and that was the end of the JJ vs de Jongh contest
Captain30,741 posts
12 May 2014, 14:53
#1
12 May 2014, 14:53#1
So JJ took all of 2min to slip de Jongh
Started by Saffolk 27 REPLIES381 VIEWS· 12 May 2014, 14:53
sharkbok
Captain23,295 posts
Captain23,295 posts
12 May 2014, 16:29
#2
12 May 2014, 16:29#2
Dejong surely would make team of the week, not JJ. One great try, and another try assist.
Has JJ scored this season?
Has JJ scored this season?
Captain30,741 posts
12 May 2014, 16:34
#3
12 May 2014, 16:34#3
No way in hell would de Jongh make team of the week when he has a 50% strike rate when it comes to tackling.......great try my arse, it was a simple crash over in the corner and as for his try assist, it was a step in open field play.......two solid enough moments in the day but for the rest he did stuff all and he cant tackle.
On the day JJ got the better of him simply because he beat de Jongh one on one and had a great defensive game making 14 tackles and missing only 1. de Jongh made 2 tackles and missed 2......one of which was JJ..........a centre who cant tackle, cannot make team of the week
Yes JJ has scored this season
Wake up and LEARN you clown
Pro9,905 posts
12 May 2014, 16:40
#4
12 May 2014, 16:40#4
Your flogging a dead horse Stupid!!
No matter how many posts you post in favour of the useless JJ ... no matter how many fabricated lies you try to feed us ... you'll not convince anyone of the chumps supposed brilliance.
He's talentless.
Accept it and move on!!
Captain30,741 posts
12 May 2014, 16:44
#5
12 May 2014, 16:44#5
Which lies you stupid prick?
Let me guess you missed JJ running straight past de Jongh?
Pro2,580 posts
12 May 2014, 17:24
#6
12 May 2014, 17:24#6
Heres an Unbiast perspective, if De Jongh could tackle 13 for Boks. JJs solid but wouldent be my 13. De Allende is my best bet, seems better on the wing tho. 13 is a real issue for the Boks, we could be nice and throw you one of our hand me downs. Mmmm lets see Francis Saili, Ryan Crotty, Charlie Ngtai. Heck alot more reliable then the former. One of the main core roles as a 13 at test lvl imo, is to be at least a solid defender, making a few breaks in open play and thats it cnt convince. Look at Fekitoa he creates space, he creates oppurtinities, Du Jongh great side step, but hes more a finisher. If i was picking the boks for June Tests.
1. Malhbe 2. Bismark 3. Oustahazen 4. Estebeth 5. Willimse 6. Marcell Coetzee 7. Du Pleesi 8. Kankowski 9. Houggard 10. Goosen 11. Du Jongh 12. J. De Villiars 13. JJ 14. Damian De Allende 15. Le Roux
16. Strauss 17. Van Der Merwe 18. De Jager 19. Whitely 20. Pretorious 21. Louis Poltigieter 22. Mapoe
Clearly some of this team wouldent see the light of day. But using De Allende and Du Jongh as Utility Players could work.
1. Malhbe 2. Bismark 3. Oustahazen 4. Estebeth 5. Willimse 6. Marcell Coetzee 7. Du Pleesi 8. Kankowski 9. Houggard 10. Goosen 11. Du Jongh 12. J. De Villiars 13. JJ 14. Damian De Allende 15. Le Roux
16. Strauss 17. Van Der Merwe 18. De Jager 19. Whitely 20. Pretorious 21. Louis Poltigieter 22. Mapoe
Clearly some of this team wouldent see the light of day. But using De Allende and Du Jongh as Utility Players could work.
Captain49,914 posts
12 May 2014, 17:32
#7
12 May 2014, 17:32#7
I'd say de Jongh was a 7.5 in that game...JJ about a 6. Another puzzling non contribution from JJ while his fellow players carried the game. De Jongh's try was excellent and his break before that, and the timing of his pass were both clinical.
Captain30,741 posts
12 May 2014, 17:36
#8
12 May 2014, 17:36#8
3ku1, apart from your new boy at 13 (Fik), there is nothing to write home about at 13 in NZ as well. Smith, like Jean are past their best days and both sides need to move on from these old boys.
de Jongh is not test standard for the simple reason that he is not big enough. JJ showed some real clout on attack last year, especially in the last test against NZ, but he has suffered under the Bulls conservative gameplan this year and has had little opportunities with ball in hand.
Serfontein walks it at 12 for me for the Boks, he shows his class despite the little ball he gets with the Bulls. JJ is my choice at 13 and I'd have de Allende as his back-up. de Allende is not a 12 and is wasted on the wing. His ideal spot would be 13
Captain30,741 posts
12 May 2014, 17:47
#9
12 May 2014, 17:47#9
de Jongh was yet again a liability in defence - FACT 50% is just not good enough and no way in hell comes close to a 7.5......his try was simple as was his step of a forward.
JJ beat de Jongh with ease one on one
Pro2,580 posts
12 May 2014, 17:54
#10
12 May 2014, 17:54#10
Re smith and jdv, they may be past their best years. But its in your oldee years in sport where sometimes your in your prime, and where you hit your peak. You shouldent just get rid of classy players because they hit a certain age. Smith is imo still the best defending centre in the world, without Smith Canes would arguably lose every game, hes vital to theur team. His combination with Nonu is still vital to the Abs. Look at Thorn in his 40s still going strong, all tho injured atm, prob wnt btter then old matfeild. Yeh serfeintains class. Hes bn gtting into some form the past few weeks, forgot about him. So yeh Serfeintain and JJ. De Jongh could do well as a utility off the bench, hes a great attacking player.
Captain49,914 posts
12 May 2014, 17:55
#11
12 May 2014, 17:55#11
JJ lost the last test against NZ by overrunning a pass near the line on a set move.....isolating himself and getting turned before the half for a NZ try....and missing Barrett for the RC clinching try. He also nearly cost us a loss in Bargieland by hopelessly missing his opposite number Bosch for a try. He was then dropped for the YE tour. Here is a generous Ellis Park rating:
13. JJ Engelbrecht – 6
Had a very good first 30 minutes
but fell off the pace in the second half and slipped the tackle on Beauden
Barrett when he scored the All Blacks' fourth try.
One of the lowest rated Boks, and this is an example of real clout on attack?
Pro2,580 posts
12 May 2014, 18:01
#12
12 May 2014, 18:01#12
You cant blame JJ for that Abs hd some serious momentum around then, and Barrats a freak of a player haha. Regardless of overrunning or lapses on defense, you create your own oppurtunities in 80 mins, and make your own luck, all the great sides take advantage. JJ has some of the best Tackling Completion Percentage in Super Rugby this year, but test lvl is a different beast.
Captain49,914 posts
12 May 2014, 18:08
#13
12 May 2014, 18:08#13
Your "beat" that you trumpet in the headline to this post Sapp, was a totally lateral run that went nowhere. Reminiscent of the Fury darts back into the pack. De Jongh was covering him for a straight run....JJ decided to run across the field. After that non event JJ disappeared. De Jongh by contrast was involved in two tries....it wasn't even close.
Coach57,555 posts
12 May 2014, 18:14
#14
12 May 2014, 18:14#14
Mozart
If players get space they can perform well. Lets take the case of De Jongh. He was in space and it all started with De Allende joining the line inside of De Villiers and De Jongh. The same applies to the try he scored. De Jongh cannot create space for other players - he can finish if others put him into space with virtually no defenders that can block his way.
The main problem with De Jongh is his piss poor defence. He seems to go the wrong way this year - his missed tackle ratio last year was 23.3%. In the last three games it was 47% - in other words he nearly miss half of all attempted tackles. He is a serious problem for the Stormers - and that is a fact.
Personally I think the answer for the Springbok at 13 is De Allende. He is speedy enough and has the ability to break tackles/draw in more than one defender and off-load and passed balls in the process. In the past three games he was the source/key starting point of five tries scored by the Stormers, while he scored two himself.
My problem with Engelbrecht is not his defense - there were serious signs of improvement this year - but rather his lack of attacking ability. He does not convince me that he is the answer at 13.
If players get space they can perform well. Lets take the case of De Jongh. He was in space and it all started with De Allende joining the line inside of De Villiers and De Jongh. The same applies to the try he scored. De Jongh cannot create space for other players - he can finish if others put him into space with virtually no defenders that can block his way.
The main problem with De Jongh is his piss poor defence. He seems to go the wrong way this year - his missed tackle ratio last year was 23.3%. In the last three games it was 47% - in other words he nearly miss half of all attempted tackles. He is a serious problem for the Stormers - and that is a fact.
Personally I think the answer for the Springbok at 13 is De Allende. He is speedy enough and has the ability to break tackles/draw in more than one defender and off-load and passed balls in the process. In the past three games he was the source/key starting point of five tries scored by the Stormers, while he scored two himself.
My problem with Engelbrecht is not his defense - there were serious signs of improvement this year - but rather his lack of attacking ability. He does not convince me that he is the answer at 13.
sharkbok
Captain23,295 posts
Captain23,295 posts
12 May 2014, 18:23
#15
12 May 2014, 18:23#15
Saffex
Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7774RE: So JJ took all of 2min to slip de Jongh
May 12, 2014, 15:36:11
Their is nothing to write home about about new players, but the All Blacks and Springboks should move away from established test legends just because they are not young? ?
Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7774RE: So JJ took all of 2min to slip de Jongh
May 12, 2014, 15:36:11
there is nothing to write home about at 13 in NZ as well. Smith, like Jean are past their best days and both sides need to move on from these old boys.
Their is nothing to write home about about new players, but the All Blacks and Springboks should move away from established test legends just because they are not young? ?
Captain30,741 posts
12 May 2014, 18:30
#16
12 May 2014, 18:30#16
Moz stop speaking complete and utter shit. JJ did not overrun a pass, useless Morne passed it behind him. He never isolated himself, he effected a perfect beating of Cruden, thanks to his captain initiating the attack. As captain you do not pass the ball wide if you don't want your partner to attack.......he missed Barrett after Jean, then Morne missed him......the only reason he missed Barrett was because he was covering wide and had to adjust to mop up the misses by Jean and Morne - all FACTS and complete opposites to your biased takes on those passages of play. JJ was outstanding in that test
As for JJ beating de Jongh, it might not have amounted to much after the initial beat, but there is no getting away from the fact that JJ beat de Jongh with ease. It was you that maintained that de Jongh would get the better of JJ on the day. I said he would not come close and I was right. JJ stopped de Jongh in his tracks everytime he tried to beat him. JJ beat de Jongh one on one - game set and match
Captain49,914 posts
12 May 2014, 20:39
#17
12 May 2014, 20:39#17
Well de Joingh would probably have beaten JJ but he wasn't there was he.....missing from where the real action was as de Jongh carved up the Bools for two tries. That lateral beat maak niks.De Jongh the higher rated player by far.
Captain30,741 posts
12 May 2014, 21:29
#18
12 May 2014, 21:29#18
JJ made 14 tackles so I'm guessing you are speaking shit again........for 14 tackles tells me he was right in the action. Unlike de Jongh who made 2 and missed 2. You wish de Jongh had carved up the Bulls......the only thing he was doing was missing 50% of his tackles.
The guy is useless and in the one on one, JJ beat him end of story. Your assertion last week was that de Jongh would beat JJ - that has fallen flat on your face......for the only beating that took place was right at the start of the game, when JJ beat de Jongh with ease.
de Jongh continues to prove what a liability he is defensively
sharkbok
Captain23,295 posts
Captain23,295 posts
12 May 2014, 22:02
#19
12 May 2014, 22:02#19
Anyone with at least half a brain cell can see Dejong had more impact on the game. The Stormers forwards got dominated as the game went on, otherwise it could have been more try time from Dejong.
Captain49,914 posts
12 May 2014, 22:31
#20
12 May 2014, 22:31#20
The point I'm making is that JJ was never there to defend against de Jongh....what he was doing heaven only knows. Hard for de Jongh to beat his marker when his marker is always awol when it counts. Sharkbok sums things up very well.
Coach57,555 posts
12 May 2014, 22:42
#21
12 May 2014, 22:42#21
Mozart
Why don't you watch rugby and take note of what really is going on? In the case of the Coleman try Engelbrecht was tackling Kolbie as he was in the process of passing the ball inside - that is where he was.
Heaven and the public knew where he was - you are alone in not knowing in that one case.
I am all for criticizing Engelbrecht - but it is always wise to stick to facts and not produce fictional rubbish.
Why don't you watch rugby and take note of what really is going on? In the case of the Coleman try Engelbrecht was tackling Kolbie as he was in the process of passing the ball inside - that is where he was.
Heaven and the public knew where he was - you are alone in not knowing in that one case.
I am all for criticizing Engelbrecht - but it is always wise to stick to facts and not produce fictional rubbish.
Captain49,914 posts
12 May 2014, 23:02
#22
12 May 2014, 23:02#22
You miss the point OOm.....it's a tautology.....if JJ was never there to tackle de Jongh, de Jongh couldn't beat him. Think about it for a while, it may dawn on you.
Coach57,555 posts
12 May 2014, 23:30
#23
12 May 2014, 23:30#23
Mozart
Stick to facts - not "The point I'm making is that JJ was never there to defend against de Jongh....what he was doing heaven only knows. Those are not a tautology - it is a misrepresentation of facts.
The only players I know that went AWOL is De Jongh in the Twickenham and Murrayfield tests lin 2012 and Fransie Steyn who goes AWOL in the head whenever he plays at flyhalf or center.
Be it as it may - the fact is that I cannot see either De Jongh or JJ at 13 and definitely not Fourie as well. Looking at the games he played in - and he is young and made a few mistakes as well - the total package at 13 to my mind would be De Allende. He is a very strong ball carrier and shrug off many tackles with relative ease and he is very good in off-loasding balls in tackle situations. He made major contributions to tries scored by the Stormers and he scored tries himself.
I have a feeling De Villiers prefer to play outside of De Allende exactly because of those qualities - which none of the other three p layers mentioned have.
Stick to facts - not "The point I'm making is that JJ was never there to defend against de Jongh....what he was doing heaven only knows. Those are not a tautology - it is a misrepresentation of facts.
The only players I know that went AWOL is De Jongh in the Twickenham and Murrayfield tests lin 2012 and Fransie Steyn who goes AWOL in the head whenever he plays at flyhalf or center.
Be it as it may - the fact is that I cannot see either De Jongh or JJ at 13 and definitely not Fourie as well. Looking at the games he played in - and he is young and made a few mistakes as well - the total package at 13 to my mind would be De Allende. He is a very strong ball carrier and shrug off many tackles with relative ease and he is very good in off-loasding balls in tackle situations. He made major contributions to tries scored by the Stormers and he scored tries himself.
I have a feeling De Villiers prefer to play outside of De Allende exactly because of those qualities - which none of the other three p layers mentioned have.
Captain49,914 posts
12 May 2014, 23:50
#24
12 May 2014, 23:50#24
Sadly OOm your feelings have proven to be hopelessly wrong so often they are of no interest.
Coach57,555 posts
13 May 2014, 00:35
#25
13 May 2014, 00:35#25
Mozart
A flip answer from a clueless site member - what a pity, he cannot think.
A flip answer from a clueless site member - what a pity, he cannot think.
Pro2,580 posts
13 May 2014, 06:57
#26
13 May 2014, 06:57#26
I dont think it automatically means JJ for instance is officially better then De Jongh, just because he beat him once on attack. Considerings De Jonghs Tackling Completion Percentage which is around 40%, its not just JJ who he slips on.
Captain30,741 posts
13 May 2014, 17:55
#28
13 May 2014, 17:55#28
Um, Moz......may I suggest you go watch that game again......within the 14 tackles JJ made, a good few were stopping de Jongh in his tracks......unlike de Jongh who missed 2 from 2.......now therein lies the real issue
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