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Some points to ponder for blowhard Ozzie cricket fans

Started by Beeno129 REPLIES318 VIEWS· 08 Jan 2014, 21:23
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2014, 21:23
#1
08 Jan 2014, 21:23#1

Ex BD live

JUST six short months ago, Australia suffered as little self-confidence as they did series victories. Recently they completed a 5-0 whitewash over England, to regain the Ashes. With that, the Australian national ego has been reinflated overnight — hyperinflated, one might even say, given the type of comments emerging in the wake of their triumph.  (Exactly wso one has only to consider the chest beating Warner!)

They are due to tour South Africa in February and so it is worth looking a little closer at the Ashes series and to ask: how good a victory was it, really?

The natural point of comparison is Australia’s recent loss to England in the same competition. In August last year, they lost the Ashes 3-0, a rather emphatic defeat. That series also comprised five Test matches. By comparing Australia’s performance in each, home and away, it becomes possible to see where they improved and England regressed.

Let us start with their batting.

Australia in England, August 2013: In their 10 innings away from home, Australia scored 2,735 runs and lost 89 wickets for an average score of 273/9. In the first innings they managed 1,697 runs for the loss of 46 wickets and an average score of 339/9.

England, by comparison, scored a total of 2,856 runs and lost 85 wickets for an average score of 286/8 across their 10 innings. The England first-innings numbers were 1,559 runs for the loss of 50 wickets and an average score of 311/10.

So, remarkably, despite losing the Ashes 0-3, Australia actually averaged more than England in the first innings — 339/9 versus 311/10 — when away from home.

England in Australia, January 2014: In Australia’s 10 innings at home, they scored a total of 3,189 runs and lost 77 out of 100 possible wickets. So the average Australian innings was 319/8. Australia’s five first innings totalled 1,780 runs and they lost 49 out of 50 wickets for an average score of 356/10 (largely helped by one innings of 570/9 — remove that, and their first-innings average is only 302/10).

England, by comparison, scored just 2,158 runs and lost all 100 wickets (by my reckoning this is the only time this has happened in a five Test-match series). England’s average score was, thus, 216/10. They managed a paltry 969 runs in their first innings for the loss of all 50 wickets, to average a messily 199/10.

It becomes clear that Australia’s 5-0 home walloping was thus not built on a hugely improved batting performance. Their average score remains roughly the same (273/9 away versus 319/8 at home). In fact, Australia’s first average first-innings totals, which go a long way towards determining the result of any given match, are even more similar (339/9 versus 356/10).

Rather, the difference was the massive decline in the English batting performance. England’s overall average declined from 286/6 at home to 216/10 away and, in the first innings, their average declined even more dramatically, from 311/10 all the way down to 199/10 — an average difference that would have put them on the back foot in almost every game. And that was a position from which the team never recovered.

So, the first key point to take away from Australia’s victory is that their performance did not represent a fundamental shift in batting dominance. The same team who lost 3-0 and averaged 273/9 were able to win 5-0 with an average of 319/8.

The logical follow-on question (no pun intended) therefore, is whether England’s dire batting was the consequence of poor form on their part or brilliant bowling on Australia’s. The Australian cricket fraternity is certainly of one mind on the subject. They believe it was their bowling attack, spearheaded by a ferocious Mitchell Johnson and clinical Ryan Harris (they took 59 of the 100 English wickets to fall between them).

Australian captain Michael Clarke has certainly said as much of his attack. In his post-match interview, he said: "I told them before the Test that they were the best attack in the world and I think they’ve earned that mantle." His view was reiterated by fast-bowler Peter Siddle, who said: "When we’re bowling at our consistent best like we did throughout this series I think it shows (we are the best)." ( How a littlebit of success has gone to some Ozzies heads - talk about being BLOWHARDS!!!)

But as a unit, did they really perform better? Ryan Harris’s average remained roughly the same (19.58 away from home and 19.31 in Australia). Nathan Lyon and Siddle improved marginally (33.66 to 29.36 for Lyon and 31.58 to 24.12 for Siddle). Those are all excellent showings — Harris’s average in particular was outstanding — but between those three the improvement does not appear enough to explain the dramatic about-turn from 0-3 to 5-0.

No, the real difference was Mitchell Johnson, who did not play the away series but took 37 wickets at a staggering 13.97 at home. Surely he alone was the fundamental difference between these two series? His man-of-the-series award would certainly seem testament to that fact.

Thirty-seven wickets in a five Test-match series is a brilliant showing. It means Johnson alone was responsible for one of every three English wickets that fell.

But how do those wickets break down on closer inspection? Only 13 of the 37 were top five batsmen. Fifteen were batsmen 8, 9, 10 and 11.

Any bowler must, of course, aim to take the wicket of whoever they are bowling to, and the ability to wrap up a tail is a vital skill, essential to any attack. So one cannot hold any of that as a negative against Johnson. However, it is fair to say the bulk of his wickets came against the middle and lower order.

The English batting might well have been suffering a spectacular mental meltdown but, even if they had performed to the same standard it did in England, they are no South Africa.

South Africa recently lost Jacques Kallis but in Graeme Smith, Hashim Amla, AB de Villiers and Faf du Plessis they have four batsman who average 50 and above (no English batman averages more than 50). And, it will be Australia’s ability to dislodge them on which their success will hinge.

Johnson’s performance was outstanding, but he will have to do a little better against the South Africa top five if he is to make the same difference.

In much the same fashion, and whatever Australia think of their current attack, the difference between the South African attack of Vernon Philander (average 18), Dale Steyn (22) and Morne Morkel (29) compared with the English attach of Jimmy Anderson (30) and Stuart Broad (30) is night and day. And the Australian batting line-up seems generally no less vulnerable to the English than it did six months ago. (PLEASE NOTE OZZIE BLOWHARDS!)

It is a little harsh to say Australia’s turn-around was built around the performance of one man. Nevertheless, take away Johnson’s showing and the Australian averages in terms of runs scored and wickets taken do not differ that dramatically from what they were when Australia lost 3-0.

There were marginal improvements on all fronts but not enough to suggest, apart from Johnson, that this is a fundamentally different team from the one that got a hammering just six months ago.

Of course, with these kinds of victories comes confidence, that essential ingredient to all sporting success, and so the effect of Johnson on the team could be telling.

But all the hyperbole coming out of Australia at the moment suggests many have conflated the performance of one man with the performance of an entire team. The rest of the Australian players, however, have not significantly lifted their game.

EXCELL ENT SOBER ARTICLE WHICH SHOULD BE COMPULSORY READING FOR ALL BLOWHARD OZZIE CRICKET FANS


MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
08 Jan 2014, 21:33
#2
08 Jan 2014, 21:33#2
 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2014, 21:56
#3
08 Jan 2014, 21:56#3
 saSUe you fast asleep again - no wonder so much escapes you! 
RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
09 Jan 2014, 12:18
#4
09 Jan 2014, 12:18#4

 Yep thats right all to do with English collapse..... nothing to do with the new and improved Mitchy J..... hahaahahaa

 

Im sure the saffa bats and bowlers think its all in the aussies head too... just the way we like it...

 

Im telling you the Aussie cricketers are back ready to start another period of domination.... the depth in aussie cricket is now huge again and classy bowlers are now being omitted....

 

Anyway I predict closer series than Poms provided but be aware this is very much a dominant aussie team on the rise........

 

hahaahahahah love it!!!!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jan 2014, 12:30
#5
09 Jan 2014, 12:30#5

I am not going to pre-judge issues.   England has problems  in their team and their performances in Australia can at best be regarded as atrocious.    To say that because of the rout of England the Aussies have a chance against SA is a bit far-fetched.


It is likely that they would run into a brick wall here - but lets wait and see what happens.


By the way I like Warner.   When Root tried to play he fool with Amla he punched him - and that made my day.   He is a decent guy and a very good and fast opening batter.   

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 12:33
#6
09 Jan 2014, 12:33#6
The Oz side is bog ordinary........they have one class bat in Clarke and a good bat in Smith.......the rest are average.

They have one class bowler in Johnson.......Siddle and Harris are bog ordinary as is Lyon the spinner.

SA have 3 bats in the top 10 and their strike bowlers are number 1 & 2

Steyn and Philander are going the chew Rogers, Warner, Watson and Bailey up.

The SA side is going to show the Oz side up for the average side that it is.......its made up of a bunch of old farts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Jan 2014, 12:37
#7
09 Jan 2014, 12:37#7

 Ozzie bowlers are up for it, can't say the same for their bats. Our downside is the loss of JQ, kinda brings us back to the field. Another concern is Steyntjies rib injury, will he have recovered in time?

 

I'm tipping a close one.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 12:43
#8
09 Jan 2014, 12:43#8
Steyn will be good.............their major threat will be Johnson.......Siddle and Harris are nothing to worry about.

Kallis will be a big loss, but hopefully it opens the door for the very impressive de Kock
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jan 2014, 12:52
#9
09 Jan 2014, 12:52#9

Sounds good.

Maybe this test series will get me watching cricket again.

Nothing better than seeing an Ozzie chewed up and spat out.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Jan 2014, 13:09
#10
09 Jan 2014, 13:09#10

 Dave, you are overlooking the point about Steyns rib injury, I don't care what anyone say, he won't be fit enough if he's going to need 4 weeks to recover.

 

They are talking about Ryan McClean as JQ's replacement....puleeeeze!

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jan 2014, 13:20
#11
09 Jan 2014, 13:20#11


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1404 RE: Some points to ponder for blowhard Ozzie cricket fans
January 09, 2014, 11:09:20

 Dave, you are overlooking the point about Steyns rib injury, I don't care what anyone say, he won't be fit enough if he's going to need 4 weeks to recover.

 

They are talking about Ryan McClean as JQ's replacement....puleeeeze!


It is Ryan Mclaren and Boucher does not agree with you. Then again...... WTF does Boucher know after all?


McLaren Boucher’s choice to replace Kallis

Ryan McLaren should replace Jacques Kallis as allrounder in the South African test team, says Mark Boucher, who represented the Proteas in 147 tests and 295 one-day internationals (ODIs).

The legendary wicketkeeper-batsman, who was in the trenches in the SA team with his close friend and business partner Kallis for about fifteen years, said: For now, Ryan is the right call. Nobody has really put their hand up to take the position and at least Graeme (Smith, the SA captain) will know what he is going to get from Ryan.

“Ryan is extremely experienced, is a brave cricketer and has a sound technique.

“He also has the ability to dry up one end like Jacques. He will be able to fulfil the holding role like Jacques.

Ultimately, Jacques cannot be replaced. But I guess Ryan should get first role of the dice,” he added.

“Ryan has a solid cricket brain and he is the type of cricketer that, when given responsibility, will thrive,” Boucher said.

The 30-year old McLaren came of age in ODIs in 2013 and was selected for a Champions Trophy world team upon the conclusion of this ICC event in June. He was named player of the ODI-series against Pakistan in the United Arab Emirates.

He has played in 40 ODIs and one test. A vastly experienced player at first-class level, he has scored 3 860 runs and has captured 329 wickets in 103 matches.

Boucher also said he won’t change the SA test batting line-up much for the series against Australia.

He says although JP Duminy currently lacks a bit of form, he is a very classy cricketer and he will come through it.

Boucher backed Faf du Plessis to fulfil the number-4 batting role in the SA test team, where he can bat at his own pace and set up stall instead of speeding up the game when batting with the tail.

“I belie ve batting at number 4 will help his game. Faf is incredibly talented. My view is that he has not yet touched the heights that he can achieve,” added Boucher.

The experienced former SA wicketkeeper-batsman said he believed South Africa could achieve their twin goals of scoring 450 with the bat and take 20 Australian scalps per test in the series against Australia in February and March.

“Just remember that we have at least four players in the batting line-up who averages 50 in test cricket in Graeme (Smith), AB (de Villiers), Hashim (Amla) and Faf (du Plessis),” he added.






SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 13:44
#12
09 Jan 2014, 13:44#12
Seems Steyn has been playing with that injury for a while, has had the op so should be good to go in 4 weeks.

Mc Laren is bog ordinary, another Albie Morkel........average bowler and bat........if he replaces Kallis we are toast and it will mean the typical SA conservatism will rear its ugly head - leaving de Kock out.

A middle order of Faf, JP and Mc Laren is brittle..............JP should be our allrounder.......forget average to useless Ryan
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Jan 2014, 14:03
#13
09 Jan 2014, 14:03#13

 Right on Dave, we're almost on the same page, this McLaren is 30 years old....puleeeeeeeeeze

 

Still won't budge on my doubts about Steyn being prepped to go in 4 weeks time but I hope I'm wrong.....and you can kiss totsiens any hopes of QDK being selected.

 

Shits me bigtime as well. ...I mean his selection should be a mere formality.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 14:25
#14
09 Jan 2014, 14:25#14
We can only hope on Steyn, but there is also an injury cloud over AB who has just had an op on his hand.
Yeah Mc Laren turns 31 soon, has a first class average of 30 and a bowling average of 25........hardly test material, evidenced by the fact that he has been around for ages and mostly failed.
If we select him and bat Faf at 4.......it will be the start of the SA slip
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jan 2014, 14:32
#15
09 Jan 2014, 14:32#15
As  I said: "WTF does Mark Boucher know...?"
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Jan 2014, 14:39
#16
09 Jan 2014, 14:39#16

 Dave

 

I like the side you selected in that other post....boy it's Hot!

 

JP most decidedly would be my allrounder as well.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 14:51
#17
09 Jan 2014, 14:51#17
Yeah the side should be:

1. Smith 2. Elgar 3. Amla 4. AB 5. de Kock 6. JP 7. Miller 8. Philander 9. Steyn 10. Morkel 11. de Lange

Vlag, if Boucher reckons that Mc Laren is the answer then he knows fuck all.........I dont care if Don Bradman said Mc Laren was the answer, that would not make Mc Laren a good allrounder.......he is average to poor and thats a FACT


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jan 2014, 15:16
#18
09 Jan 2014, 15:16#18
 Ahhhh the ever famous FACT again.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Jan 2014, 15:19
#19
09 Jan 2014, 15:19#19
 Looooooove it Dave....can't believe I'm agreeing with you...it must be a first!
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jan 2014, 15:42
#20
09 Jan 2014, 15:42#20
 JP Duminy is nowhere near to being an all-rounder. His batting is too crap and his bowling is not much better either. He has only scored two 100's over his entire test career of just over five years, and the first one was more than five years ago. He has a "massive" sum-total of five 50's. His last 50 in SA was in Dec 2009, more than four years  ago. He is ranked at no 60 on the ICC batting rankings, at no 71 on the bowling rankings and 31st on the all-rounder rankings. Vernon Philander, who can hardly be called an all-rounder, is ranked at no 3, FFS. Where does Duminy fall out? even Dale Steyn, at no 8, is ranked way above Duminy. Truth is that JK, was probably the last true test all-rounder in the world....... for the time being, in any case. That is where Mark Boucehr is 110% correct when he says: Ultimately, Jacques cannot be replaced." But then again, as was stated as a FACT, he knows fuck-all.

The only FACT is that you have not read what Bouch has said, even though I deliberately tried everything possible to highlight it by doing it in bold, I talics and underlining it.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 16:31
#21
09 Jan 2014, 16:31#21
Vlag you are speaking shit.......while JP's batting has dipped of late in the test arena, its been good in the ODI's. He is our best spinner, best of a poor bunch.......we dont have a true allrounder so JP is by far our best bet.

To quote Steve Waugh.........he said JP was our best spinner. 

JP is twice the bat Mc Laren is and lets face it JP will take as many wickets or hold up an end just as effectively as the very average Mc Laren will.

Vlag you just need to bloody wake up.......let me guess you think Mc Laren is a better bat and bowler than JP...............

See, I'd rather have a specialist seamer like de Lange in my side and have JP playing as our spinner given there is no way in hell Petersen or Tahir are better spinners than JP.........that way you also get to play de Kock in the middle order.

Beats the crap out of Mc Laren being a pretender...........play JP as your 5th bowler and by doing so you get the option of de Kock in your side.

I'd prefer to have de Kock in my side than the useless Mc Laren......if you cant see that then your cricket take is about on a par with your rugby!

Yep Denny........given the options we have, its not difficult to come up with that obvious side of mine. Faf is the only player who presents a curve ball.............he is technically poor, but produces the odd innings of substance that saves his bacon. I can live with Faf ahead of Miller, but definitely not batting at 4.......AB has to take on that responsibility for goodness sake, he is the best batsmen in the game. Bat him at 4 and give the gloves to young de Kock.......its simple  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jan 2014, 17:14
#22
09 Jan 2014, 17:14#22
 Don't twist around what I have said. I have not said that McLaren is better than this, that and the other. Let me repeat what Boucher has said, and with that I agree:

For now, Ryan is the right call. Nobody has really put their hand up to take the position and at least Graeme (Smith, the SA captain) will know what he is going to get from Ryan.


JP Duminy's batting has not dipped. It never really came off the ground. This is his batting graph for test matches. You can study the graph and the analysis HERE



You will notice that he has had the one 100 that he got against Aus back in Dec 2008. That was when everybody thought that he was God's gift to mankind because he helped win that match. The secret is that he had Dale Steyn on the other side, who also had an almost once in a lifetime performance with his contribution of 76 in their partnership of 180 runs. That was what saved that match. The partnership. Not JP's 166 alone. We would have lost that match, had Dale not put in that performance, because the next man in was Ntini.


His next 100 came four years later, almost to the day. In between that he had tqo 50's and after that the second 100 he, once again had two 50's. Apart from that, there was nothing to write home  about. I am by no means saying that he is a useless cricket player. He just is not the demi-god that many would like him to be. He will always be an option as a relief bowler but he cannot play the role that Jaques  Kallis played............. ever. And there is nobody else either. Not even on the horizon. We are entering a transitional phase without Kallis and we have to adjust. We effectively had a 12 man team every time we set foot on a cricket pitch with Kallis in the side. Kallis was a genuine specialist bowler and he was a genuine specialist batsman. Duminy is an OK batsman who can bowl a bit of spin.


You also cannot compare Peterson/Tahir with Duminy because they are average/poor bowlers but Peterson can bat while Tahir does not know which way to hold a bat. You cannot have Duminy as your front-line spin bowler because of the spread of his wicket taking. He bowls at the middle order batsmen and has most of his success there, while Peterson's wicket taking is spread more equally. Duminy battles bowling at the tail as well.




SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 18:35
#23
09 Jan 2014, 18:35#23
Vlag I know you are a stupid Dutchie but if you bang on about what Boucher said then there can only be one reason for that......you either agree with him or you are just plain bloody stupid in making the assertion in the first place.

I dont give a toss what JP's average is or how many 100's he has scored.......there is no disputing he is a quality bat and certainly twice the bat Mc Laren is. If we are playing him as an allrounder then his recent form with the bat in the test arena can be set aside to some extent........for we would be batting him at 6 or 7.........on form he is a worthy 5, but at the moment he is not hitting his straps as a test bat.

The argument here is whether Mc Laren should be in the test side......the simple answer is no, because he is simply not test standard. JP is already in the side.......and its simply a case of the selectors waking up to the fact that JP is as good a spinner as Petersen and Tahir are and therefore the obvious thing to do is to play him as our spinner, thereby opening the possibility of playing de Lange ahead of Petersen and selecting de Kock to replace Kallis........do you get it?

My side that includes JP, de Lange and de Kock.......is better than a side that includes JP, Robin Petersen and Mc Laren.......get it?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jan 2014, 19:11
#24
09 Jan 2014, 19:11#24
You have absolutely fuck all to back this up. "I dont give a toss what JP's average is or how many 100's he has scored.......there is no disputing he is a quality bat.....". Fokol.I have given you the facts why I happen to agree with what Boucher said. You have nothing but your own useless stupid fucking opinion. How can you even begin to want to set aside the bloke's recent form. It is no use saying anything further. You have no clue what you are talking about. Duminy a test all-rounder. What a fucking joke?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 19:22
#25
09 Jan 2014, 19:22#25
Um because I would be playing him as an allrounder batting at 6 or 7 you thick prick..........so with that in mind, his average of 33 in tests and 48 in first class cricket works for me - added to the fact that we know he is a class bat who will find form.

Your graphs and crap prove sweet stuff all when it comes to including useless Mc Laren...........what is pertinent is my take on what the side should be the same side Denny agrees with and the fact that Kepler reckons JP can be our spinner and Steve Waugh reckons JP is our best spinner.

None of your pathetic pie charts etc will convince anyone that Petersen and Mc Laren are better bets than de Lange and de Kock.......get it you stupid Dutchman.......what the fuck do you know about cricket anyway? The only thing you have ever thrown is stones into a dam for goodness sake.

Take your cricket ignorance elsewhere........bloody hell imagine being stupid enough to want Mc Laren to replace Kallis........that is on par with Morne replacing Carter in a world side
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jan 2014, 19:27
#26
09 Jan 2014, 19:27#26
 You do not appear to know much either you stupid Soutpiel. I am surprised that you even know what a pie chart is? Who did you get to tell you? Now go find  someone who can explain it to you as well, and one day when you understand, you can come back  and  we can discuss it again. Cheers.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jan 2014, 19:30
#27
09 Jan 2014, 19:30#27
One certainty is that I know a hell of a lot more about cricket and rugby than you do.........Ryan Mc Laren confirms that........go back to your laarger.

There is nothing to discuss, you are too thick........my guess is you have never played the game
RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
10 Jan 2014, 07:00
#28
10 Jan 2014, 07:00#28

 I do agree that Siddle has always appeared average BUT he is line and length and seems to just always be there amongst the wickets....

 

Mitch is undisputedly best fast bowler in the world atm and hopefully his form can be maintained.

 

The top order has been a bit shaky but Watson and Warner are due to find some good form and Clarke is another world leader atm.

 

The funny thing is that IMO Australia have at least 3x better fast bowlers - in Patterson, Cummins and Starc  so these boys are ready to step up and replace Siddle and Harris - bearing in mind both Harris and Siddle (~149) were bowling at times up around high 140s with MJ around 155...  

 

Aussie cricket is now overflowing with depth the only challenge being you can only pick 11 at one time.... The batting stocks in Aussie domestic cricket are also very healthy...

 

BRING IT - this will be test cricket at its best....!

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jan 2014, 10:33
#29
10 Jan 2014, 10:33#29
Siddle is a better bowler than Mitchell. He is consistent and hardly ever takes a dip in form. Mitch blows hot and cold. Can be brilliant in one series and then useless in the next few.

The England team was very good a season or two ago, but they were useless in this Ashes series. Aus, and the rest of us for that matter, has learned nothing about the current standard of the Aus test side from this series. Aus, and Mitchell Johnson, has nothing to crow abut yet.
AO
Admit OneClub Pro389 posts
10 Jan 2014, 13:03
#30
10 Jan 2014, 13:03#30
 I agree. He had a real good run there for a while, but then it got weird
— END OF THREAD —

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