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FORUM / RUGBY /  Should overseas based players be selected?

Should overseas based players be selected?

Started by bluebok41 REPLIES473 VIEWS· 28 Oct 2014, 16:49
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bluebok
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bluebokPro3,977 posts
28 Oct 2014, 16:49
#1
28 Oct 2014, 16:49#1
A strong argument can be made for including players based abroad in the national team. After all, that would offer the widest pool of players from which to choose, which would ultimately result in the strongest possible side. Taking into account the relatively short career most rugby players have, why not chase as much money as possible?
A couple of issues, specifically from a South African point of view. Firstly, if locally based players are not given some sort of preference when the Springbok side is being selected, then why should they remain loyal to the local franchises? In the professional era loyalty to a union is already a scarce commodity as it is. We are already seeing players moving from one local union to the next at the drop of a hat. It is a very small step with a massive financial incentive to move abroad. About the only thing keeping players in the republic is the prospect of being selected as a Springbok. Secondly, there is no doubt that if the preference for locally based players was removed, we'd see a mass exodus of players to the land of milk, honey and strong currencies! The Currie cup has massively reduced interest recently, due to the sheer volume of quality rugby out there. If this exodus of players were to take place, as it certainly would, what would become of the Currie Cup? It would become a farce! We have already seen that current Springboks are not playing at all in the Currie Cup. With no Springboks and a massive drain in players, the Currie Cup would become nothing more than a sub par competition. Lastly, and worst of all! We are already starting to see young players leaving SA for clubs in Europe and Japan. They are doing this knowing full well that it will probably mean they'll never get to wear the Bok jersey. They leave to chase the big bucks anyway.
It is my opinion that if players are able to be selected for the Springboks regardless of where they play, firstly the Currie Cup will suffer, because it is already a watered down version of what it used to be. Followed by Super Rugby due to the lack of a talented pool of players to choose from. Ultimately the Springboks would pay the price!       
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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
28 Oct 2014, 16:59
#2
28 Oct 2014, 16:59#2
Agree, but there is also the practical issues.
1. Availability - Fourie du Preez is Meyer's first choice, but prior to his injury he played less than half the games Meyer coached due to complications with his club. It also impacts on preparation time for Meyer, he just had two weeks extra time, but his overseas players are not there.
2. Player management, conditioning and positional play. Meyer can ask a local coach to play a player in a specific position, he cannot do that with overseas clubs, he has a hand in how players are managed locally but has no say at overseas clubs, European clubs play 26-28 matches in the Aviva, Top 14 and Rabo12, plus an additional 9 weeks in the Rugby Champions Cup, that excludes pre season matches.
Fitness and conditioning he cannot regularly monitor nor manage on overseas players.
3. Form - how do you measure form in comparison to local players, you can't measure them one on one because they play elsewhere. Selecting a player on reputation is a dangerous thing, just look at Morne Steyn over the past two years
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
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Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Oct 2014, 17:08
#3
28 Oct 2014, 17:08#3
Yes without a doubt foreign based players should be selected.....the world is a much smaller place now  
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 17:19
#4
28 Oct 2014, 17:19#4
 Bluebok
I personally have no problem with selection of overseas players per se - but the problem rllates to practicality and especially the slection criteria to be used.   
*   There is no way that overseas player performances can be assessed realistically.   They play on club level and some clubs often enough use ex-Springboks as bnch players.   What does it tell us about their usage?
*    Most of the Meyer sqad players are ex-Springboks who mocved overses hn they were 29 years and older - in other words they were really past heir prime performance age.   Are they to be selected on reputation only?
*   Although the European club playrs have a heavy schedule of games - that does not apply to the Japanse clubs.   Most of those teams play a game every 14 days and the conditioning of players are not up to SH standards.    They come back from there slower than they used to be and less fit as well.   You have the classic case of Jacques Fourie and JP Pietersen as examples - both were never speedsters, but both are now sustantially slower than they used to be.   Fourie is still a good defender and useless on attack - Pietersen in his first few games for the Sharks this year produced zero - and the same in the AB test at Ellis Park.
*    Because performance assessment of foreign based players are not really assessable - how do you know whether they still make the grade?   We have had extremely poor to questionable performances by a number of players based overseas in the past two years - players like Steenkamp. Bakkies Botha. Morne Steyn, etc.
In theory the widening of the pool to choose from is a good startegy - in practice it is nothing more than a gamble - ad that gamble has backfired on the Springboks a number of times.   There are very few players that you can take a gamble on - the rest are just not worth it.
Remember reputation-selection is an abomination that ultimately backfires badly
       
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
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DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Oct 2014, 17:41
#5
28 Oct 2014, 17:41#5
 Only if they have at least 25 caps for the Boks before going abroad. Let them earn the right to go.
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becs
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becsPro4,378 posts
28 Oct 2014, 18:06
#6
28 Oct 2014, 18:06#6
No they shouldn't.

If they wish to chase money and take foreign coin then they have turned their back on their own.
What sort of signal does it send to loyal players who stay at home if they are overlooked constantly for players that lack basic loyalty ? Something that sport is built around ? 
It's something that should be stopped forthwith. 
CE
Ceradyne
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2014, 18:42
#7
28 Oct 2014, 18:42#7
"2. Player management, conditioning and positional play. Meyer can ask a local coach to play a player in a specific position, he cannot do that with overseas clubs, he has a hand in how players are managed locally but has no say at overseas clubs, European clubs play 26-28 matches in the Aviva, Top 14 and Rabo12, plus an additional 9 weeks in the Rugby Champions Cup, that excludes pre season matches."
Meyer asked the Bulls to spare MS and get him some time off. How did that pan out?

Meyer asked the Sharks to go slow on Jannie and Beast. How did that pan out?

There are two examples. There are probably more.

I think that the overseas clubs are better at player management than the South African franchises. It is not strange to see players rested against "lesser" opponents. Toulon did it this past weekend. In the argument between myself and ou Maaikie about the game times for Jules Plisson and Morne Steyn, I actually discovered that between the two of them they only played one or two Amlin Cup games each. In fact, I think it was only one game each but I could be wrong. Some of the overseas squads are bigger. I am always gunning for ou Maaikie about Goosen and in all honesty, a lot of it is more banter than anything else but have a look at Goosen. He has lost a lot of game time in SA due to injuries. His workload at RM is, without any doubt, much lighter than at the Cheetahs. What are the chances that he would be managed like that at the Cheetahs? He will be played week in and week out until he picks up yet another injury.

Have a look at the Toulon squad. They have seven props which includes the likes of Carl Hayman, Martin Castrigiovani, Alexander Menini,etc. Four hookers. Six flankers. Three international fullbacks, i.e. Drew Mitchell, Delon Armitage and Leigh Halfpenny and then the have James o'Connor who is listed at center but who also plays fullback from time to time. All of those are class players. It is not as if they have two quality props and five passengers.

The same goes for most of the French clubs.
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Shezza
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ShezzaPro2,471 posts
28 Oct 2014, 18:53
#8
28 Oct 2014, 18:53#8
 The rate at which South Africa churn out young players does suggest to me at least that the provinces will never suffer with lack of depth.
Bec's hate to say it but what you've said lends to the question of Morals of rugby or Development of rugby, stopping players from going to different countries makes the game a lot more isolated and a lot less provocative for other countries (Eg. USA). 

It's too late to turn back now, the only time there was to decide this for SARU was after the RWC before so many players left. But in saying that if we did just stick to home based player's we'd still have a fantastic team, would be a shame to see Habana left out as he is in my eyes the best player to play for South Africa ever.

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becs
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becsPro4,378 posts
28 Oct 2014, 19:06
#9
28 Oct 2014, 19:06#9
 He is certainly not the best player to have played for SA ever ! My goodness me. You have had many marvellous players that trump him, even in my lifetime.
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Shezza
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ShezzaPro2,471 posts
28 Oct 2014, 20:06
#10
28 Oct 2014, 20:06#10
You wouldn't fully understand just exactly what he's done/does. 
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DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
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DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Oct 2014, 20:09
#11
28 Oct 2014, 20:09#11
 Habana is def one of the best players for SA in reacent years. He deserves to earn some pension and stillplay for SA.
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Rooinek
Captain18,117 posts
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RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
28 Oct 2014, 20:35
#12
28 Oct 2014, 20:35#12
I feel strongly that players should only be selected for the Springboks if they're currently playing for a local CC or S15 franchise.
Keep South African rugby strong.
If anyone disagrees, well, take a look at the policy of the world's #1 rugby nation and count how many overseas based All Blacks have been selected in the last few decades.
Case closed. 
Habana is a player I'd still like to select for my Springbok starting XV but if he's contracted with Toulon or whoever then tough takkie . . . rather pick a Kobus van Wyk or a Seabelo Senatla. No compromise.
 
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becs
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becsPro4,378 posts
28 Oct 2014, 20:43
#13
28 Oct 2014, 20:43#13
 Why wouldn't I understand, Shezza ? Because I am an imbecile ? 
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clevermike
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 20:58
#14
28 Oct 2014, 20:58#14
 Ceradoos
The French clubs are good at letting the players get fat and useless.   Look at Gurthro Steenkamp as an example.  F rancois Steyn cme back from France and was hugely overweight.   
The French clubs may amange someplayers well - but on the whole they do not meet the standards set in physical training of the major SA franchises.  If they do - why does the French club players plating for the Springboks mostly poor in performances?   Look no further than Juan Smit, Bakkies Botha. G urthro Steenkamp and Morne Steyn as examples where performances were way below par.
In any event - are the Club players in fact better than the local players - or is selection based on reputation.      
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Ceradyne
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2014, 21:03
#15
28 Oct 2014, 21:03#15
 P!ss off you farking clown. You have shown time and again how short-sighted and ill-informed you are.
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Beeno1
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Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Oct 2014, 21:41
#16
28 Oct 2014, 21:41#16
 Daft argument and only a halfwit would not want to play the bestwe have in the Boks team.
As already explained nz tend to keep their players better than us due to a stronger currency. 
Just wait till after the world cup. I will not be surprised if there is an exodus. So what happens if half the best Boks are overseas?
It's also a fact players are going overseas younger these days. 
Bye the way congrats to Classens he has been called up by France.
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Shezza
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ShezzaPro2,471 posts
28 Oct 2014, 22:01
#17
28 Oct 2014, 22:01#17
Because you've been very limited in your viewing of him Bec's.
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clevermike
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 22:04
#18
28 Oct 2014, 22:04#18
 Beeno
That is not the argument - I for instance has npoo problem with foreign-based players be selected.   It is problematic - there are serious problems in form determination - but players should primarily be selected on the basis of performance - not reputation.
We have a number of reputation players in the present squad -  Gurthro Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha. Morne Steyn) and those players were in fact sub-par when they played for the Springboks.   Another example is Juan Smith - did extremely well for Toulon in the Final - but was poor against Argentina.    If they can solve the selection criteria and not base it on reputation only - we may find foreign-based players selected on merit.  The present selection-process is aa joke in bad taste.     
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clevermike
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 22:08
#19
28 Oct 2014, 22:08#19
 Ceradoos has lost it - caught out writing crap.   However that is normal with him.
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Ceradyne
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2014, 23:05
#20
28 Oct 2014, 23:05#20
 The only one writing crap is you, poepol.
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becs
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becsPro4,378 posts
28 Oct 2014, 23:15
#21
28 Oct 2014, 23:15#21
 Since when have I been limited in my viewing of him, Shezza ?So I haven't watched him throughout his career, for Club and Country ? No ? Of course not. 
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clevermike
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 23:16
#22
28 Oct 2014, 23:16#22
 Ceradyne
I had my fun.   So lets get serious:-
*   Was Fransie grossly overweight (118 kgs) when he came back from Frace?*   Was Francois  Steyyn shortly after his return of any value to the Springboks?*   Were all of Steenkamp. Bakkies. Juan Smith and Morne Steyn not sub-par insofar as ther recent performances are concerned?
Unfortunately the above - the majority of the French-based players have been disappointing this year - but that could eb the result of their age - they are all over 30years of age  
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Ceradyne
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2014, 23:18
#23
28 Oct 2014, 23:18#23
A matter of opinion. As for Juan Smith.... are you writing him off on one performance here or not?
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clevermike
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Oct 2014, 07:52
#24
29 Oct 2014, 07:52#24
 Ceradyne
Cruel to judge a player on one game - but Juan Smith was so poor in that test - he himself publicly admitted it - that I am afraid that taking into account that performance and his age - he probably spoiled any chance o being brought on board again.
Steyn's weight issue was publicly stated last year - but the issue pre-dates that and he wasrealy suibstandard in the tests he played in in 2012.   Was substandard in Super 15 ever since then.  Not personal opinion - I am a fraid - it was clear in all the matches he played in and was confoirmed by his statitstics - his only asset being  his kicking at goal.  However, he may be back for Super 15 next year - but him throwing his toys out of the cot is likely to eliminate him from future \Springbok selection.   
Bakkies in all the tests he played in was the lowest work rate player ever to play at lock for South Africa.   He remians in teh Soringbok squad - but only based on reputation - definitely not performance.  Not personal opinion, but statistically confirmed as well.  
Morne Steyn buggered up so badly that in the last two tests in Super 15 he was not even on the bench for the Springboks.  FACT.
         
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CleanCut
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CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2014, 08:53
#25
29 Oct 2014, 08:53#25
 
I'm in favour of selecting on merit. If they're the best we have then by all means select them ... no matter where they're playing.

I'm apposed to bringing hasbeens from yesteryear back into the mix based on their reputation.

Contracts should be put together in such away that they're made available for test duty.

To be quite honest ... I don't quite get what the big issue is about. Local players won't get opportunities if theses overseas players were at home anyway so what's the big deal?

You still have to force your way into the national side by producing on the field ... surely? Why select someone for national duty just cause he' s the only one available?

Don't we want the best of the best running onto the park?

I would really hate to see Elton Jantjies or Jacques Louis Potgieter running on as our first choice 10 just cause Pollard's abroad playing for a club.

We've moved into the modern era. Throw in the poor Rand and we're forced to adapt to the times.

No choice really!


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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Oct 2014, 09:07
#26
29 Oct 2014, 09:07#26

If you look at the current overseas players, the only one I believe is still undoubtedly the best in his position is Bryan Habana.


Morne Steyn is definitely not the best.


Fourie du Preez until 2009 was the best halfback in the world, I don't think he is any more, but he suits the controlling nine role that Meyer likes from his number 9's, Ruan PIenaar I only there due to experience, but if HOugaard, Reinach or any other youngsters don't get opportunities then we won't build experienced back up.


Gurthro Steenkamp is a has been


Bakkies Botha is no longer what he was


There is a case for Francois Louw, but not such a convincing one, we have always had the best backrowers in the business, and I think we can replace him without stepping back.


Jaque FOurie was poor in the tests he played last year, I know we are struggling for 13's, but he isn't that great anymore.


Even JP has lost pace and didn't look convincing.


So going on form and merit, Habana is the only one that justifies his selection without a doubt.

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CleanCut
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CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2014, 09:27
#27
29 Oct 2014, 09:27#27
 
No arguments there.

Habana is probably the best striker in rugby today. He should be a no brainer.

Other than him I would also be looking at Bekker but that's it.

Our local players are at this stage in time far better than any of the overseas options.

That includes Louw and Du Preez. 

Meyer is fixated with the heavy fields up north. His entire focus is based on selecting players with northern experience ... so much so that he can't see that they are more of an liability than an advantage to us.

I wish he'd pull his out the sand and see it for what it is.



 
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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Oct 2014, 09:38
#28
29 Oct 2014, 09:38#28

 I think Meyer is looking at these older players as a safety net, he needs to show faith in the youngsters.


We are developing tw o game styles, but it is clear Meyer doesn't have belief that Hougaard and Pollard or Reinach and Lambie can execute it, if he did he would have dropped Steyn and Co.

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CleanCut
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CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2014, 09:53
#29
29 Oct 2014, 09:53#29
 
I'm really hoping to see the expansive game plan in action next month. It's exciting and it shows we're very creative bunch.

I swear I'll burst into tears if he returns to the kick everything away game plan ... again.

Seeing me sob away uncontrollably is not a pretty sight.

I read all your articles and was pleasantly surprised to see your not a Meyer puppet as first thought. There seems to be a lot of hope for the toppie with the "hang bal".

 




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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Oct 2014, 10:01
#30
29 Oct 2014, 10:01#30

I have learnt to be careful at criticising Meyer on SA forums, I have copped a lot of flack from these site s for having a negative opinion on Meyer.


So when I joined here I thought it best to not come outright and criticise the bloke because some sites don't take kindly to criticising the Bulls saviour of SA rugby.


I get sick and tired of getting onto SA sites and you aren't allowed to criticise teams. 




 

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Ceradyne
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 Oct 2014, 10:44
#31
29 Oct 2014, 10:44#31
 


biltongbek

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 163 RE: Should overseas based players be selected?
October 29, 2014, 09:38:49

 I think Meyer is looking at these older players as a safety net, he needs to show faith in the youngsters.


We are developing two game styles, but it is clear Meyer doesn't have belief that Hougaard and Pollard or Reinach and Lambie can execute it, if he did he would have dropped Steyn and Co.


I don't think that HM is not showing faith in the youngsters. He has not hesitated to include them. The only difference is that he is very careful how, when and under b what circumstances he "deploy them". If you compare him to what PDV did, they are light-years apart. PDV made a song and dance of players long before they were anywhere near the picture that he painted of then and then chucked them into the side.

How many of HM's youngsters that he brought in have really failed? In addirion, he has capped probably more youngsters than most other Bok coaches, and he is playing them. He has not, so far, had more failures than any other coach.

Some of "the great" Nick Mallett's beauties, who played less than 10 tests:

Jeremy Thompson - selected but never even played.
Edrich Lubbe (2)
Warren Broshnihan -6
Braam Els -1
McNeal Hendrick -2
Andrew Aitken -7
Phillip Smith - selected but never even played.
Wium Basson -selected but never even played.
Boeta Wessels -selected but never even played.
Dan van Zyl - 2
Dale Stanton - selected but never even played for Mallett. He was only capped in 2004 by Straueli.
Lourens Venter -selected but never even played.
Chad Alcock -selected but never even played.
Kaya Flippin Molotana -The less said......

There are eight more that I could not even be bothered to list and I haven't even touched on the Gaffie du Toit/Dave van Hoesilin fiasco.

Shoud we really talk about Straueli? The names Quinton Davids, Johan Wasserman, Thando Manana, Hendrik Gerber, Ettienne Fynn ring a bell? There are eighteen more.

Jake White had his fair share as well. Henno Mentz, Hanyani Shimange, Solly Tyibilika, Tonderai Chavanga, Jonki Nokwe, Meyer Bosman, Bevan Fortuin, Hilton Lobberts, Jaco Pretorius, Kabamba Floors, Waylon Murray,

PDV. Only 14 of his 29 caps made it to 10+ tests.





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CleanCut
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CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2014, 10:52
#32
29 Oct 2014, 10:52#32
 
You'll find you average garden variety Meyer fan on this site. He is to them as Richie McCaw is to the Kiwis.

They think that anything and everyone affiliated to the Broederbond has right of way and that the rest of us should rather just shut up and accept it.

Luckily we're permitted to argue our point on this site without interference ... that's what makes this site so special.

Here you can speak you mind and if anyone disagrees with you, you can simply call him an idiot or in some cases the use of any and every juicy word imaginable will do just fine. 

I'm not really one for profanity however there are those who really enjoy adding a little colour to their posts.  

The choice is yours.



  
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CleanCut
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CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2014, 11:04
#33
29 Oct 2014, 11:04#33
 
The problem is that Meyer "capped' a lot of incompetent players ... players that should never have been considered for national duty to begin with.

The Kirchners and Bassons ... the Jantjies, Greyling and Werner Kruger's ... the list goes on and on.

To add to his folly he also brought back the aged. The Gurthros and Bakkies ... Du Preez and Pienaars.

I know you like to point your finger at previous coaches in an attempt to take the focus off of useless Meyer. You've tried it before. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now.

Meyer is the current "coach" ... leave the coaches of yesteryear out of it. They should by rights not influence his team selections and if they do then we're deeper in the dwang than first thought.



 


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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Oct 2014, 11:05
#34
29 Oct 2014, 11:05#34

 Ceradyne, there is one major difference here.


There is a host of players PDV never got rid of, in fact he called them back from France, besides that you canot even compare Meyer and PDV, purely because after initially wanting to change he SPringbok game, the senior players were allowed to take control and decide the fate of the Boks.


Meyer is sticking to his guns by wanting to improve execution and also improve our attitude towards ball I and, however he is conflicted to the point where he is debilitating his progress by hanging on to players that really should not be there anymore.


Yes, I agree he is slowly introducing youngsters, and he knows better than any of us how he wants to do it, but due to the fact that everything is held close to the chest, we have to guess, and my guess is he isn't convinced that his youngsters can do what Steyn, du Preez etc can do.


What will it take to drop Morne for the final time? Fine keep Fourie du Preez if you really have too, but get rid of Ruan, Keep Victor if you believe he can still contribute, bu drop Bakkies.


Phase these guys out and show commitment to the youngsters

CE
Ceradyne
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 Oct 2014, 14:06
#35
29 Oct 2014, 14:06#35
 As you have said, we can only guess. I am not too sure that he is not convinced that his youngsters cannot do what Steyn, etc can/could do. I think, and that is my guess, that it is more of a matter not being convinced (yet?) that they can do what he want them to do. There is a subtle difference.


I might get my head bitten off.............. again........ but the flyhalf story is an example. I might of course be 100% wrong, but this is the way I see it. He knew where he wanted to go but he did not have the personnel to do it with. Everybody was shouting for Morne Steyn's head in 2012. Some, obviously long before that . Right at the start of his tenure he, after all, said that he was not going to jump in and shuffle everything around and that he was rather going to start off with what is familiar and evolve the squad from there on. He had no choice, TBH. There was hardly anything left to work with and then some of those left, who he eyed as key players, were  also not available. It was the same with the flyhalf. He only really had Steyn. Goosen was as green as they come and, at the time, injured as well. Lambie was not a definite answer or a certainty as a flyhalf. HM has always been "working" with him to improve him as a flyhalf. He had him on tours without playing him, but "working" with him. Jantjies...... the less said. But HM knew that he had Pollard waiting in the winds somewhere and he knew that he was something special. The same has been happening with others as well, IMO.

Had PSDT and Arno Botha not been injured, we might well have seen more of them and less of Victor/Bakkies/Juan. One thing that we do know is that HM communicates with the players. Many of the players who do not feature in the squad have publically said that he has been in discussions with them and they know exactly where they fall short. Examples are Heinrich Brussow and Robert Ebersohn. I have seen article where they have both been quoted, confirming that HM has been in discussion with them.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Oct 2014, 14:18
#36
29 Oct 2014, 14:18#36
Ceradyne
Ibn essense I agree with your summary - we doo not really know where Meyer is going with some players.   
However, the issue of Morne Steyn is nothing new.   Hois performances in 2012 was atrocious and they fact that he lost his position at flyhalf - was not because the pubblic was clamouring, but because he was so poor.   Come alomng 2013 - his gaol kicking improved - the rest of his game stayed the same - bar for defense, which went into serious decline.   The year he was mediocre in all th tests played - his decisionmaking was especially poor and excecution not much better.   Be it as it may -I cannot see him being selected as a Springbok again.   If he was younger - maybe he could correct problems, but he is not going to change/improve his game at the age of 30 - 31 next year.   
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Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 Oct 2014, 14:25
#37
29 Oct 2014, 14:25#37
Jaaaaaa swaer.
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2014, 14:30
#38
29 Oct 2014, 14:30#38
 
We all know that Brussow does not feature in any of Meyer's plans ... so why the communication?

"Working" with Pat Lambie is rather concerning. He probably tried to change him into a Morne type as at that stage in time he preferred the kick every away game plan. He may still prefer it today.

Is that perhaps why Lambie was cast aside?

Is Lambie's flat attacking style of play the reason he's suddenly favoured again?

The biggest problem we have with Meyer is that he himself doesn't know what he wants.

He's clueless. The fool's stumbling around in the dark. He has been since he took over. He still has Pienaar and Gurthro on his books for crying out loud. You can't tell me he has any sense of direction.

Best thing for SA rugby is to put him up against the wall and shoot him at dawn.



MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Oct 2014, 14:43
#39
29 Oct 2014, 14:43#39

HM has the second highest win ratio of any Bok coach, except for Christie who was essentially the coach for the RWC95. He has lost two tests in the last 12......grow up Carbuncle.

 

I mean take a look at your big pick you have been punting all year....Marnitz Boshoff, he totally imploded in the CC final....lost his nerve ....ended like a quivering jelly. And you have the nerve to dump on Morne who did what? Missed one key penalty to touch? You backward apes are really amusing.

CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2014, 15:10
#40
29 Oct 2014, 15:10#40
 
You frail little old man ... twisting the story to suit your cause.

Boshoff is the next best to Lambie and Pollard. I said so the other day. Try to keep up will you.

Morne cost us the Castle championship this year and you wanna keep him? That's no surprise.

We scraped home against Wales and Argentina and your celebrating??

We lost to a clueless Ozzie outfit with so many internal issues, when by rights we should have thumped them by at least 30.

Your problem is that your satisfied with 2nd best. Your content with mediocrity. That and cheering the aged on to take spots that belong to younger, stronger players.

Get a grip you fossilized fool.

 
 
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