So....the Kiwis do need us

RE New s24

Cape Town - South African teams leaving Super Rugby for tournaments in Europe would have dire consequences for New Zealand Rugby, a Kiwi scribe has warned.

A recent report indicated that SA teams were planning to leave Super Rugby for the PRO14 competition in Europe.

The Wales Online website reported that the Sharks would be the next South African side to join the PRO14 competition for the 2019/20 season, with the Lions and Stormers potentially following suit the season thereafter.

SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos strongly denied the report, but Mark Reason, a columnist for New Zealand’s Stuff.co.nz website, feels the southern hemisphere governing body’s boss may be in for a rude awakening.

“This is feverishly wishful thinking from the chief executive of SANZAAR. The reports are full of substance and make absolutely terrifying reading for New Zealand Rugby,” Reason wrote.

“If South Africa do decide to leave but for a skeleton team or two in Super Rugby, then the competition's revenue streams will plummet. Such a fall would be enough to bankrupt NZR by 2023. At their current rate of spending, New Zealand Rugby need a significant rise in income from their next Super Rugby television contract just to break even.”

SANZAAR’s TV rights deal expires at the end of 2019 and Reason fears that South Africa will seek greener pastures in the north.

Reason also admitted that a move to the northern hemisphere would be in favour of South African rugby.

“You have to ask the question - why wouldn't South Africa go to Europe? Here are all the points in favour of a move. The compatible time zones mean that the away games will all be on TV at prime times. The flight time from Johannesburg to London is five hours shorter than it is to Auckland.

“The combination of the PRO14 competition and the European Cup are commercially way more valuable than Super Rugby can ever hope to be. It is the economics of population size.

“And of course half of South Africa's top players are already playing in Europe. But in favour of Super Rugby there is, er, taking suggestions from the back - the high standard of New Zealand teams raising standards, you say. Maybe, but I'm struggling to see that on the balance sheet. South Africa's fans don't like seeing their teams being constantly humiliated.”

In a strongly worded press statement released last week, SANZAAR said all its member unions were still on board and involved in an ongoing review to determine Super Rugby's future up to 2030.

"As part of this process the member unions have fully committed to the strategy and their future participation," Marinos said in the statement.

"Any talk of a change to the stakeholder relationship and partners withdrawing, creation of new teams in new markets and trans-Tasman competitions is unsubstantiated speculation and simply wrong."

I thought this was all just talk, but it seems there is some substance and logic to SA pulling out of Super Rugby, even though that would cripple NZ rugby. This is just capitalism at work with teams going where the money is, and it is what it is, but simply being one of the best rugby nations is not enough anymore. And that goes for SA and NZ. Also, it seems to me that Australia is having a massive issue keeping rugby union alive, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them bailing on Super Rugby sometime soon either.

I can't quite put my finger on what it is exactly, but a mate of mine had a free ticket to watch the Bulls vs Sharks game at Loftus this past weekend, I turned it down for a braai. 10 years ago i would have resorted to violence to get hold of that ticket. Something significant has changed in Rugby for me personally. I still love the game, but I battle to get as emotionally involved and in to it as I used to.  

Its probably down to a combination of things, off the top of my head; quotas, poor performance of our teams and predictability of results, lack of national pride, the exodus of players to the North, which has weakened our player pool significantly, and poor officiating. The empty stadiums would indicate that I am not alone in thinking like this.   

The problem about the financial impact o NZ rugby was covered by me in an earlier thread on the issue.   Mozart as per normal disputed me on the issue, but even this article proved that I was correct//

However, the comments came from an article by Reason - a NZ scribe disliked by the Kiwi members on site and they would regard the above article in the same vein.  

There are serious dangers as to continuation of Super Rugby as a competition and the answer will be what DSTV (Supersport) wants to happen.   If they say a deal with Europe would benefit them more than the present deal offers them - then Super Rugby as we know it will be ended.   

I think there is a need for cool heads and in their own interest the NZ and  Aussie rugby authorities should deal constructively with the present problems faced in Super Rugby.  The kind of controversy as to refereeing should be avoided at all costs, otherwise DSTV is likely to opt out of funding of the series because of public demand..       

There is usually a small fire where one sees smoke. I hope we can fan it into an inferno and leave these coconuts to their own devices.

I am so tired of them and their ways.

It just makes a lot of sense for us to give this washed out, meaningless tournament up. It doesn't benefit us at all.

We've spoken of the travel issues for years now ... and of course that's viewed by these people as just another excuse from us Yarpies. Just as long as they have the advantage then all's good with the world.

Time to take our money and go else where.  

Ka mate

It is our worthless money that keeps NZ and Aussie Rugby going - without that money they will be bankrupt and lose all their players to play in Europe to earn money.   So if you write BS - think again. 

By the way since when is $1,9 billion useless money - that is the amount DSTV pay Sanzaar for screening rights of games over a three year period.    

Well ... at least you can hire your refs out to teams that need a win ... and then there's always the haka.

You are sure to make a lot of coin pulling your silly little faces at strangers. Careful not to frighten the children in the crowd.

The funniest of them all was when Dan Carter stuck his tongue out and tried to look mean.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahhaaa!!!

Cloudy

Unlike some of the other SA members I m against the discontinuation  of Super Rugby and think it would be disastrous for especially rugby in Australia and even NZ because of financial restriction.  For example the  Australians get circa $200 million per year from Sanzaar  for Super Rugby Participation  - where will they will get that kind of money from without Super Rugby - their rugby players and public support is too limited ?   The same applies to NZ, Argentina and to  lesser extent Japan 

It would not be in the interest of SH rugby and I think it should be sorted out within Sanzaar.  Recent controversy - such as the refereeing debacle - is not helping and Sanzaar should sort the matter out so it does not recur next year.   

Trust Beeno to be way ahead of the curve as I spoke of the benefits of going north years ago.What Beeno thinks today the world thinks tomorrow. Bwahahahahahahahahhaha

This no doubt is all a revelation to that backward oak wee cc who is a laggard of note!

Oaks we are the sun, moon and starts to the poor kbbs!

Seems like your running off to find a competition you might actually win .

Our rugby was good before you lot and it will survive even if you run away "oop north "

I daresay the NZ government will step in to ensure our teams get to retain their players and we may well see a new Pasifika team in the mix with whatever teams remain .

So all this talk about how hard done by saffa teams have it with travel was just bullshit eh ?

Wardad

Where will the money come from to cover expenses with the $200 million coming from DSTV, through Sanzzaar vanishing?    The fact is that NZ and the Pacific Islands do not a big enough view community to justify a contract with TV of that magnitude and in Australia rugby is limited to a small viewership - so another deficiency.

Lets hope the problems can be solved and everybody really supporting rugby will be happy and the attackers will be less so.   So lets keep calm and hope the present problems will be solved.

You may not know - but the concept of the Super Rugby concept was initiated by SA and the contract with DSTV was negotiated by the then SARU President - Dr Louis Luyt.   The idea was then negotiated with the NZ and Aus Boards - and that started the Super Rugby process we know at present.   It would be a tragedy with serious damage to SH rugby - so please do not go on the rampage as the case is with some of the local members.

There is another factor and that is what World Rugby will think about the issue.  The abandoning of Super Rugby - one of their most prestigious programmes - will not be liked by them - as the impact on world rugby would be very negative.         

Whether everyone can survive without wee ab rugby. Hahhahahahahahahaha hilarous one Cloudster! Such modesty!

The move north makes a lot of sense but probably wont happen for a while yet. Givi ng more opportunity to educate our kbbs friends.

Dear Cloudy

The problem is playing rugby as a professional player is a relatively  short career - so players must be well-paid or they will disappear to as place where they are well-paid.  That I believe is already happening and it will become a flood unless they are well-paid . 

That is one of the main reasons for need of massive amounts of money by the relative Boards - hence my comments above.   

Amateur rugby cost very little -  professional rugby a fortune.  The amateur game would never die in NZ (and SA).   It is SH professional rugby that is going to be severely damaged or even   destroyed if care is not taken and the present scenario retained  and improvements made to it. 

Cloudy 

Rugby players are not all that well=paid as other codes of sport.   Take for instance  the Indian Premier League (cricket).   For instance AB de Villiers make nearly $2 million for the 8 week tournament.  Add to that his annual salary in SA - circa S800 000,  That will mean he makes nearly three times what the highest aid rugby player (at this stage Carter) earns in a year.   There are others who earn more - but I use De Villiers as an example.     Ther is a lot of NZ cricket players playing there too.   - but they earn around $500 000 for the 8 week tournament,

Soccer players are even paid many times more, 

So there needs many times more money than is available at present.  

This is just capitalism at work with teams going where the money is, and it is what it is, but simply being one of the best rugby nations is not enough anymore.

Because capitalism is one sided...

SA bring nothing to European rugby. It will spread the wealth, bring travel time in a geographically rugby dense region, add dummy games.

SA rugby is bleeding, it is in terminal condition. It is not capitalism, it is charity, a lifeline thrown to SA rugby to try to save what can not be saved.

Ya you commie fool. Capitalism is one sided.  Work is rewarded.

No. Association requires mutual benefits. European rugby do not benefit from associating with SA rugby.

European rugby is the one that has a hand on selecting who gets in and who do not. So even in case of one sided, Europe is the one holding the gates, not SA. 

The association does not benefit European rugby, it happens through charity. It is an attempt to save SA rugby from their own shortcomings. That is why Europe let SA rugby in.

Work, sure, SA has been unable to train one single decent quota player in twenty years and one must believe in the work tale.

SA rugby failed to take the turn of professionalism (that is when rugby is turned into a job) and people must believe into that work stuff.

Rugby in SA is squandering of resources, there is no work in it. Partygoers who ruined a large geographical area like SA and cling to rugby.