Some remarkable reactions to the Sharks win

Old RooiAAS true to form has a snide go at all the other SA teams. Mike tells us Jordaan, the one Sharks player to have a disaster, was better than Robby Fruean who ran over him. And all our NZ friends seem unable to just admit the Saders were beaten.

The facts were simple the Sharks were highly motivated in this game. They refused to get discouraged when the Saders, largely as a result of the Fruean/Jordaan mismatch, were dominant through the first half.

In the second half the Sharks threw massive energy at the contest and wrested control away from the Saders who struggled through the second half. The fact that the Sharks never scored a try was  largely bad luck....they had the territory and possession to score several.

In the end it came down to kicking and Bleyendaal's pop gun boot just couldn't match the peerless kicking of Pat Lambie. No need to bleat about tries, refs or any other SA teams. Congratulate the Sharks and be done with it....that's the sporting way.

Nah, Mozart, Crusaders lost, Sharks won, done and dusted. On to next game.

 Exactly, great contest, two fine teams.....looking forward to a repeat in the playoffs.

Mozart

As per normal you  specialize in taking crap when it fits you amd I am going to give you the following stats on Fruean and Jordaan from ESPB scrum followe by the stats on the Fruean and De Jongh mismatch:-

Now in your true fashion you normally used lets analyze the stats and then decide on the so-called mismatch issue that you come up with:-

Fruean

Lets look at the number of carries and the average gain first  - ball carries 14 - distnance gained 46 meters = 3, 38 average meters per carry.   He made 1 clean line break where Jordaan was not involved in beating 2 defenders - made 1 tackle and missed one tackle.   Also made a late tackle on Jordaan giving away a penalty - which was converted by Lambie.

Jordaan

Lets look at the number of carries and the average gain first - ball carries 9 - distance gained 38 meters = 4,26 average meters per carry.  Jordaan made 8 tackles and missed 1 tackle.   Also in one case beating defender - jordaan went forward in the tackle and in an effort to recover the ball - the Crusaders was penalized and another Lambie conversion added 3 points to the Sharks score.

Foxsport analysis

The detailed stats on Fruean and De Jongh is not available - since I could not find members stupid enough to select either of the two into their teams.   However the final points allocation is as follows:-

*    Crusaders -  Sharks game       =     Fruean     =      17 points

                                                             Jordaan   =       22 points

 *   Crusaders - Stormers Game   =     Fruean     =       19 points

                                                            De Jongh  =         4 points 

Other Incident

As per normal Mozart base his whole argument on the one case where Fruean beat Jordaan in 1 tackle.   He also conveniently forgot that Jordaan was the player that caught Marshall in possession and the result was a carry over and the resultant scrum five meters out.   Also ultimately resulted in a penalty converted by Lambie.

Now in terms of the normal Mozart interpretations there ws a mismatch in this case.   Yes - if any reasonable person analysed the above info - there was one.  Jordaan was the better of the two centers by some distance and he played a more active and prominent part in the match than did Fruean.

The try scored by the Crusaders was not because Jordaan missed his tackle.   The crucial missed tackle was by Ndungane - not Jordaan.

Now Mozart do your normal and misrepresent facts and ignore the given stats becauase it does not match your interpretation of the game or wwhat youwish it to be.  We all know you use stats selectively when it fits you.   Or better still watch the game again and try and find excuses for your unfounded statement.  I am looking forward to your response in the relevant regard.

Mozart

The most remarkable reaction was yours.  Read the above and find out how you managed to make an utter fool of yourself.

 Moz one could see in the last quater the wee crusties were on the ropes against rthe Stormers even with their second string pack. The game took so much out of the crusties they ran out of gas. 

But please lets keep some perspective the crusties are after all over hyped.

Ou maaikie  please regain your sense of humour you are sounding very much on edge. Calling an old friend like Moz a fool is really uncalled for. 

Beeno

Ok - I am apologizing to Mozart.  He is a gentleman and I should not have called him any undeserving names.  However, he had me hopping mad about his normal players he dislikes - one Jordaan in particular.   However, Mozart was definitely wrong in this case - but I nontheless apologize  unreservedly.  

Beeno, Crusaders, 7 times Super champs, over hyped?? Now your credibility is starting to slip.

Mike..... the Foxsport rating makes no sense to me. Personally I never saw Jordaan beat Fruean, but if you say he did I accept that. But then I don't know if Fruean is a good defender, nor do I much care....he plays for NZ if he makes the team. But just for your reference, the person he late tackled was Lambie not Jordaan

What is at issue is Jordaan's defence, if he is a Bok candidate. So what we saw yesterday was this:

One time he went high and Fruean busted right past him through the outside gap, leaving Jordaan flat on his back. It was a dangerous breach and could easily have resulted in a try.

The other time Jordaan did the  small man trick of shepherding Fruean.....as a consequence Fruean made a lot of ground. Paulse used to do this, but before the pass cutting the opponent off from the ball. As it was Fruean accelerated the movement, broke through Jordaan's tackle and off loaded comfortably while Jordaan was clinging to his shirt tails. Try Crusaders!

The "one missed tackle" stat doesn't capture the mismatch that occured. But you can forget about Jordaan being selected for the Boks....Meyer will have noted this. I'd have a lot more confidence that Ebersohn or Cook, both smaller chappies, would have defended their channels. Just as de Jongh did last week.

And while I appreciate Hasbeen's support, no need to apologize Oom Mike.....call me what you wish. RooiAAS has insulted a whole population group for years in addressing me. It honestly doesn't take.

Yea, nah fair play, its a good team that can be down at half time and grind out a narrow win like that without scoring a try and forcing the saders into penalties. thought that last scum penalty should have perhaps gone the other way but ho hum, Lambie was outstanding the lads got a good head on em and is rising slowly which is always the best way imo. until now i think spencer might have been putting conflicting ideas in his head, maybe wiser to let the guy find his natural game.

Beano...(shakes head)...Your an idiot!

Mozart

I do not say that Jordaan should be candidate for selection - but your false statements about him needed correction.   First of all there was no missed tackle on Fruean by Jordaan when the try was scord.  He was tackled - but could off-load the ball   Fruean did land wwith his knees on the ground - that means a tackle was made.

The second point is you had the wrong incident about the Lambi involvement.  He passed the ball to Jordaan and Jordaan was tackled after he disposed of the ball.   Look again - you will see that clearly on TV.

Thirdly  - now suiddenly you do not believe the stats as you did not see it as the stats reflected.  I know you select stats to prove your point at times when it fits your argument.  When you support a player - stats is used extensively by you.  When you dislike a player stats does not count at all.   That means that you often enough is barking up the wrong tree completely.

I accept that you have made a mistake in your original wild statement - because the exampe you quioted above was in fact also not a missed tackle.   Be it as it may - in this case I believe the stats rather than your eprsonal dislike of a player as th correct version.    However, please just answer me one uestion - do you think the ESPN and Foxsport stats are wrong?

Please - if stats are ignored in some cases and used in others - it really discredits your arguments based on stats.   It is therefore better ignored and should not be used or altrnatively used in all cases.  Selective usage is not a sound basis for arguments.

By the way Sasue elsewhere said he was just trying to get a reaction from me about his Jodaan comments and posted it as a joke and that he was not seriously making a statement on that issue as being serious.  Your immediate reaction was comical to say the least - falling for a trick like that really is laughable.

Ok here's a stat for you,  du Toit missed 4 of his 9 attempted tackles.....and gained 19 metres in 11 carries, without an offload. But I still think he had a good game. Stats are helpful, but the quality of the various incidents have to be assessed. Simply put, Jordaan's defence was a major liability.