So it's finally settled . . .

Just over a decade ago a fundamental schism happened on this message board, splitting posters into two camps, the one that supported Pieter-Steph du Toit and the one that supported Eben Etzebeth.

To be fair, those in the PSdT camp didn't hate EE the way the EE camp hated PSdT, but on this board over many years, a single positive mention of anything PSdT did on the rugby field generally resulted in loud shrieking, endless statistics, a lot of AI input and an invariable chest-beat saying that Eben is so much tougher/faster/important or whatever . . . this despite PSdT outplaying EE in over 90% of the games that the two played together . . . and that's being conservative.

I know I'm generalising a bit here and there are plenty of posters who have rated both PSdT and EE but I do think it's fair to say that for a long time, this board has been split into those two camps.

Now it looks like the argument is finally settled.

On the one hand we have Pieter-Steph du Toit, twice World Player of the Year, Player of the RWC final, internationally recognised as one of the world's finest players and - more importantly - still a vital player for the Springboks and he will be a key factor in the Springboks bid to win an unprecedented hat trick of RWC victories.

On the other hand we have Eben Etzebeth, widely recognised as the bully boy of world rugby, famous for running great lengths to get involved in any handbags, a player whose form has steadily declined in the last two seasons to the extent that right now, on merit, he's fighting for a bench spot at best and who has now stained his reputation with a disgraceful eye-gouge which could end his career.

So is this debate finally settled? Can the egg-faced fools who have derided, scorned and ridiculed PSdT while gushing over Eben and calling him the greatest ever player at any opportunity finally admit they backed the wrong horse?

Yeah right! Like there's any chance of that happening . . .

LMAO!

This is the first I have heard of any such split Rooitwit.

Both are very great players and deserve the utmost respect.

I heard that Eben has only had 1 Red card at test level before this incident an incredibly good record if true.

Re this latest incident it does seem that there was provocation from the wee Welsh lad who was humiliated by what had happened and was trying to assert himself illegally.

Sure the MGU led by arch Mampara Mozzietard have had a vicious vendetta against Du Toit for a decade or so. Nobody will ever forget the rank stupidity of this or the trashing of our great coach Rassie.

Their names are mud and how they ever recover any cred without an abject apology and complete about turn is an unknown to me.

Both equally great players

As confrontational as Eben is, he has never been dirty as his record proved

Which makes this current incident very uncharacteristic of him. He must have been provoked but ultimately there is zero justification for his actions

Whst Eben should have done is just punched the guy and lived with the consequences

This attack started in 2013 when Meyer was tryng to get Matfield back from reiremen and both Dave and I criticized the effort and mentioned Du Toit as a better option. It was like a red rag for a bull and Mozart launched an unlimited attack on Du Toit, Whene ver Du Toit was injured eh clebrated the injury on site.

Matfield was not the shadow of a playe eh used to be and was not effective in line-outs anymore. He ws routinely outjumped by Whitelock in the 2014 AB tests and in the WC 2015 he played in the Japan disaster and the blame was put on Kriel in the Japan disaster - noton a malfunctioning Sprngbok team that effectively lost the test, Matfoedld palayed in the test for aboput 30 minutes and walked of the field and was replaced by De Jager in all thee remaining tests until the AB semi where Mozart blamed De Jager and De A lende for losing the test lying constanty what happened. In the semi Mafleld was outjumped by Whitlock in the first Sring bok throw-in and the AB's attacked and drove the Springboks back. bout ten minutes the attack by the Spring boks took the AB's back and a very easy conversion would ahve resuledd when the ref penalized the AB's - but Matfield grabbed a AB player around his neck and the openalty was reversed and the result was an inevitable loss for the Spriingboks. In the end Matfield did play in the bronze medal game against a weakened Afrgentine team and was MOM. Tat wa shis last ame for the Springboks. I neve ahd anything against Matfield I just was agaaisnt his return from retirement and that proved to be true,

The attack by Mozart against Du Toit and De Allende ever since 2014 comntinued or years afterwards. But the attack intensify when Erasmus became the Spring bok Head copachh in 2018 and started a rbuilding of the Sringbok team. Mozart wanted White re-appointed as Spring bok coach and his hatred of Ersmus became worse and worse all te time.

It wa unfortunate that some posters believe the BS Mozart was spreading on site and that is still ongoing.

I do not think what has happened over the years and demonizing the coach and the players should be off-limits on a site like this one.

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"Both equally great players"

Nope. There may have been a time some years back when Eben was playing at the level PSdT always plays at, but personally I think PSdT outperformed Eben in nearly every game they ever played in together.

But let's just say you're right and agree that there was a time when they were equally great players, PSdT remains a great player while even before this disgraceful act, Eben had dropped off in the last two or three years. So apart from the two World Rugby Player of the Year awards, the many big game Man of the Match awards and recognition as one of the greatest if not the greatest blindside flanker of all time, PSdT also has longevity on his CV which Eben doesn't.

As for the eye-gouging being uncharacteristic, I disagree. Eben has always been a time bomb waiting to happen and it's not because of cards he's received or bans or anything, it's more to do with the uncontrolled and psychotic rage you see all over his face every time there's confrontation on the field. Some might call that passion or normal behaviour for the "enforcer", but I think it's more to do with whatever it was that Eben took as a teenage to grow from a skinny beanpole into a giant with biceps the size of his 17 year old thighs.

I don't know for a fact that Eben suffers from Roid Rage but come on, look at his physical progression between the ages of 17 and 21 and look at how quickly he loses his cool on the field. Join the dots.

Great player though and not for nothing is he the most capped Springbok of all time . . . but sadly he'll be remembered more for this moment of madness that could well end his career.

Disagree, I’d take Eben over PSDT but only just

This season however, Eben has looked his age

Here’s the lie:

’but on this board over many years, a single positive mention of anything PSdT did on the rugby field generally resulted in loud shrieking, endless statistics, a lot of AI input .

So ‘over the years’ we had a lot of AI input. Er no….AI in the form of ChatGTP was only available in 2023 and I doubt it was ever used on the Board before 2024. I can’t recall it ever being used with respect to Dud Toit, but it may have been recently, certainly not over the years.

The reason stats are so effective in studying Dud Toit is because only one stat is ever unusual….tackles made….but only in a few matches like WC finals, All the other stats are mediocre. So is it hype or reality. Opinion doesn’t resolve that question.

Mozart

You were told years ago that their are advanced computerized service that cover everything every player contributed in matches and basic statistics you use is BS. Meyer and Coetzee refused to use he relevant system and tthata ccounted for their failure as coaches, ,

World rugby uses that system to evaluate performance evaluation on a basis ten times more accurate than the ESPN stats, So does every other major national or franchise/clubs do - but you became totally illogical and said Erasmus is too stupid to use any advanced systen relating to player evaluation.

You went into a unlimited hate capaign against Erasmus - matched only by your hatred of Du Toit and De Allende and you spread endless lies on this site what happened during matches. That is why you have lost all ceredibbility on what you write on site,

When I joined the site initially I was an all-out supporter of you - but by 2010 I left the site for two years and only returned to te site when Denny contacted me and asked me to renew membership - but that is when I found you have become a total wreck when it comes to player perforances and with the years it got worse every year,

When you wrote something on site which you aftwerwwards denied - namely it would have been better for retainng Coetze as Head coach than appointing Erasmus - it became clear to me that you gave gone really disorientated. You apparently wants White with his history of failure as coach - appointed as Springbok Head coach and that represented your hate campaign against Erasmus,

Sorry about what you write on sie s hatrefiul and not realistic at all. I suggest that you change your attitude and start being realistic on site,

. . , ,

The site didn’t exist in 2010, but don’t let that deter you from commenting on what you did on it at that time.

The site existed, we just didn't know about it yet.

What year did we all start communicating with each other on whatever first platform that was back then?

You likely can't see "ems" because they are tiny, almost invisible insects called no-see-ums (also known as biting midges or sand flies). They are a nuisance because they cause painful, itchy bites despite being hard to spot, often measuring less than 3 millimeters long.

Saffex, I started posting on the old Supersport.co.za board in 1998 and you, Ou Maaik, Baboon-ou, Moffie and Dense were already there.

Certainly by 2003 ….we were on a Supersport site I believe, and then in 2010 ish the Barlee abomination. Starting here in 2012.

Moz, you are a member here since July 10, 2010, before Barlee started SuperSupporter and after Supersport closed their forum....you came back here in 2012 after the tiff with Barney...Vlagman was a member here under Ceradyne even before Supersport closed...I can't find Vlag's profile to see when.

Ok wow nearly 30 years chaps

I moved here in 99 and remember having never used a PC before coming here.

I used to spend ages fumbling my way around trying to get to grips with using the internet and most of that time was rugby related so it must have been then that I discovered the SA rugby message board and joined you lot

My first board where I met evrybuddy wus I think ... SARugby.........the home of Springboks & the shites pulled the plug on the eve of a test match ! We had the posts looking like snakes & ladders, after that came Supersport.

That rings a bell Bob

I don't know what you guys are going on about. One is still great and one were great. I guess you know who the latter I'm hinting at.

PTSD has won player of the year twice.

The apple of the eye was the most fierce lock since Bakkies. However this season he has been Papzebeth. Given he hardly played for the sharks you would think he would be back to his old self but let's see what happens later in the week

I preferred those snakes and ladders posts, blob :)

You’re right Draad….Mike, Shark and I joined on the same day in 2010, as did Flash, presumably in his esteemed role.

I was never a member of Supersport, I posted on SARugby, when Supersport closed down some of you joined SA Rugby. Following the closure of SA Rugby we joined this site.

I still have some surfing friends from the 60s who I am in touch with regularly. Quite a few American pals from the 70s I still play golf with….and the inhabitants of this rugby zoo. Reading these old posts brings back a lot of memories….L’Chaim, the best toast of all!

I started at SARugby, went to Supersport, then Supersupporter now here. In the early years Keo had a message board that attracted a bit of traffic