Mozart

I took everything into account – not only single incidents:-

15   -   Le Roux        =   3

14   -   Combrinck   =   7

13   -    Mapoe        =    3

12   -    De Allende  =    5.5

11   -    Pietersen     =    4

10   -    Jantjies        =     3,5

  9   -    De Klerk       =     7

  8  -     Whiteley     =     5,5

  7  -     Kolisi            =     3

  6  -     Louw           =      3,5

  5  -     Du Toit        =      6,5

  4  -     Etzebeth     =       6

  3  -    Malherbe    =       6

  2  -    Strauss         =      5,5

  1  -    Beast            =      6,5

 17 -    Kitshoff       =       7

 18 -   Redlinghuys  =     6

 20 -   Kriel                -      6

I did not rate Mostert and Mbonambi – they had very little actual playing time. 

Our two flank forwards were a special gift to the Irish – they were viciously poor.    Jantjie made so many aimless kicks – I stopped counting.   His main idea was t o hand over possession to the Irish and allow them to counter-attack.   He was not a  pivot’s backside - must have been taking lessions from Morne about aimless kicks.   Luckily none  of the three bench players in the backline were used.     

Backrow balance is off. Kolisi is a passenger. Whiteley has a huge workrate but little impact. Louw does a genie act, appearing and disappearing at various stages of the game.
10-12-13, as you said, nothing going on. 
Willie has always walked a fine line on the liability/asset scale. It's tipping the wrong way now bigtime.
Our locks are okay. We can push a competitive front row onto the pitch. The wings are decent. Scrumhalf fine.
As a unit, the team is nowhere. This was, bar a few players, a second string Irish side playing in our backyard. And we needed a moment (make that two) of brave, smart and bold defence from a rookie scrumhalf to save our bacon. Not to mention that horrible pass from the Irish 13 when they had an open line. Three clearly manufactured scoring chances gone.
In contrast, we created very few scoring opportunities. The Jantjies/JP moment was great, but it makes for a lone beacon in a sea of mediocrity.

 Willie didn't do anything on the park to earn 3, they must be style points for managing to get himself out there with his boots and jersey on. He needs to drop out of the 23 till he regains form.

 If you launch a thousand ships er chips, you are bound to connect once in a while. That's a far cry from the influential flyhalf play we have seen in the other tests. 
The standard in the Pom/Oz series was one level above our tests....which has to result in an improved Oz team. In spite of their three losses I'm afraid we are well behind Oz at this point. NZ has just opened up the gap further.

Of the new players I'm now convinced that Combrink will serve us well. Faf will still  be learning  in the RC, but he showed today he is a competitor and reads the game well.
Redlinghuis is still unclear....Kitshoff was the force in the scrums they both contested. Kitshoff would walk most test teams.
Mostert and Whiteley have played well, but unfortunately physicality remains an issue. Of the two Whiteley has the best shot.
Mapoe is not a test centre and the  occasional special Jantjies touch is unlikely to offset the poor defence and inability to impose himself on the game. His goal kicking is a match by match lottery.
Kolisi disappears at S15 level. In spite of the commentary hype he was close to irrelevant today.
If all that's true and it's just one man's opinion....there are potentially 5 or so positions that might change before the RC, an awful lot for a team that already looks clueless and uncoordinated.

 Congrats on umm not losing anyways .Moz he may as well have launched those ships ,err chips with his face for all the good it does !

 Le Roux, once again shows why he is overrated and should be dropped from the squad, Kolisi is not test standard, Jantjies, aside from passing the ball has little presence in his position....the Bok backline is non existent. There is no mongrel in the second row, it's needs an enforcer.

 Just watched the replay. Boks did just enough to win but lack of possession was a killer. Although Ireland did not make headway a lot of the time they managed to hold on to the ball for long periods of play which frustrated the Boks.I can't remember the Boks ever going through more than 3 phases without either kicking it away or losing the ball. No wonder the backs can't get any rhythm!Of the new boys, Combrink did not get to see the ball today, Whiteley looked a poor version of a fit Vermeulen and Kriel didn't do much.Hard for any of the new boys to shine really with so little possession.

Good spot WD. Interestingly 'the face' is  not Greek at all but from Dr Faustus by Christopher Marlowe....the writer that some think used Shakespeare as an alias. 
Moola if I'm reading the chart correctly Ireland had possession of the ball in our half for 48% of the match. Stunning! 

 I'd take Mozart and Mike's ratings and average the two, seems about where I would place most of the players.
Each person on here tthat played the game will in all probability look at the game from his playing-position and evaluate accordingly. For example I would not be able to rate Willy effectively because I have never played in that last-outpost position; but I have a fair understanding of what the fool should do.  One of the things is not to go jumping on top of a player in the air.  Time your run, watch the ball strike when he lands and tackle the ball - much more effective than plying basket ball in the air with no certainty of possession. Le Roux is also guilty of kicking away good posession when other options are available - he was instrumental in giving the ball away with his little silly kick which gave possession to the Irish on a silver platter.
Hell, I hope I am wrong, but this "Springbok" team seems to play a very similar pattern to the Stormers in the time that AC was the headless coach.
Before your become provincialism clouds your judgement, evaluate the play.  The Bokke are much more focused on a defensive game!  The possession stats already tell you half the story.  We are not very effective at slowing down their possession, not really stealing ball.  Our follow-up from the loosies is slow and ineffective thus the odd player that does break the line and gets tackled behind the "line" ends up in no mans land with very little support - he then has to hang on for that few seconds too long and the opposition effectively get "credit" and we are left defending once again.
I fail to understand why you play a pivot with effectively one-hand?  It was quite evident that Jantjies was favouring the hand in the defensive work subsequently becoming doormat for the Irish player to run over and score.
Seldom if ever have I had the misfortune to listen to commentators a$$creep and fathom up "wonderful" absolute bull$hit about an ineffective useless player who is in the team for very obvious reasons - other than his ability to play at this level - shocking.  It is also these fools who select / pick a MOM using a similar bull$hit criterion. No, JP was not bad but clearly did not have a consistent effect on the game-outcome.  His try was well worked, but what if that kick was skew?  Would he have had any other really outstanding moments? - Funny how Jean could kerfuffle on-and-on about the one mistake by Faf, as if he was a very good 9... in his day! A better performance by most players - but the Springboks are miles from where they need to be and I am starting to wonder if the collective bunch of players and managing coaches can effect that!
Kitshoff is becoming a world-class player in his own right, I was impressed by his work rate and technique! 
The backline is a shambles - we need a trainer/coach with innovative ideas - the Irish showed the Springboks how it could be done, running into the gaps and not the defender...
The Springboks won and South Africa are happy but many a rugby scribe and pundit (more like idjit)  are celebrating a win and forgetting about the mediocre performance by many ...  

Mach, the stats support your statement:
"Hell, I hope I am wrong, but this "Springbok" team seems to play a very similar pattern to the Stormers in the time that AC was the headless coach."
I said as much on another thread. Ireland had 69% of the ball and Boks did bugger all on attack:150 meters on 61 carries; 1 try 4 defenders beaten. 1 clean break, etc.
On defence boks stats were: 151 tackles 18 missed; only 3 turnovers.
So yes, looks like the old stormers game plan.

 Jantjies is killing backline play, not like we have a decent midfield for h im to work with, but I suspect we'll be better with Bambie back.

 Let me explain one thing - In one move De Allende at speed ran at an angle.  Jantjies did not pass the ball to him - but to Mapoe, who got tackled and as a result a penalty was given to the Irish when Mapoe hung unto the ball.   It clearly was a practised move sabotaged by Jantjies.  My other main problem was that 80% of the time Jantjies launched aimless kicks down the middle of the field allowing the Irish to counter-attack.   In the end Combrinck had to make relieving kicks - since Jantjies was so useless in the relevant regard.   I think the series proved one thing - Jantjies cannot take the step up from Super Rugby to test rugby.  Meantime Goosen had a massive game in the Top 14 final and there is - with the RC looming - only two realistic options open in the absence of Pollard - namely to utilize Lambie and Goosen as flyhalfs - bearing in mind that Goosen can play at full back and center as well.            

 Jantjies was executing a game plan, it looked like a stormers of old game plan to me , i.e. no emphasis on attack but emphasis on defence. Get the penalties and get your points that way. I think whoever starts at 10 will have to implement the same game plan. 

 JW -  game plan in fact or no game plan?  I think the latter is in evidence. 

 CleverMike, yes it's still not clear what Coetzee's game plan is but the stats suggest he was using an old stormers game plan.

 JW - probably - but that game plan was a disaster - especially when executed poorly.  I was afraid it was going to happen with the appointment of Coetzee and the three tests thus far proved it.  In the last 20 minutes in the Johannesburg test I think the players took it into their own hands - hence the winning result.  However, that would not happen normally - so we have a problem developing.      

 Well at least the Boks have won 2 out of three under a new coach & the biggest bleater on this forum has stopped blaming the ref
IMO Boks have a long way to go but at least progress is evident, the wailing after 2 or 3 loses would have been unbearable. Maybe you all would have wised up & become AB supporters Of course we would have to have a referendum in NZ to see if this was acceptable & some may have called for erecting  a wall as that seems to be the solution to all problems these days

 JW the ref was acceptable. Its amazing how these bent down under refs give the game away. If they don't have to ref Sa versus NZ or Oz thye show they are acceptable. However if it is SA verus nz or Oz they become biased fiends!Sa fans get ready to be blown out of the game yet again.

Mike our big problem is our quota coach and his quota selections. If the wee abs had all this nonsense they would drop out of the top 10 for sure.

Coetzee certainly implemented a red zone, orange zone, yellow zone and green zone game plan yesterday. Problem was that the Boks can't seem to trust their starting loosies to win their own ball back. For me, a major part of the issue in these last three games was a lack of dominance up front. Granted the Irish are well drilled, seem very focused on disrupting rucks and gang tackle quite well. Still, Strauss and Louw are blatant issues for me. They are too slow. And get to too few rucks. Louw has managed two steals in three games. Does he qualify as a fetcher? Of the current squad, I would have started with the front row that finished the game. Reds and the soulless ginger ninja are clearly better than Malkop and Beast. Strauss needs to go. Bring back Bizmark and make Marx his understudy now. Anything else is a waste of time. I also feel Akker will be a great replacement for Strauss. He has pace, is hungry and gets to many more rucks than a hooker should. Skara would also be better. I feel that Strauss is fat and lazy and sets a SHYTE example for the rest of the pack. The back line struggled, but with 30 something % possession, and with 50% of that 30% being gobbled up by the forwards...what do we expect from them? Sure there were some individual errors from the backs. But i feel they are being hard done by in a shit game plan that is being executed poorly by the forwards. People assume that the Lions dominate the other SA teams due to playing expansive rugby. That's only half of the story. The only reason they are able to do so is because they have slightly smaller forwards who dominate like monsters at ruck time and secure quick ball that gets the opposition on the back foot and opens gaps for Jantjies and co to exploit. And they do it week and week out. It's no bloody mystery. So, if you are supposedly the best in the land, then we expect at least the same from you as we get from the Lions. That's your fkijg starting point. If you can't deliver it then please Fk off. Maybe it's Akkers. Maybe it's because he has played at the highest level and knows what is possible and thus there isn't much room for bullshyte when he coaches you. Either way, this forward pack need to wake the hell up or go back to their clubs. It's fucking disgraceful. It's not Bok rugby. I rewatched some Lions games last night(yes i have no life). I did so specifically to compare rucks and counter rucks. The difference between the Boks and the Lions at securibg ball is not a difference, it's a gaping fking chasm. And sorry Strauss, but blame your example for this mostly. The Lions dominated your Bulls team up front because you lead by shit example and the Irish did the same...for the same reason. The only thing that stops you getting to a ruck early is...yeah that's tight, you!!! It drives me fking mad that guys will pull that jersey over their heads and take it for granted. I wish we'd have lost yesterday. It feels like we did. That marginal win only glossed over major issues.

 Beeno congrats a your maturation process, your usual excuses are evolving & becoming nuianced; eg it is not always the refs fault & there has been no mention of "winning" while ignoring the scoreboard. The years I have spent explaining these matters seemed to have had a positive result. Some might say this change is a result of finding new excuses but I prefer to remain positive. I suggest you engage wee Trad in debates on these new excuses
Boks will improve as they get comfortable with the new system. Players like wee Eben will find his mojo & when pollard gets back this will help. You still have to find outside backs but Combrinck has potential. Wee willy needs to learn how to play with him like Dagg & B. Smith do.

Winning yesterday and winning the series....feels more like losing. We never played rugby yesterday. We stopped Ireland from playing rugby and scored a try off a set move. 

We beat 5 defenders and made 1 clean break. If you told me we could win a test making 1 clean break, I would have said you were smoking one of Plum's specials.

I don't understand why our rugby scribes are talking about changes as if a bit of fine tuning is required....this team is nowhere. The tight play improved, the lineout is decent.....nothing else is. Hell Luke Marshall beat as many defenders in one run as the Bok team did all game.

Stunningly poor.

 for once, you are right, mozart,...... very poor performance by the boks

Great posts by Plum and Mack.
Yes Lions rugby is the way to go. However can Alistair understand this rugby and implement it. I doubt it he is a quota coach.
Does our quota coach want to pick a merit side and is he in fact able to do so. On both counts probably not.
However lets not stop there. The Bulls, the Sharks and Stormers with all their money and talent cant compete against the Lions. A side built up from scratch from nobodies who became somebodies due to a superb coaching effort and sound investment in players. As money flows into the coffers of the Lions they can build depth and eventually win the Super Comp IF they can keep their players from moving overseas (Another sore point) .
Personally I wish the Lions every success and will in future support them against the Stormers and their quota run show. The Lions give lie to the myth that all we can do is rolling mauls and up and unders. Anybody knowing anything about rugby knows we never used to play the game this way and we had the number of the hapless wee abs over a period of decades.

 What i find most interesting is that even when we played WELL below par, we still managed to beat a tight Irish outfit.

Well played boys.
Lets stick with this squad and let them continue to grow.
Only Kolisi should get the Axe. Great fella, useless international flank.
Mapoe... give him time to settle. If he hasnt cut it by EOYT, drop him. But he may be a quote player worth sticking with.

 I am afraid that the backline problem starts with Jantjies.   It may be the game plan = or lack of a real plan or it may be psychological - but Jantjies made aimless kicks 80% of the time in all three games - allowing for the Irish to counter-attack.   Matter of fact towards the end of the game the ball was passed to Combrinck to make relieving or penalty line kicks.   The fact of the matter is that if you do that against the AB's they will score plenty of tries against you. The Irish played an AB style of rugby against the deficient Springbok side - with serious deficiencies in their loose forward combination, while the Springboks - I nearly said the Stormers did under Coetzee in years gone by - played stampkar rugby.  The other issue remains our Loosie combination.  With the exception of Whiteley the team at present consist of pace deficient loosies - but our selectors select slow loosies and not getting anywhere in the process.  When Kriel came on towards the end of the game on Saturday - there was immediately more intensity in defense - but unfortunately there was no opportunity for him to become involved when the Springboks gained ball possession.                  

 Actually in the last crucial 5 minutes Kriel missed a tackle, Mostert was run over and Stephanie missed a tackle. Any of those missed tackles could have been fatal.  Our line speed is below par and our missed tackle ratio roughly double Ireland's.

Mozart 

J ust a question.   Any of the tackles missed could have been fatal - but it was not.  Plain fact is the loosies were the problem - why ignore that and go for Du Toit?  As per normal in the Irish series his performances were far better than Etzebeth - but you went for Du Toit - because he missed a txackle.  Is that not childish?

 How about the Hooker, Comrade? 
You know ... that useless Strauss who's destroyed every front row he's ever played in?
I see you're not blaming him any longer.
Why is that, DumbAssDoos???
Having difficulty getting both feet out your mouth??
Arsehole!!!!!!!!!





  
 

 The most worrying thing, IMO, is that this tour was supposed to sort out our side and prepare the team and have them sorted for the upcoming RC. Has AC achieved that? No ways.

 Strauss was given a better ratin g by me this test - but was he really up to standard?  I doubt it very much - biggest arsehole in the Universe. 

@Mike I sick to death of your exaggerating. Call this the end of my tether. You have never been to space so you cannot possibly know how big the biggest aresehole in the universe is :) I imagine it to be large. A Supermassive Brown Hole if you will.

 Plum - I am just responding to CC - he calls me an arsehole and I merely say if I am an arsehole - he is a bigger one.

CleverMike, are basing your assessment of CC on performance or reputat ion?