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FORUM / RUGBY /  Should De Allende be in the Springbok team and in which position

Should De Allende be in the Springbok team and in which position

Started by clevermike23 REPLIES329 VIEWS· 13 May 2014, 19:25
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 May 2014, 19:25
#1
13 May 2014, 19:25#1

In reading the following article I think that Meyer would really take note of the situation:- 


"Stormers assistant coach Robbie Fleck has backed in-form utility back Damian De Allende to challenge for a Springbok berth.

Blessed with size and strength, pace and an eye for a gap, the performances of De Allende have offered Allister Coetzee a rare positive as the Cape Town franchise suffered a testing start to their Super Rugby campaign.

Utilised chiefly on the wing, the Stormers' game-breaker enjoyed an eye-catching display in his side's 28-12 derby loss to the Bulls on Saturday, with that Loftus outing following a try-scoring show in their home win over the Highlanders a week earlier.

Inside centre is De Allende's preferred position, where logically he can force a greater impact on the game than out wide - the same slot taken by ex-Boks star Fleck during an impressive international career.

Fleck said the player's performances this season, wherever he has played, have been "phenomenal", and reckons that, with such versatility and dynamic go-forward, De Allende should be an attractive prospect to South Africa head coach, Heyneke Meyer.

With skipper Jean de Villiers nursing a shoulder knock, De Allende may be handed a start in his treasured number 12 jersey as the Stormers welcome the flying Force to Newlands on Saturday, especially since winger Kobus van Wyk is fit to take over out wide."

De Allende was phenomenal in his last few matches - if the following stats were taken into account:-

de Allende

2/2

10

6/24/47

260

7

11

6

7

4/1

0/0

0

0/0

 


In all four games De Allende played on the wing - but the best plays in which he played a crucial role is borne in mind - it was in midfield where he sets things going - not necessarily on the wing.

There is no SA backline player who can boast 2 tries and 2  try assists in 4 games.  He His passing stats also indicate that he was more in midfield than would normally be expected from a wing.  He carried the ball 47 times for a meter gain of 260 meters - ie a average of 5.5 meters per carry.  He made 7 line breaks beating 11 defenders and off-loaded the ball 6 times. 

Looking at the broader scenario I think that De Allende would do better at 13 than at 14 - and punt him for that position.  However, I think that De Villiers would rather like to play outside of him - bearing his line breaking and off-loading abilities in mind.  

  

.


AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
13 May 2014, 19:59
#2
13 May 2014, 19:59#2
 Yes I do like De Allende at #13 and I agree that De Villiers should play outside him.
OFF THE BENCH!!!!!!!!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 May 2014, 20:33
#3
13 May 2014, 20:33#3

de Allende should play 13.....he is not a 12 and is wasted on the wing

 

JJ and de Allende would be my options at 13 for the Boks  

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
13 May 2014, 21:16
#4
13 May 2014, 21:16#4
i really like de allende, but maybe fleck should just STFU, when ever he or any of those mongs running the stormers team says anything, logic dictates the safe bet would be to back the exact opposite.

but de allende does look the goods, 6ft4 and 105kgs with pace to burn.

i would have no problems playing him at 12 or the wing, the idea of de allende and jj in the midfield for the Boks would be IMO absolutely killer.
size with pace to burn could be a formidable weapon.

but given some of the talent already out there for the Boks like serfontein, i would most likely move de allende to the wing, where his form demands he make the starting XV.

my Bok backline at the moment,,,

9 f hougaard, 10 j potgieter

12 j serfontein, 13 jj englebrechett

11 d de allende, 15 p lambie, 14 w le roux

21 s prestorius, 22 j goosen, 22 f steyn

but its redundant thread, lets face it, meyer will select JDV and fourie for the centers, and de allende will be lucky to see any time in the Boks colours.
JDV and fourie, tsk tsk tsk, the rugby fan in me is hoping that meyer grows a brain and leaves those two deadbeats out of the equation, but the kiwi in me is getting ready to LMFAO at that hilarious ineffectual midfield pairing,
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
13 May 2014, 21:27
#5
13 May 2014, 21:27#5
 I have never felt comfortable with Bambie at #10 or #15.Have no problem with him playing off the bench as a sub/replacement later in the game if we are winning but other than that sorry not a starter.
Rory K is having a tremendous season once again in France.......do any of you guys rate him with a chance to get called up........or his name not South African enough?
Another wasted SA talent lost it appears.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 May 2014, 21:52
#6
13 May 2014, 21:52#6
For once I agree AJ, Rory is a hell of a player. He is a competitor, a guy who hates to lose....my kind of player. I think he is much better than Hougaard.
As far as De allendes stats are concerned, the one the Oom inadvertently highlighted is the tackling stat. This guy has made 4 tackles in his last three games. And over the season he has missed 18 per cent of his tackles....he tackles infrequently and without much success. Not good because playing the ABs your 13 has to tackle as we saw to our cost with JJ.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 May 2014, 22:58
#7
13 May 2014, 22:58#7
Mozart
How many balls reached wings that De Allende should tackle?   Caqn you just opebn your empty brain a bit and think for a change? 
You are talking BS again.  You punt Steyn all the time 0 he has agility I assume 0 and his tackle stats is much worse than De Allende.   
But I accept that attacking backline play is in your view an abomination and should never be considered.   What a load of utter bulllshit from you.        
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 May 2014, 23:32
#8
13 May 2014, 23:32#8

Look and learn moron

 

WKolbe0/004/7/7341002 7/00/010/0
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 May 2014, 00:50
#9
14 May 2014, 00:50#9
Mozart
Players playing on opposite sides of the field.  In some games players are targeted to run at and plays always seems to go in a specific areas of the field. 
Please try and get meaningful in your interpretation - are you saying De Allende did have tackles and he made NONE.  
Why must I try so hard to make you understand rugby?
I also checked other stats sources - but could not find anything on the tackle issue pertaining to De Allende/
For your information while checking the stats I came across the following summary on Francois Steynj kicks at goal:
*   Penalty and drop goal conversions  -   25*   Try Conversions                          -     7*   Missed kicks at goal                     -    15
Based on that his successful kick rate is  68%.   I thought he was in the 75 - 80% range - so easy to gain the wrong impression by purely watching games.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 May 2014, 01:09
#10
14 May 2014, 01:09#10
 Do you seriously believe all the rubbish you write.  First you say balls don't  reach wings for de Allende to tackle.... I mean forget about kick aheads etc. Then when I show you Kolbe made twice as any tackles in one game as deAllende made in 3  games, you come up with a totally unsubstantiated theory of direction of play.
You just suck it out of your  thumb....a totally dishonest prick who can never admit a mistake.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 May 2014, 01:32
#11
14 May 2014, 01:32#11
 Mozart
How do you account for the fact that De Allende made no tackles and missed none?  He did not go AWOL - he was too active for that in respect of other components of the game.  
Y ou really are a thick prick - can you ever think about an issue and state you own opinion - without using newspaper reports - or inventing false match descriptions? 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 May 2014, 03:12
#12
14 May 2014, 03:12#12
 How do I account for a player attempting no tackles when his opponent makes a clean break, beats three defenders and gains 35 metres in 6 carries?  I cant , but It would seem he is not trying very hard to make a tackle.
Flashdakota
FlashdakotaClub Pro805 posts
14 May 2014, 03:33
#13
14 May 2014, 03:33#13
 Absolutly.
One of SA's standout players this year.
He, along with JJ and JS are our future in the midfield.
I'd keep JDV at 12 with JJ at 13 and de allende on the bench for now.

Let us now forget that JDV and JJ combined really nicely last year. So lets not be too short sighted and forgetful, but i do like the thought of de allande in the mix.

9. de klerk (can not look further than him at the moment)
10. lambie
11. Habana / de allande
12. JDV
13. JJ
14. WLR
15. steyn

bench: hougaard, pollard (bold move, but 100% talent on the rise), de allende,  JP
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
14 May 2014, 04:14
#14
14 May 2014, 04:14#14
Screw De Allende. The real concern here is how many of you still select JJ at 13. Just serves to highlight how screwed we are currently at 13. What has JJ done in the past 2 years to warrant selection as the best 13 in his country? Jordaan has brief cameo's that offer more than JJ over 80 mins!
JJ is one if the weakest 13's in bok history currently! We have seen him and serfontein do fuck all for the Bulls for 2 years now! Don't say shit coz u read it in the paper. Yes, serfontein and JJ were meant to be our future and showed promise early on in their careers. Neither has delivered to date!
JDV is without a doubt, still by a long way, very long way, in fact not even in the same picture, our best 12. Just had to be clear on that!
At 13, our best looking prospect right now is Jordaan. Hopefully one of Small-Smith or someone come around because god knows it has not been serfontein or JJ!Open your eyes guys! These two pretenders could not take advantage of Peter Grant in the midfield! A guy that doesn't even play 12 vs our two best bok prospects. Fuck sakes man. Don't be fooled by what these two were meant to be vs what they are!
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
14 May 2014, 04:41
#15
14 May 2014, 04:41#15
 I tend to agree, JJ doesent seem to be an effective ball runner, more a link player and solid defender. Altho JJ missed that tackle on Barratt, thats nt why Sa lost, Nz had serious momentum, it was inevitable. I like the looks of serfeintain and jordaan. But Jdv and De Allende i agrew on, JJ was incumbant last year tho, and created a good combination with Jdv so prob stick with that. 
9. Hougard 10. Poltigieter11. De Allende 12. Jdv 13. JJ 14. Le Roux 15. Lambie
Prob gonna be
9. Du Preez 10. Steyn 11. Habana 12. Jdv 13. Fourie 14. Peterson 15. Lambie
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 May 2014, 04:42
#16
14 May 2014, 04:42#16
Yep that's pretty compelling logic BL. Sorry Flash The Bok  centre pairing ought to be  making a difference against S15 opposition.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 May 2014, 05:06
#17
14 May 2014, 05:06#17
 Mozart
Who made the clean breaks you are quoting above?   Would like to know since your info is as untrustworthy as you are.     


BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
14 May 2014, 05:12
#18
14 May 2014, 05:12#18

 JJ created a good combo with JDV?? How??

We scraped past Argies in Arg. Ok, they are a lot harder to play in the beginning of the tournament rather than when NZL and Aus get to play them in Arg when they are fatigued and injured but still. We beat the Aussies twice convincingly but they were disjointed last year. We lost to the AB's twice...

What did JJ do to form anything? He filled a gap and besides for the AB's and the end of year tour (where JJ didnt feature anyway) Sasue is correct. We had a pretty easy international year. I hate to mention Aus and easy in the same sentence but lets face it..This Aussie side were rugby public underdogs vs Argies..Both home and away!!

 

Please name me one fan or super rugby team that thinks... "Oh sh!t...We playing the Bulls this weekend. Gota watch their 2 Bok centres!!"

They are non-entities and are not respected nearly as much as combo's like SBW and Fruean...Nonu and Smith..Beale and ACC...Their names and reps are hot air..

One guy steps inside whilst the other runs around like a headless chicken. Then it switches to D and one can tackle anything head on but step of either leg and it becomes a challenge in open field and the other wants to fucken hug you...

 

We want competitors in the Bok side. Okes like Kockott, Whiteley and co..Natural competitors!!!

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 May 2014, 05:48
#19
14 May 2014, 05:48#19
Ag siestog Oom. In how many games did de Allende make and attempt no tackles, how many direct opponents did he have?   Use your Closeau like skills and watch out for banana skins. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 May 2014, 06:41
#20
14 May 2014, 06:41#20
 Mozart
Another classic quote by you:-
" And over the season he has missed 18 per cent of his tackles....he tackles infrequently and without much success."
You refer to the wrong player here I am afraid,  You surely mean the fat fairy - with hios weak tackles and 24% missed tackle ratio at center and  30% when he played at flyhalf.  He did better last Saturday - but all his tackles were weak ones where he hung on for dear love to players. and others had to help hinm to complete his tackles - and you support the Fat Fairy for Springbok selection,  what a jok!!!!   
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
14 May 2014, 07:15
#21
14 May 2014, 07:15#21
 Well the centres need to be at least effective in attacking the line, based on thr amount o. Linebreaks, Carries, and Defenders Beaten. Based on Tackle Success Rate, the Top 3 best defending sides; Rebels 88.5%, Blues 88.1%, Chiefs 88.0%. I was really surprised that Rebels have the best Tackling Success Rate of any team, but anyway. Altho you look at Points for and Againgst, Sharks have conceded the less points for 187. Waratahs have 2nd best defense, letting in 196 points. And Force third letting in 213 points. Landers, Chiefs, Saders also rank up their defensivley.
JJ Vs Best Tackle Succes Rate Teams, and Best Defending Teams:
Metres = 110 Defenders Beaten/Clean Breaks = 10
Overall Metres = 210 Overall Overall DB/CB = 14 
52% effective againgst best defensive Super Rugby sides
Carries = 23 Overall Carries = 5244% Carries againgst Best Defending sides, 56% more effective againgst statistically weaker sides. 
De Allende Vs Best Tackle Success rate, and Best Defending teams:
Metres = 187 Defenders Beaten/Clean Breaks = 16
Overall Metres = 549 Overall DB/CB = 37
34% Effective againgst better defending sides, altho JJ has a better percentage per average of per metres againgst the best defending sides. De Allende shows to do more on the ball then JJ, has made more metres, and more defenders beaten, and has more clean breaks. Most of De Allendes game recently tho have bn on the wing,when as JJ has hd more direct opponents, as the role of a centre and wing is spacially different. 
Carries = 34
Overall Carries = 93 
36% of carries are againgst the best defending sides. Once again altho JJ has a better percentage of average carries pg againgst the best defensive sides. De Allande has a far supeior Carries account, and by average is going to peneatrate the advantage line alot more reguarly then JJ

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 May 2014, 16:56
#22
14 May 2014, 16:56#22

Sas you are spot on regarding Serfontein and JJ as our centres......it takes a Kiwi to point out the obvious to these clowns......their conservative, misinformed opinions on rugby are aligned with that of our national coach and the very reason we will always end up second to you.

 

The only change I would make to your backline would be Goosen at 10 and Willie at 15, with JP on the wing with de Allende.

 

My bench would be de Klerk/Reinach, Frans, Taute  

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
14 May 2014, 17:21
#23
14 May 2014, 17:21#23
 
Come now Sas ... your entire back line except for Willie Le Roux is ridiculous.

HouGat at 9 with Potgieter at 10??????

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Usually one picks a team to win a test match ... surely ... not get thrashed as is the case with your selections.

De Allende is a good solid player however is there room for him in the starting 15. I for one don't think so.

Kockett, Lambie, Habana, De Villiers, Jordaan, Le Roux, Mvovo

Perhaps on the bench as cover for 12 and wing.






sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
14 May 2014, 17:35
#24
14 May 2014, 17:35#24
sasuke uchiha
 
Status: Rugby Legend 
Posts: 5570RE: Should De Allende be in the Springbok team and in which position
May 13, 2014, 19:16:35
my Bok backline at the moment,,,

9 f hougaard, 10 j potgieter

12 j serfontein, 13 jj englebrechett

11 d de allende, 15 p lambie, 14 w le roux

21 s prestorius, 22 j goosen, 22 f steyn

How did Potgieter get into the team. He is not even a starting player. The Bulls combination of flyhalf/centres has been rubbish when he started, all he can do is kick.
Habana is obviously the best number 11 wing in the world. He scored 2 tries last year against the All Blacks in 5 minutes, and could well have got more had he not got injured. 
9. Fourie Dupreez10. Goosen11. Habana12. Jean Devilliers13. Delande14. Willie Leroux15. Lambie
BenchFat Steyn/Serfontein Hougaard/FaffJP Pieterson
— END OF THREAD —

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