So what are our Bok options

 I'm including those injured right now and players who I think should be in contention over the next year or so. Its a now and future list, giving us an indication of the depth we have at our disposal.

Fullbacks: Lambie, Frans Steyn, Taute, Kirchner, Joe, Ludik. Future - Ulrich Beyers, last years Baby Bok.

Wings: Habana, JP, Mvovo, JJ.Engelbrecht, W.le Roux, v/d Heever, Mapoe, Aplon, Jordaan, Basson. Future - Mjekevu and Sithole

Outside centres: Taute, JP, JJ.Engelbrecht, Sadie, Jordaan, Frans Steyn, de Jongh, Ebersohn, S.Watermeyer. Future - Pat Howard, JP du Plessis and Dries Swanepoel.

Inside centres: Frans Steyn, Jean, Whitehead, Frans Venter, Olivier. Future - Jan Serfontein

Flyhalves: Goosen, Jantjies, Lambie, Morne, Ebersohn, Grant. Future - Fouche

Scrumhalves: Hougaard, v/Zyl, Pienaar, Vermaak, Duvenhage. Future - Hoffmann and Schrauder

Looseheads: Beast, Coenie, Greyling, JC Kritzinger, Marcel v/d Merwe, Nkanyane, Kitshoff, C.Oosthuizen. Future - Kebble

Tightheads: Jannie, Mujati, W.Kruger, Malherbe, Frik Kirsten, Rossouw de Klerk, WP.Nel. Future - Kebble

Hookers: Bismark, A.Strauss, Chiliboy, Burden, D.Fourie, Callie Visagie, Maku. Future - Mbonambi

Locks: Flip, J.Kruger, Bekker, Etzebeth, Elstadt, Bresler, Hargreaves, Sykes, Mostert, Roodt. Future - Quinn Roux, JA Marais, P.Willemse, Steph du Toit, Ruan Botha, C.Oosthuizen, J.du Plessis, Bullbring

Looseforwards: Spies, Elstadt, Kolisi, Schalk, J.Strauss, D.Potgieter, J.Potgieter, Johnson, CJ Stander, M.Coetzee, Daniel, Kankan, Deysel, Alberts, P.v/d Walt, Brussouw, Koster, Carr, Arno Botha, Hattingh, Vermeulen, Stegman, Rhodes, Minnie, Whitely. Future - Liebenberg (current Baby Bok skipper)

SAFFEX - where did you find all those players - must have gone to th internet on those.   Ypou obviously left out some certainties and put in some really provincial level players in the lists.    Some of the players listed has not played in the position indicated for years - Francois Steyn being one.   Must have been five years since he last played at full back.

I wuill do a bit of analysing iro of positional play:-

15   Only three players that could move up - Lambie, Pieterse and Taute - the rest mediocre on S15 level

Wings :   With a bit of help we probably have three wings of international standard - Habana, Mvovo and

                    Aplon.  Pietersen is far too slow for play on wing and he shoyuld never make the team.

Centers :   I can only see about four players immediately  and we can develop some talemnt later on.   The

                       four are De Villiers and Steyn, plus Jordaan en Taute - maybe also Engelbrecht.

Flyhalfs  : Only Goosen and Lambie stands out.  The rest are mediocre on S15 level.

Scrumhalfs  :    Hougaard and Steyn - with Nothnagel as an outside choice.   The rest not even S15 level 

8    :    Only three really international potential - Vermeulen, Krankowski and Coetzee - the rest mediocre

Flanks  :   Lets get reasonable - there are up and coming players - but they are not really up to standard

                         at this stage.  The real candidates are limited to about four players - namely Bekker, Coetzee 

                         (if not at 8) Elstadt, Potgieter and maybe Deysel - the rest are indeed poor.

I am running out of time - so no more specifics.   I think that 70% of the palyers mentioned by you would NEVER play on international level since they barely function on S15 level.   

Sapster I have to agree that there is the depth to cause one to be optimistic about the future.  Of course a number of your selections will probably not make it at international level as Mike suggests.

However sapster, please stop all this nonsense re Liebenberg. He is clearly at least the third best and possibly the second best hooker in SA. Moonie daft wees asseblief ou sapster! 

You will also find Jean at 13 not 12 for the Boks. take it from Beeno sapster.

"Clever" Mike Bekker is a lock not a flank.

saf, I see you listed Fouche as a possible future flyhalf. Ithink you should rather go and watch Paarl Gim Rugby games. Kid with surname of Pollard there. Theron has pulled him into the Naby boks now that goosen is injured and the SA schools side has not even been picked. way better than Fouche at the Bulls. Rumour is the kid already has offers from 3 unions.

Mike, nothing to do with the internet at all, its about knowing your players. Mike I know the age and weight of every one of those players, lets just say rugby is a passion of mine!

My list was about the now and the future, read my opening dear chap!!

Who cares if Frans has not played 15 for years, point is he is an option there, just like I have him as an option at 12 and 13.

As for your take on the players, its complete nonsense, more because you probably dont even know who they are.

On the wing JJ Engelbrecht, Mvovo, Habana, JP and Jordaan are test players or standard now. Last years Baby Boks Sithole and Mjekevu are the future.

At centre we have this years class Baby Bok pair in Jan Srfontein and Pat Howard, Howard has already been invited to Meyers Bok training camp. Jan Serfontein and Dries Swanepoel both snapped up by the Bulls, have been regarded as the best centre combo Grey Bloem has ever had, they played outside Goosen at 10 at school. Frans Venter has played S15 rugby and was the Baby Boks star 12 last year.

Mike I could go on and on, its called insight into reality and paints a very positive picture about our future under a coach who knows what he is doing, something we have not had in years.

I'm not saying all these guys will or are test standard, but I can assure you most are.

Here is a little help for you, just to guide your ignorance in the right direction.......at fullback we have last years Baby Bok Ulrich Beyers now playing for the Bulls Vodacom Cup side. This kid was magic, so one for the future.

Ek, yeah I read about this kid, but have never seen him play. Big lad at 95kg's as well, so will be able to stand his ground at Baby Bok level.

I like the bits I have seen of Fouche, good vision and physical. No doubt he could be an option at centre and fullback

Beenkop, Liebenberg is a washed up never been - I have him down as about our number 8 hooker if we were really desperate