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So have any Bok aspirants emerged since Wales

Started by Mozart22 REPLIES734 VIEWS· 15 Apr 2019, 19:23
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2019, 19:23
#1
15 Apr 2019, 19:23#1
Here is the team vs the Wallies: Player Province Age Prev Tests Loose-head Prop Steven Kitshoff WP 26 36. Hooker Malcolm Marx Lions 24 23. Tight-head Prop Frans Malherbe WP 27 28. Lock RG Snyman Blue Bulls 23 11. Lock Franco Mostert Lions 27 28. Flank (C) Siya Kolisi WP 27 40. Flank Pieter-Steph du Toit WP 26 45. Eighthman Duane Vermeulen Toulon 32 45. Scrumhalf Embrose Papier Blue Bulls 21 6. Flyhalf Handre Pollard Blue Bulls 24 38. Left Wing Aphiwe Dyantyi Lions 24 12. Inside Centre Damian de Allende WP 26 36. Outside Centre Jesse Kriel Blue Bulls 24 39. Right Wing Cheslin Kolbe Toulouse 25 6. Full Back Willie le Roux Wasps 29 52. Reserve Eben Etzebeth WP 27 74. Reserve Elton Jantjies Lions 28 32. Reserve Vincent Koch Saracens 28 12. Reserve Ivan van Zyl Blue Bulls 23 5. Reserve Thomas du Toit Sharks 23 8. Reserve Bongi Mbonambi WP 27 25. Reserve Francois Louw Bath 33 64. Reserve Damian Willemse WP 20 4. ........... After 9 weeks I can say conclusively that no new player has emerged. Am and Esterhozen have been better than Duh Allende and Kriel....but more because the incumbents have been so bad. So the story is more about players who look less assured than new players bashing down the door. Those who are going backwards include: Jantjies Duh Allende Malherbe Kolisi Those who are bout the same but very marginal include: Dyantyi Kriel Papier Bongi Thomas Koch Ivan van Zyl. Rassie isn't getting many new avenues from the NH or Super Rugby.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2019, 19:35
#2
15 Apr 2019, 19:35#2
That team by the way averaged 25.86....and obviously if retained would averaged 26.86 at the WC. WC winners have averaged in the high 27s to the 28s. It's a very young team and history says some experience would help.....Frans and Bismarck are the obvious candidates.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2019, 19:39
#3
15 Apr 2019, 19:39#3

The BS flowed freely - for one Mostert never played for WP.   Sure De Allende and Kriel is worse than Esterhuizen and Am.    Totally understandable from Mozart's perspective - hi seleions age based on prejudice without any regard to performance.   For one - according to him scoring of tries is of no importance in the game of rugby.   

The rest remains repetitive nonsense not worth commenting on. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2019, 20:22
#4
15 Apr 2019, 20:22#4
Straight from Genslin Springbok Rugby, a great resource, but you're right about Mostert. I have adjusted it above.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,251 posts
15 Apr 2019, 20:24
#5
15 Apr 2019, 20:24#5
There have been few new discoveries this year. Some of them have not panned out, or at least not yet. 
Fasie for the Sharks looked promising, but there has to be a place in the team for Robert Dupreez junior - so Bosch is playing at 15.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
16 Apr 2019, 04:34
#6
16 Apr 2019, 04:34#6

Nobody, niks, vokkall ............ I can't think of one new face & there's absolutely no progress on last year. I fear the worse at this year's RWC. At best we'll be colourful.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Apr 2019, 06:27
#7
16 Apr 2019, 06:27#7

Sadie at the Lions for TH prop?

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
16 Apr 2019, 07:54
#8
16 Apr 2019, 07:54#8

We were all hoping for some promising youngsters to come through this season but it's all been much of the same.

Stupid's comment on Fasi and Du Preez is about as absurd as his comments on everything else.

To even consider Fasi for national duty is laughable. He's not even worthy of the title "quota" ... and as for Du Preez ... well ... even the useless Jantjies is a better option and that's saying something.

We have a relatively solid starting front row. Akker would be an improvement on the midget Bongi. We have better cover for 1 and 3 than Beast and Koch.

We have some quality locks to select from and at this stage in time I would think that Du Toit would be the best option at 7 but that's only due to having such a shortage of decent blindside flanks. I know that some rate the Du Preez twins as possible options and I guess they should be in the squad.

Vermeulen is too old. Having your 8th man gasping for breath after the first 20 should be reason enough to disqualify him. He's had ample time to get his fitness levels right up there, but he hasn't bothered putting in any extra work.

Kolisi is a massive liability ... both as captain and as a openside flank. He should not be in the squad at all.

Van Staden has impressed me at 8 but he seems a little injury prone. Whiteley is a brilliant captain but la cks the grunt I'd like at 8. He too seems more and more prone to injury these days.

Everyone's talking about Marcell Coetzee ... personally, he couldn't really make it as a Bk when he was younger and so I can't understand why we'd want a watered down version of his best now.

The backline is a mess. Staring at 12 all the way through to the loony toon Le Roux.

Pollard and Faf are the only worthy players we have in our backline. The rest needs to be discarded soonest.

We are n trouble ... then again, what's new?

To think that we have to bring a 50% black mix in is undoubtedly the last nail in the coffin.



 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Apr 2019, 15:54
#9
16 Apr 2019, 15:54#9
Sadie was in trouble against the Beast....the strongman image was significantly dented right there.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,251 posts
16 Apr 2019, 16:11
#10
16 Apr 2019, 16:11#10
Van Staden was a joke last year when he played for the Boks. He was totally out of place. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Apr 2019, 17:58
#11
16 Apr 2019, 17:58#11

Sadie is young still...the Beast is a pro. Wait...we've got time to wait for the next big 3...much more time than for the next big 13.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
17 Apr 2019, 08:03
#12
17 Apr 2019, 08:03#12

Beast is also an old man ... who suffers from heart palpitations and uses chronic medication. To be bested by him is reason enough to give up the sport.

It's like a boxer without a KO punch.

What's the point?

Dreier scrummed Beast into the ground and you called him useless.

We need a tighthead prop now ... not in 7 years time.



DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
17 Apr 2019, 08:11
#13
17 Apr 2019, 08:11#13

RDP is a safe nothing player/flyhalf.....other than passing the ball he does nothing.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
17 Apr 2019, 08:56
#14
17 Apr 2019, 08:56#14

Agreed, Denny.

I expected a lot more from him. I thought he'd mature into something special ... but sadly, he's the same player today that he was a few years back. He's learnt nothing ... added nothing to his arsenal. Stagnated.

Very disappointing.

What would we have done without Pollard?


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Apr 2019, 11:37
#15
17 Apr 2019, 11:37#15

Lets look at some deficiencies in the Springbok team and then see where we are at present:-

Loosies

Although Kolisi looks better this year than in 2018, he is not an ideal opensider - he is not an ideal opensider since he does not compete at breakdowns - a big problem with the loosies.   I thin that Kriel in fact is a better 6 and even Kwagga - but they have physical problems as well.   I saw that no 6 playing for the Maties in the Varsity Cup and he is the future one to look out for,

At 7 we have Du Toit - basically a lock, but versatile enough to play at 7.   Defnitely a vast improvement of what we had for the past 6 years.   We need not look at that starter, but what about the bench selection/

At 8 we have a serious problem.   Vermeulen is out of steam and his performances indicate that he cannot play all out in more than 30 minutes in games.   His productivity is low - being it in defense or on attack,    Whiteley is not physical enough to play at 8 and the Du Preez twins have limitations - but preferable to both Vermeulen and Whiteley,   There may be a solution here by - like Montpellier - using Du Plessis at 8 or looking at Marcel Coetzee who is doing very well for Ulster in that position.

The Halfbacks

I have no problem with Pollard and De Klerk,  but where to with the back-ups,  A year ago the talk was about Jantjies and Du Preez -  but both has been atrocious in Super Rugby this year,

Personally I believe that the answer should be Reinach at scrummie and since the WC squad requires a third scrummie - the situation is we have no real prospect coming through in the short run.   The probable choice would be between Papier, Van Zyl or Schreuder.

As to flyhalf we have no potential back-up.   Du Preez has been poor and Jantjies no better.   The only two flyhalfs playing in Europe are Van der Walt (Edinburgh)  and Goosen (Montpellier).   Both have limitations.  

I would rather see Willemse as back-up flyhalf than either of the other four players mentioned.  The longer term prospect is Jordan Chait of the Maties Varsity Cup team - the best flyhalf outside of Pollock that showed any real abilities at flyhalf. 

The Center situation  

We have seen so much garbage on site the past year as to the center situation there is no real answer.   Most participants are not objective on the issue and are severely prejudiced against certain players.   That made then  see non-existent qualities in some players  and ignoring deficiencies  in the same players,

Let me start of further discussion as to my own view on the situation.   The only center I have no problems with is Kriel - the others all have serious limitations. 

Personally if I have to choose between De Allende and Esterhuizen - I have frequently stated that De Allende has fewer deficiencies than Esterhuizen.   As to alternatives one ha s to consider Jan Serfontein  (Montpellier).    In the longer term I think I was seriously impressed with Chris Smith of the  Maties Varsity Cup team - but I do not think he would be considered  this year.

As to the 13 back-up Am despite his defense problem  is the only 13 I have seen this year that  I would consider for further advancement.   Maybe the back-up should come from DH van der Merwe (Edinburgh) or Impi Visser of the 7's.

 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Apr 2019, 14:10
#16
17 Apr 2019, 14:10#16
Time to try Willemse at 12 next to Pollard.....it's a throw of the dice, but better than accepting the proven mediocrity of the Allende/Kriel combination. Willemse is our most dangerous runner in the half gap.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
17 Apr 2019, 14:38
#17
17 Apr 2019, 14:38#17

We have nothing to lose.

Still prefer him at 15 though ... but anything to rid us of De Allende gets my nod.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Apr 2019, 15:50
#18
17 Apr 2019, 15:50#18

Mozart

Willemse has played at inside center in 2017 in the Under 20WC and was excellent.  However, he has never played in that position since.   He may be an answer in that position - but need experience on higher level - which he is not getting,

I am afraid that we are in trouble - we need a back=up flyhalf and a back-up fullback in the squad and if he is to be the inside center - what then?   I did not mention him as inside center because of his virtual total lack of experience on that level since 2017, as well as the issue of back-up for two critical positions.

At least there should be other grounds than personal impression removed from the concept of performance for selection suggestions on site,              

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Apr 2019, 18:34
#19
17 Apr 2019, 18:34#19
Bullshit Kriel has been good all year and been better than Am. Dan du Preez has been better than Vermeulen and i prefer the look of Jaco Coetzee Faf is the obvious choice at 9. Nkosi or Mapimpi for Kolbe. Anyone is better than Mostert at lock. My Bok side would be: 15. Willie 14. Nkosi 13. Kriel 12. Serfontein 11. Dyantyi 10. Pollard 9. Faf 1. Kitshoff 2. Marx 3. Louw 4. Etzebeth 5. Snyman 6. Kolisi 7. PSDT 8. Dan du Preez 16. Aker 17. Pierre Schoeman 18. Thomas 19. Lood 20. Jaco Kriel 21. Reinach 22. Jantjies 23. de Allende
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Apr 2019, 18:45
#20
17 Apr 2019, 18:45#20

Jmtjies would be a sill selection - he has been atrocious causing the Lions backline to misfire,  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Apr 2019, 18:45
#21
17 Apr 2019, 18:45#21

Jmtjies would be a sill selection - he has been atrocious causing the Lions backline to misfire,  

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Apr 2019, 18:46
#22
17 Apr 2019, 18:46#22
Bullshit Jantjies is a class act
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Apr 2019, 21:01
#23
17 Apr 2019, 21:01#23

Kolbe is a must for the bench. Havoc for the last 20 to 30 min.

— END OF THREAD —

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