Whiteley or Vermuelen (assuming he was available). To me Whiteley helps our defence out wide better and when playing NZ that looks the bigger threat. Add a bit more grunt by playing Snyman
Against England play Vermuelen.
Beeno
As far as I know Vermeulen will not be available. He is still in Japan, He made the announcement that he wil only be available for the EOYT. I do not think any player should ecide when and when not to play for SA - and he seems to hope tat he does not need to play tests and would be an automatic selection based on reputation.
Another player is on the sideline and a potential call-up. Coetzee for the last two years played at 8 for Ulster - he can play at 6,7 or 8. I am hoping Erasmus call him up and release Louw. That would really strengthen our loosie pool
Coetzee hasn't played test rugby in along time. The last he played he was last struggling against the physical teams in 2014. If he has las improved, that would be good for our depth.
As for 8, I'm happy with Whiteley, but Duane is another prospect entirely. His physicality is simply too much. I'd have to have Duane over Whiteley. As I say though, I like Whiteley. I think he is very underrated. A more consistent performer.
Our loose trio is a mess.
I too would prefer Vermeulen at 8 ... but ... the man's in Japan on holiday, so one doesn't know if he'll last the first 30 minutes. Besides ... I don't think he wants anything to do with the All Blacks any way ... why else would he have tucked his tail and run?
Whiteley has shown a return to form and so I would rather stick with him. At least he has the right attitude toward playing for his country and besides that, he's still hungry, unlike Vermeulen. That goes a long way in my book.
Vermuelen is superb in the tight loose but Whiteley is better as a covering number eight. So it is a question of what you are up against. The wee abs threat are their backs. Hence against the wee abs maybe Whiteley. Even mo re so on a fast highveldt arena like Loftus.
Whiteley was outstanding last Saturday.
Why not?
Showing your wares off against a sub standard side is one thing ... a whole different kettle of fish against the top side. There you get exposed.
He's only just returned to test match rugby. An absence of many years. We saw his lackluster performance in the 3rd test against the Poms. It's rather concerning if you ask me.
I understand that the Bulls have bought his services for next seasons SR. That will toughen him up and bring him to acceptable fitness levels.
Yes ... I love Augustus. He is a power house and I hope he gets noticed.
Another potential blindsider is Wiese.
My back row would be Kriel, Augustus / Wiese and Vermeulen.
AO
So Marcell is soft - what a farce you are. One can you how you rate loosies when punting Louw until he failed as expected.
Coetzee had a series of injury problems starting middle 2015 and he consequently missed the WC. The injuries also hampered him in 2016 and 2017 and he played very little rugby, but he is ba ck now and would have more rugby ability as a loosie in his little finger than Louw has in his whole body.
But then you are so slanted iro players that anything you write must be taken with not a pinch of salt, but a bag full of the stuff.
Japanese rugby will improve his fitness as far as running is concerned. It's a faster league than Super rugby, with almost no kicking. That means a lot of running from ruck to ruck as a defender. Often wide apart.
Lügnerin, Louw is a proven entity at test level. Coetzee is not. He had a run in 2014, but could not deliver. He was part of the reason why the Boks were beaten at the breakdown and suffered when they needed strong carries. What has he done since that time? So how can you object to what I am saying?
I have admitted that Louw needs a big game to get back on track. Slanted would be denying his contributions. So much so that you embarrassed yourself when arguing against metres carried.
It's funny, you say I a prejudiced, biased, stupid and know kiting about rugby. Yet you have never been able to refute a single words I have written on any aspect of any game discussed. That's quite telling. Keep dreaming. At least stay a little calmer when you go off on those rants.
AO
Sure - Louw is a proven test failure - so you would continue to punt him lik ypou do with a long list of other failures. If SA play Namibia - he may get back onto track - but opthersie there is zero chance of it.
And Louw is at 33 suddenly going his form at 33 years of age = dream on.
By the way I n the past I did support Louw. However, the man as poor in all tests played this year and was worse than any of the other loosies. He is NOT a breakdown ball protect and recover anymore and he cannot steal balls anymore - one steal in all tests played is not good enough and all the defensiv e errors and poor tackle stats.
He can recover his form - LMAO
Snapster haven't seen Marcel play for a couple of years. He was always a hard player who grafted. How is he at 6? Wonder if Rassi e will call him up for YE tour.
Warren Whiteley without question and yes I would like to see Marcel Coetzee back as flank.
How quick is he compared to a Whiteley or some other SA forward playing in SA? He used to have reasonable turn of speed but that was when he was 107 kg or so.
Beeno
Dave probably saw Coetzee play NH club rugby since he left SA. But I must say I rather think Dave is nearer the mark. Coetzee has not played at 6 for years and his present position is 8.
My problem is that Whiteley has admirable pace and that is a definite asset in some games - but for the most part he is not physically strong enough. He is a player I respect and would like to have him used under some circumstances.
I would normally support Vermeulen - but not under present circumstances. He is now in Japan where player fitness is extremely questionable. They only play rugby matches every alternate weekend and the players are basically unfit compared to what is expected in SA. Vermeulen in June managed to play two successive matches producing wonderful rugby and then the steam ran out, I have a suspicion too that he may not make the WC next year,
Age is always a factor with an extremely serious impact on performance. Jean de Villiers made a classical remark on that score - he said that at 31 he had to train twice as hard as he did when he was 29. Is Vermeulen training twice as hard as he did when he was 29 - there is signs that he was not at Toulon and now in Japan it is even more unlikely.
I think Coetzee will be called up to the squad for the remainin two tests in the place of Louw.
WW at no 8 and Marcel Coetzee as flank...not a big fan of Kolsi but he has stepped up and looks like he's entrenched...a formidable loose trio. We've had set-ups like in the old days...Piet Greyling, Jan Ellis (sometimes Frik played flank when not locking) and Tommy Bedford at 8 ...it's how you put it together.
Mike we need a covering number eight when playing the wee abs. To me two loosies need to be real fast and able to get around the park. Whiteley and Kolisi are the two for now.
Against England their backs are not as much as a threat and they tend to have a powerful pack which if you can get the upper hand you can be assured of a win. Then its Vermuelen.
But Marcell must be a brute these days at 115 kg. Like to see him play .
The two Du Preez twins look the deal to me and don't buy into the over hyped butter fingers nonsense. Plenty of knock ons occur in Durban where the ball often is very slippery.
@ Beeno
Totally agree about the Dups. Dunno why Moz thinks they're slow.
BB
One cannot rely only on two players in a critical position as the possibility of elimination of one from selections leaving no alternative.
I myself have reason to doubt whether Vermeulen would going through to the WC based on good performance. He had obvious fitness problems in the third test after being brilliant in the first two tests.
Going to Japan would add to question marks about his fitness and that is a further problem - it has ben factual that returnees from Japan all show signs of fitness deficiency. The result is often longer term injuries of such players.
I would always pick Vermeulen and him not available Coetzee in NH tests and would also welcome more pacey players against the AB's - so an immediate question is rally only guess work.
