So far the Bok candidates are following the script....

At 15, Kirchner still can't tackle and has no idea what to do with the ball. Taute finds touch when he shouldn't and doesn't find touch when he should. F Steyn is the only option.

At 11 and 14 Habana is still our world class player. JP, with all the talent in the world is still up the lazy river in the noon day sun. Mvovo and Rhule are ok against weaker teams, but intimidated against the best. Young Petersen is a real competitor.....I like his spirit and instant on button. Likewise van den Heever is showing good signs.

At 13 there is nobody. De Jongh plays the position well technically, but isn't assertive. JJ cant figure out where the defensive line is. And Jordaan is not progressing....he looks less and less able to make a difference.

At 12 de Allende has done well, but Jean is our best back and has been for years. And 12 is his best position. Fransie is simply lost mentally at 12....hopefully Plum is serious about shifting him back to 15.

At 10 Lambie is solid meat and potatoes. Jantjies is an artist who can't goal kick, tackle or dictate a game. And Goosen as predicted is hurt again. Morne remains the practical alternative to Lambie, should he be compromised.

At 9 we will have to play Pienaar. Reinach is still too green and the rest are not physical enough. And poor Hougaard is not a 9 at all.

At loosehead there is the Beast who seems to have come into rare form since his heart procedure......Kitshoff plays the general game very well....but he concedes too many scrumming penalties and can't create pressure. I predict a call to Gurthro for the bench.

At hooker it's Strauss and dreams of Bismarck.

At 3 we have a fading Jannie, or is it an injured Jannie? There is nobody else but Wiehahn Herbst has a serious name and seems to be a serious scrummager.

Blind side flank is wide open...Alberts is the test proven candidate, but Elstadt has had some Bok like games. And once Schalk comes back, look out, this man wont be taking any prisoners. You can forget Coetzee who can't make any impression against the tough teams.

At lock it's Etzebeth and Bekker the best there is...and maybe Steph du Toit, although there is still huge hype for example over interpreting his game against the nothing rebels pack. But there is no denying his improved strength versus last year.

At open side Brussouw seems to be firmly back in the mix, with Louw. Louw turned around the Bok breakdown last year and I wouldn't rule out a Brussouw/Louw tandem, particularly against Oz. Louw is a hybrid 6 or 7.

Then at 8 we see the occasional run from Spies and he does seem to be playing with more gusto. It's just that we remember so many tests where he was a no show. I prefer Vermeulen.

So all the talk about significant team changes seems to be fading as we fine tune around the experienced guys.

Agree with some, disagree with most. For a start its early days and we have not seen enough to formulate a real opinion on  some of the players this season.

Agreed, Kirchner is not the answer and while he was solid for the Boks last year, he has been average for the Bulls this year. Taute has played little rugby this year, but looks the only option at 15. Lambie would have come into contention had Goosen been fit. Frans is not a good option at 15 as he lacks out and out pace and Meyer sees him as a 12, as I do. Ludik is a good S15 level player but lacks real clout to be a Bok. Willie le Roux is a talent but tends to spend his time on the wing.

JP is our best wing but has been poor this year. Not sure what the issue is with him, but then again its been the same issue with the Sharks in general. Habana might still have a year in him, time will tell. You are wrong about Rhule, he was great last year and has found that form again in his last two games. v/d Heever looks to be back to his best, but he needs to show that form each week. Sergel looks a great prosect but size might be an issue. Mvovo has had a good season and taken his opportunities this year. Mapoe was very good last year for the Lions, but has been average for the Bulls this season. If Jordaan does not work out at 13, then he would probably be better suited to wing.

Outside centre is an issue and it might take moving a player like Jan Serfontein to 13 to solve the issue. I am convinced Serfontein has to start for the Boks this year. His showing in the 10 min he was on against the Reds was sublime. He has pace, strength and an eye for space. The way he took on the Reds 12 by first attacking his inside at an angle and then beating him on the outside was brilliant. That was later followed by speed through the gap and a step or two to beat 2 defenders. JJ Engelbrecht has been solid in his last two outings and looks full of running.....what I like about this guy is that he looks to step, much like Jordaan does, but Jordaan might lack the physicality to impose himself. Jordaan has failed to make an impression this year, but to be fair to him, he has had little opportunity. de Allende looks like the kind of centre that would be at home at 13 as well. Its disappointing that Baby Bok, Pat Howard has not been given an opportunity at S15 level yet.

At 12, Jean would provide more of the same, nothing special......we need to move on from solid, Jean is past it. Frans needs to get fit and play the SBW role if he wants to make it at 12. He has the attributes to be our best 12 in the modern test arena, but then he needs to embrace the model he showed in his first S15 outing this year. de Allende has made an impact only to be moved to the bench.....this has done the Boks and the Stormers no favours. Frans Venter is a good prospect but will struggle to get game time with the Bulls. Whitehead was brilliant in last years S15, but has failed to regain that form after his injury. His return to S15 rugby will be defining. Jan Serfotein is the one dead certainty for 12 or 13........we need to work out who his best partner should be. My call would be a fit Frans at 12, with Jan at 13 and JJ on the bench.

At 10, Goosen is a huge loss. Lambie walks it with Goosen out of the equation. Jantjies provides something different. Katrakilis looks a good prospect.

At 9, Hougaard will get game time with the Bulls, he started well with his primary role of service, but needs to find his attacking spark. We need Hougaard at his best at 9. Pienaar like Jean is done. Reinach looks a good prospect as does Groom of the Stormers. v/Zyl of the Cheetahs is another good player, but is struggling to displace the running Pretorious who cant pass.

At loosehead, Beast is still king, but we have depth in Kitshoff who has been good this season - both in the scrums and general play. He has been wrongly pinged for penalties, much like many of the props out there - its a lottery. Coenie looks set to play tighthead, but remains a prospect at loosehead, his usual position. Nkanyane for the Cheetahs has been huge, what a find this lad is. The same can be said of Mellett of the Bulls. We must never see Steenkamp or CJ in a Bok jersey again.....that was insulting.

At hooker Bismark and Strauss are the obvious choices. Chiliboy has lost his mojo. Kyle Cooper of the Sharks looks a good prospect as did Callie Visagie of the Lions last year, who was meant to be on loan to the Bulls this year, but I have yet to see him feature. Fourie is a great impact player in the Brits mould and who can cover 6.

At 3, Jannie is still in charge, Malherbe has come on strong for the Stormers, rightfully displacing the average Pat Cilliers who toured with the Boks. Coenie is strong enough to develop into a great tighthead, but he has some way to go yet. Herbst looks ok and I like Frik Kirsten of the Bulls. Last seasons impressive Cheetah, now with the Bulls -  Marcel v/d Merwe will return from injury in May - he is a beast.

We have more than enough depth at lock. Etzebeth and Bekker stand tall, with Steph du Toit and de Jager making the right noises. Added to this, there are youngsters like Willemse, JA Marais and Bresler......plus a handful of others.

At 6, Brussouw was huge on the weekend, Kolisi was huge against the Chiefs and Daniel is a class act but only if he plays 6. Louw is better suited to 7.

At 7 we have Elstadt showing promise, I have always thought he looked Bok material. Alberts will be back to provide more of the physical same. Players like Labascagne, Coetzee and Arno Botha have been good this year, in particular Botha and Labascagne. Botha is equally at home at 8 and  suspect Coetzee would be best suited to 8.

At 8, Spies has been better than he has been in a while. Vermeulen has been good and v/d Walt of the Cheetahs has been a good find.

If  I was selecting the Bok side now for June.......my side would be:

15. Taute 14. JP 13. Serfontein 12. Frans 11. v/d Heever 10. Lambie 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Jannie 4. Etzebeth 5. Bekker 6. Brussouw 7. Elstadt 8. Vermeulen 16. Reinach 17. Jantjies 18. JJ/ de Allende/ Jordaan/ Rhule 19. Coenie 20. Strauss 21. Steph du Toit 22. Coetzee/ Louw/ Botha / Labascagne/ Kolisi

 Well Dave I don't have any issue with the starting pack. On the bench I'd have Louw/Brussouw (starting the other). ...Strauss if Bismarck starts....Steph  if he shows he can really play with the big boys....and certainly not Coenie on the bench.

In the backs 

Fransie is better than Taute

Jean is better than Fransie

Pienaar is beter than Hougaard

And Hougaard is probably a safer choice than van den Heever, although I am for giving van den Heever a chance.

Thirteen is a mystery.

We have the case here of two dreamers who see wonderful things in players that others don't see and publish quite a lot of comment on players that that are either dreams or even outright lies and then make out that they are in reality looking at players objectively.  I do agree in some cases - in othr cases it is not even a consideration at all.

Lets look at issues objectively and in line with the preent situation based on form:-

Full back:    It is agreed that Kirchner has been useless thus far in Super 15,  Howevermm he is Meyer's little pet - so he probably will be thereabouts again.  Taute has been severely disappointing and Steyn, who came of the bench cannot pass balls at all in the games he played in and does not see anything but crashballing as an option.    The only full back that showed any form this year was Ludick.   .  Not mentioned by Mozart at all - and Saffex makes wild statements based on no evidence at all as is his normal like "lack some clout"   Steyn is too slow at full back in any event - at least that is true on the part of Saffex.  Up in the air at this stage - and the only player with any relistic claim - based on form is in fact Ludick.

Wings :    Both Pietersen and Habana were playing the fool this year so far this Super 15 this  year and were jokes in bad taste,   In the games he played in thus far this year Habana showed nothig and he will show nothing as he is injured.    What did Pietersen do to indicate that he is still a wing?   The reason probablyis a serious malfunctioning of the centers and lack of the wings getting any balls to play with in virtually all games thus far in Super 15.    The balls that the wings got is purely by chance or stemmed from opposition mistakes.   Petersen looked good inthe game against the Force and showed very little otherwise.    The only player that really was solid under high balls this year was Mvovo.    Van den Heever thus fr started in only one game and he had a very good performance in that game.Where to go on current form?   Nowhere fast and we will have to see how the season panned out this year.

Centers :   There are only three centers that has some real form and one of those was only on the field of play for 20 minutes in all the rounds this year.   Those are  De Villiers, De Allende and Serfontein.   Steyn was groslly overweight and unfit when he started this year - gave no indication as to how he plays other than crashballing and ill-judged kicks that destroy backline attacks and was dropped from the position because of general poor performance especially showing nothing in attacking play and virtually nothing in defece as well..   Engelbrecht showed nothing on attack and his defence remains a shamble - too many tackles missed.      Jordaan got virtually no balls to play with thus far this year and the joke was Mozart's lie about him being tackled back on Saturday was norma from him as well as Saffex (spread falsehoods about good performance on the part of players they like and outright fabrication of players they don't like)   Fact remains that Jordaan remains inconclusive becasue he showed very little this year because he got virtually no balls to use at all.    However, without balls no center can perform - so the field  is wide open.  Would like to see more of Serfontein starting in games and believes he has masive potential.    I would say on present form there is one certainty only - namely De Villiers - but other than the outright failures thus far (Steyn and Engelbrecht)  the rest is still a lottery.   

Flyhalfs:   With Goosen out and unlikely to figure before September - the only real contenders are really Lambie ad Steyn.   Both had accurate goal kicking recods until the last round they started in.   Lambie was poor in the games against the Rebels and Steyn forgot to take his kicking boots with him on tour - something was seriously amiss against the Crusaders.   On the form he showed before the last round Lambie is still the front-runner.

Scrummies :   Hougaard tried his utmost - but was still average to  poor in the gams he played in.    Reinach had a shocker against the Kings and was otherwise better than the other local contenders.    Pretorius was very good on tour and disappointed against the Force.   I watched the Ulster games in the Heineken Cup and Pienaar had up and down games in that competition.   He played the standard NH games - kicking away most balls - so it was difficult to determine whether he in other aspects of the games was any good.  

BACKLINE SUMMARY

Other than De Villiers, Lambie,  De Allende and Steyn in starting line-ups and Serfontein coming from the bench - none of the backline players this year showed anything of note and some of them actually disgraced themselves consistently.  Others nearly never got the ball and te rest has had flashes of good play, but no consistency at all.   The siuation is indeed disappointing and one can only hope that there is some imptrovement in form later in the series as pointers to selection for the national side.

No 8 :   Vermeulen was very good as a strong man in the games played thus far - and Spies had one strong run against the Blues.   He was at times good in games - at times he was  not in evidence at all,   The other are real guesses - since they have not started at 8.   Engelbrecht is the dark horse in this race.  At this stage Vermeulen is probably one of the more certain choices if a team is to be selected today. 

No 7 :    Mozart mentioned Burger - but is he ever going to play again?   Every three weeks in instatements made his return is postponed by three weeks.  He has not played any competitive rugby since 2011 and we saw what happened to Juan Smith after his return.  At this stage we can forget about him.  The only 7's that showed any form thus far in the series were in fact Labuschagne, Botha and Elstadt.   Of the three Labuschane had the best form in all-round performance (ball carrying, fetching/ball turnovers and outstanding defence)  Botha in two of the elements mentioned and Elstadt the same.   Alberts like Burger has not played as yet in Super 15 - so he is also guess work at best.    None of the other players made any claims whatsoever. 

No 6  :    Lets start again with the overseas player.   Louw performed excellently for Bath - so he remains a serious candidate.   Kolisi  was very avrae in all th gamnes he played in - but on Saturday I was wondering whether he really tried to handthe game to the opposition with two penalties against him.   All in all not Bok material.   Brussow came back - starting in one game only and off the bench for 30 minutes per game.   He did very well - but also gave away penalties in all games he played in.   Too early to predict a frontrunner, but my guess is itis between Louw and Brusow on current form.

Locks  :    Only three obvious contenders in evidence  - namely Bekker who was massive in his last game - Etzebeth on reputation and Du Toit - who was outstanding in the games he came on as well as the game against the Rebels.   The rest ar mere pretenders with no real clout.  

Props  :    Of the props two stood out above the rest, namely Beast and Malherbe.   Du Plessis was not really of any value.   Herbst was very good in the one game he started in.  Kitshoff showed promise - but need some experience to really show his true value in scrumming.

Hookers :   Bismarck is still absent - but Strauss showed consistent form and Cooper was veru good in his first staring game.   Burden was a disgrace.

SUMMARY ON FORWARDS

There can be real uncertainty about candidates for some positions - but there is sufficient talented candidates for all positions.

Mike you poor old codger.....I said Jordaan was knocked back in the act of tackling......not that he was tackled back. Hahaha I can imagine you pouring over the game trying to prove me wrong. I see you have already dropped Coetzee from your thinking....as I suggested months ago. Add Jordaan, he is not improving.

I love the way after being dead wrong last week, you are still mouthing off. Often wrong, never uncertain.

Tell you what Ou Maaik,  if you don't like my stuff, read Sharkbok. His much shorter posting has more common sense than your book.

Mozart

Caught out and from saying first that  Jordaan was tackled back like a rag doll to now that Jordaan was knocked when making tackles.  Boths actually never happend in the games he played in and frabrications.   I read your comments in detail and agreed with a lot of points you made - but I do not like to base arguements on fabrications or flashes in the pan situations.  Your comments are 90% fact and 10% prefidice and fabrication - so I always read it with interest and discard the 10% as rubbish.

I also said I was not thus far impressed with what Jordaan produced - but the highest nymber of balls passed  to him in any game he played in was 3 and he was given no opportunity to do anything of substance with those 3 balls per game.   I also wrote elsewhere that unlike last year Coetzee played a different style of game this year and was not as good as he was last year.   Based on performance he thus far this year was not in contention - but that is also subject to change if he change his style to tryand be a battering ram - to a more fluent game.   I supposehe won't do it bcause Meyer would have a fit if he does.

I admitted I was wrong about the outcome of the game last week - but I based my judgement on the good performance of the Brumbies against the Sharks and the fact that the Sharks beat the Stormers in Round 3.   There is sometimes logic in what people think - not just pure prejudice.    Howevr - I was wrong and incidentally De Jongh did miss the tackle on Speight when he scored the try of the Brumbies - so I was at least right about his defensive abilities and not fabricating things.  I also said he would knock on balls and he did - so I am still convinced that I always base my arguments on what I perceived to be facts - not fiction.  

Moz, do yourself a favour and watch the last 10 or 15min of the Bulls vs Reds game on Youtube and you will see why Serfontein is a must as a Bok starter. Sure he needs to be tested fully but he is no flash in the pan.

Disagree on Frans at 15 over Taute.......if that call was pushed then Taute would start at 13. A fit Frans will be the Bok 12 and Meyer will select Jean at 13. I would not select Jean at all as Bok rugby needs something new at centre. If Jean was still setting the world alight, I'd continue with him, but at best he has been solid. The onlt two centres that have made impressions this year are de Allende and Serfontein and maybe therein lies our future - time will tell. Sadly de Allende may struggle to see game time at the Stormers.

As for Hougaard, I never want to see him wasted on the wing again. We need a good S15 out of him and the sooner he replaces Vermaak at the Bulls the better. Vermaak has been poor. Genia made a mockery of him this past weekend. I loved Hougaards service at the start of this S15 and we know he has that attacking clout to come.

Not sure what your issue is with Coenie, he is huge.......he is solid at scrum time and his general play is second to none when it comes to a prop. A good S15 will see Coenie challenge Jannie for the Bok tighthead spot and the sooner we see Coenie start for the Boks, the better.

Posters........for comic relief, read Ou Mikes take on this......I started then had to give up after I had read through his take on backs.......hell boet its informative stuff!!!

But Ou Mike, we still love you

Saffex

You remain a good friend - so I can make fun if I wish.  Seriously I was so happy about Steyn when he came into the  Springbok  team last year and I must admit - I was very unhappy about aspects of his game and th malfunctioning of the Springbok backline.  The backline really showed no attacking ability and was as dead as th Stormes backline was in 2012.    I initially blamed Morne Steyn for kicking all the balls away and for standing to deep in the pocket   Even if they got the ball and he passed it to Francois Steyn - the defenders were on top of him and he basically cashballed a lot more than he should have done.   You must admit there was no spark in that backline. other than some individual efforts by players - such as Pietersen and Habana.  

Whn Morne left the scene - Francois Steyn was out injured - so De Villiers moved to 12 and Taute came in at 13.   The first test against the Wallabies Goosen made a huge difference to the backline performances and there were real signs of attacking flare.   After he got injured the backline in the EOYT went dead - as bad as they were earlier in the year.   Despite Mozart's talks - De Villiers was also not a house on fire - and especially in the Twickenham test De Jongh was an absent joke in bad taste.  

Despite all my protestations to the contrary the Sharks backline functioned reasonably well in the Cheetahs game - theeafter they went badly into reverse gear.    I think that Lambie did contribute to it by kicking far too much - but everybody blamed Francois Steyn - and I believe with good reason.   I think Plumtree had ample reason to act as he did in Steyn's case.    In fact the backline of the Sharks was also in limbo last week - Lambie had an exceptionally poor game and in those case where he and Bosman passed balls - it oten enough went back to the forwards - often enough because there was such superirority up frnattat a lot of forwrds were standing around in the backline.   All in all the backline is still disfunctional - but I hope that things go better in future.

No 13 cnters cannot contribute if they do not get balls from the inside players.   I believe that in four matches thus far Jordaan only got 11 balls inbackline play and he had to create space fpr himself - there was none in which he couldreally mparticipate in meaningful attacks.   Even when De Villiers was playing at13 outside De Allende he got more balls in one game than Jordaan got in all the games he played in.   A 13 cannot function without balls.    I am a great admirer of Serfontein - but if he is at 13 without getting balls - he will also not function properly.   De Jongh at best is a farce and Sadie a joke.   The othr player that played at 13 is Engelbrecht..    I do not think he is a player that should play at13 - I believe h is a bit one-dimensional - make a few meters with the ball and attacks die with him.    There is no real continuation of play in such cases at all.  

By the way the wings are even in a wrose position than the 13 - unless they do not field high kicks and look for work - they would never see any balls during games.

As to the future 12 - I would say that Serfontein is the real deal - and would like to see hoiw he performs on Saturday against the brumbies - his first start in the starting line up of the Bulls.  I do not think that Steyn should be played - and I would like to see De Allende challenging for the position as well.   I believe that the two of them would inject some life into an otherwise dead backline.

Really - my friend - I am not negative on any players - but some Springbok contenders have been disappointing this year. thus far.

That is one reason why I am looking forward very much to the return of Bismarck Du Plessis and Etzebeth - and was so disappointed about another injury to Goosen.   All three makes a huge difference to performances of theirrespective teams and also of the Springboks. 

Well Mike, none of our backs have shone this year and much of that is down to a lack of forward dominance at times and that damn SA compulsion to want to kick the damn ball away all the time.

One also has to appreciate that its that much harder these days for centres to make an impression. Jordaan has struggled to make an impression as he has had little ball, but he also needs to learn the art of running supporting lines like Conrad Smith does.

You are 100% wrong regarding JJ, one-dimensional is so far off the button its laughable. JJ always looks to beat the man with a step or swerve - like Jordaan he has recieved little ball and only had 2 full games this year. JJ is a quality player, who should thrive outside the creative Serfontein at 12.

Actually Mike, Speight was not de Jongh's man....he was marked by a forward. De Jongh turned inside to help and at best got a hand on Speight. I strongly doubt that was classified as a missed tackle. What is true, and a commentator mentioned this, is that de Jongh left too big a gap, especially given he had a forward in the line next to him. Let's keep it real!

Sorry Mozart it was the missed tackle of De Jongh.   Speight was near the sieline when h got the ball and was running slightly inwards towards th goal posts.   De Jongh was trying to tackle him - missed the tackle and landed on the grass.  I looked at it twice and am convinced that DE Jongh could have tackled him - but he diid not - end of story.

Sorry Ou Maaik....your usual BS. Go to minute 2.43 and 2.45 of the video....you will see de Jongh running into picture to join the defensive line....but leaving a gap as he overruns the play. Speight takes the ball cutting in hard onto Kitshoff. De Jongh overruns the movement and dives inside minute 3.18, but I doubt if he even gets a hand on Speight. Kitshoff does grab his jersey, but loses his grip as he is outpaced. The commentator remarks that de Jongh left too big a gap.

Just as I reported....get real!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA2Zf7QwKro

One more thread, 6 games into the season and Le Roux isn't mentioned except in passing by Saff.