Silky Joe Pietersen

 this kid is classy, silky, has great vision with skills to boot - will be very surprised if he does not make the Boks team!

He is very strong in contact for such a small player; much like a certain Mr.Aplon. He has his detractors, but any fullback that can hand-off the entire Shark's front row one after the other gets a big vote of confidence from me. He has a far better rugby brain than Lambie and more rounded than Kirchner.

oh hell no he's too feckin small....you guys must be nuts, we don't know what to do with quick, skilled and small players LOL

I always rated Pietersen highly and am delighted that he is back for the Stormers.  This guy has got ball sense - something very much needed for a full back.   Did you see how he tackled Pierre Spies in the Bulls game?   He is much like Montgomery in his abilities and performance and I think that he would not let any team down. 

Mike, I totally agree, it'm just having a lend of those who have a thing against small players.

 Its the first time he has impressed me. He is certainly too small for Test rugby, unless there are other 80 kg fullbacks playing Test rugby at the moment????????

Irrespective of weight he has exhibited a lot of physicality and durability than players many kgs more than himself. How many times Dave? Weight does not equal strength.

 Like I said, its the first time he has impressed me and physicality has nothing to do with it. He is not big enough for Test rugby end of

 this kid would be an ABs contender if he were in NZ - he totally outplayed and outclassed Ben Smith and Ben is no slouch! Eager how to see how he would fare against Israel Dagg and Bearle.

Joe is a great fullback, but I fear that he may be too small for test rugby because the test arena brings with it players who are bigger, faster and have better ball skills. The level of physicality at test level is about two notches up from super-rugby.

"this kid would be an ABs contender if he were in NZ - he totally outplayed and outclassed Ben Smith and Ben is no slouch! Eager how to see how he would fare against Israel Dagg and Bearle."

The voice of reason...well said!

"Joe is a great fullback, but I fear that he may be too small for test rugby because the test arena brings with it players who are bigger, faster and have better ball skills. The level of physicality at test level is about two notches up from super-rugby."

You might want to remember England and Jason Robinson?

@ Denny, its not impossible for him to play there for the Bokke, but my "fear' is his size. Perhaps a few cameos off the bench against England to see how he goes might put to rest the questions over his size.

I would play Joe at 15 for the Boks. My sense is he is not "smaller" in a rugby sense than Lambie. So what is Joe's size preventing him from doing?

Leaping for the high ball? Well at 1.8 m he is taller than Lambie at 1.78 m.

Tackling the big guys? Well as Mike says he brought down Spies in acres of space at full steam.

Taking the ball securely into contact? He does it all the time and is a hard runner to bring down.

If Lambie is big enough, and he was the best fullback at the RWC.....then Joe is big enough.

 If Lambie is big enough, and he was the best fullback at the RWC.

Actually I think Israel Dagg made most tournament team selections, but that aside Joe Pieterson deserves a shot.

 Um Lambie = 92kg = respectable weight for a 15 - to be fair 95kg is about par for a test 15

Joe = 85kg - far too light for a test 15

No way in hell can Joe play 15 for the Boks ahead of Lambie - it wont happen

 actually Saffex, it depends on what gameplan you are trying to play - If you are going to use him as a battering ram then maybe not but if you are going to play a fast paced high tempo game then maybe!

 Ah yeah, I can just see test rugby affording you the space and time to play fast paced high tempo rugby - dream on. Modern test players require skill, strength and size. As I keep asking name any wing, fullback or centre weighing less than 90kg playing test rugby today for the top 6 nations. There is no place for a Joe at 85kg playing test rugby - they will blow him away. Its just not sustainable - much like de Jongh at 13, no way in hell

 here is what Hein Diemont had to say about Joe in the Stormers vs Highlanders game

"..........but the best of the lot was Joe Pietersen.

The fullback was solid as a rock. His decision-making was top class as he only took on the counter when he knew the situation favoured that approach.

His high kicks were pinpoint and he was great in retrieving the ball out of the air. A brilliant, match-winning showing by the Stormers fullback."

I have my doubts about Joe only because of his size and nothing else and I think he should be given an opportuinity against opposition in a not so important fixture. Hakwa, I understand why you all on fire over Joe, but I think he will be found out in Test rugby because of his size.

Hey guys backline players size not everything, Pace however from the back in the back 3 is everything, and Joe on form has everything. You can always put on some wheigt, but you can't gain that much pace, you either have it or you don't. Before we sing his praises too much. This was the first game since his return that he was actually showing the form he had before he left. Let's wait and see give him another few games, don't bvase form on one game.

These days, size in the backs counts for plenty - its how the game has moved on even from a year or two ago. There are no under 90kg backs playing test rugby for the top 6 or 8 nations. Halfpenny of Wales is about the smallest, but he looks like a bodybuilder these days, he has muscled up so much. Joe is far too small as is de Jongh, Basson and Aplon

I rate the Ausie backline as one of the best in the world as a Unit, because of their pace and unpredictability. Size is irrelevant. Let's take the last Ausie backline that played against South Africa:

Kurtley Beale - 89 kg's

James o'Conner - 83 kg's

Adam Ashley Cooper - 98 kg's

Pat McCabe - 93kg's

Digby Ioane - 95kg's

Quade Cooper - 91kg's

Will Genia - 83 kg's

O'Conner and Beale are definitely not known because of their size, And Ahsley Cooper is the Giant in that Backline at 98 kg's compared to a size crazy mentality we have in South Africa. I am not saying that a modern rugby player should be small, I am sayning that if you close your eyes on size or make a cutoff at say 90kg's like you said. Players like O'Conner would never play international Rugby.

Joe Peterson wheiged around 80 kg's when he started out, these days he wheighs in around 85 kg's he has gained some wheight yes, but that comes with maturing as well from 20 years to 27 will do that to you. Point is he is bigger than O' Conner and i don't see O'Conner struggling at international level.

Honestly Pace and skill in a back is far more advantagious than wheight. And the more pace and skill you get the less likely you will get wheigt. I try not to be too one dimensional in my thinking. So i prefer to have a balance, as there are advantages to both having pacy skillfull backs and a basher as well. But honestly Joe is not too small.

Ah but you see, James O'Conner has beefed up since his start. He might have been 83kg's to start with, he now weighs 90kg's as does Beale, see link below

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/australian-conference-2012-super-rugby-squads/

 Good on them, still does not retract from the argument of not giving  a guy his chance because he is too small. If he is better he is better. Irrelevant on what his size is. If there was a better guy that Joe Peterson to pick, maybe Riaan Viljoen or Taute or Lambie, their size is irrelevant. They are either better or not.

Disagree, size does count at test level. Defences are tighter, there is less space and time to deliver and therefore players need to be able to impose themselves physically. Its part of the armoury they need today in test rugby - its all about skill, strength and size. Joe has skill but no physicality - he would be exposed at test level and why no 85kg fullbacks are playing test rugby today

 Well then we shall agree to disagree, As I believe pick the best player available to combine with the rest as it is a team sport. Weither a player is bigger or smaller is irrelevant to me. On size and defense btw. regardless of test rugby i believe you will take that argument into Super Rugby as well. Stormers back three and Juan de Jong are all below 90kg's, yet they have the best dfensive record thus far in the competition. Just some food for thought. Yes Habana is below 90 well just just however still below 90, as you want to use it as a cuttoff.

Like I said, test match rugby has moved on and no players under 90kg exist at centre, fullback or wing......thats the reality of modern test rugby. Habana weighs 95kg's these days

 Thanks for the update on his weight, To me however it won't make a difference. If he was better pick him if not don't pick him.

We would be foolhardy to say that size doesnt count.

Of course it does.

We dont want a 90kg prop and 85kg lock scrumming down for the Boks.

However, it most certainly isnt the be all and end all....

For example:

If we have a supremely skilled fella playing lock who weighs 110kgs and a lesser skilled fella weighing 115, i would much rather forfeit the 5kgs for more skill.

We were very fortunate in that Bakkies and Victor where a match made in heaven.

Both skilled, both had mass (Matfield had enough), both where extremely athletic for their sizes and they played like trojans for the Bokke.

But it looks like the cupboard is full of decent replacements.

Im probably the biggest Etsbeth fan in the land...

But id much rather see him pairing up with Juandre Kruger than Bekker.

I dont know what it is, but Bekker just irritates me. I dont think he has enough gees in his heart.

He has the skill, but lacks what Vic had inside him

That is the argument that makes sense. Keep the balance and perspective, don't just deny a guy the opportunity because of his size.

My point is not about denying any player the opportunity to play test rugby based on his size. My point is more about the modern trend and the way the game has moved on and does each year. As I keep saying there are no wings, centres or fullbacks playing test rugby for the top nations at the moment that weigh less than 90kg's and if there are, they have to be pretty special players.

The stats back my point. Size counts, small guys are the exception not the rule. If you are going to play test rugby as an 85kg player then you have to be pretty special. Is Joe special - no he is not and nor is de Jongh - not even close

My appologies then for understanding you worngly Saffex. I understood that you where one of those that will deny a player an opportunity due to the lack of size.

No I would not deny him a spot. If we had James O'Connor today and he weighed less than 90kg's I'd select him without a doubt as he is special. Much like I'd be more than happy with Daniel playing 6 for the Boks if Brussouw was injured or having a player like Schalk Brits playing off the bench for the Boks - these small guys have it

So in the end we actually agree then, If he is the best play him.

Yes, but like I say he would have to be pretty special as small guys get blown away at test level

Thanks for the nice Debate Saffex. We had a good Debate with each other without anyone calling anyone something unneccesary. I appreciate that. It is rare these days to find that on a forum. And yes we do agree, I innitially understood you wrong and thought you implied that size was the Alpha & Omega like some people i know. Horses for courses and play the best available.

Anycase the Jury on Joe is still out, he had one good game so far. Hope he gets that old form back, cause he used to be pretty damn special.

Agreed, good debate and while I am open to small guys making it at test level, I much prefer the big lads with skill, speed and power

come on people, keep this post alive at least until after the Saders vs Stormers game LOL when Joe will face Dagg for the thriller everyone is looking forward to. 

Dagg is pure class