South Africa a fading force in world rugby?

Has South Africa lost it's mojo and how long before Kenya overtakes South Africa in the 15 a side game as they are doing in the 7 aside game?

Actually, I was putting together a depth chart and considering our prospects compared to that of New Zealand. I would feel very uncomfortable were I an All Black! The performances over the last three years have not been very good and without significant leeway under the rejigged ELVs they would struggle. Do they have depth at lock? Lossie? Half back? How about the back three? New Zealand have many skilled backs but too many generic players that do not define themselves well in specific positions. Centre is much the same. In terms of leadership they are very thin and their deteriorating set pieces put further into question their power. With the addition of Argentina NZ and AUS will both struggle to drag rugby away from it's dynamism and will have their weaknesses put under close scrutiny. Argentina and South Africa will both get better from this year onwards; New Zealand and Australia however won't.

...And so the mind games begin!

Gotta agree with Aristokrat...

Id feel quite concerned as a Kiwi.

Who do you fellas have coming through?

I mean if Nonu and Smith were to fall ill, who could step in?

SBW is totally overrated and isnt effective at international level in the midfield.

.... who would fill in Danny Boys boots when he retires? Slade? Bwahahahahaha!!!

Ok, the loosies look awesome. No issues there.

At 9??? Weepu? Come on! I think he'd be more suited to hooker.

Outside backs look decent (some nice talent in the wings)

Hooker? Besides Whore and Keven, who else ya got?

So.... before going on about the Bokke, look at our next generation before making comments like that.

Respect to the AB's and Bokke and may we forever rule the roost over the Poms and Wallabies.

The only point worthy of consideration perhaps is the seven aside question. Are Kenya going to overtake us?

From our side we have to find a solution to bent oz/nz refs. That done the furure belongs to the Boks.  I do hope McCaw plods on.  No based on WC form the abs are there for the taking.

 Yeah, the Boks look in real bad shape with a merit coach on board !!!!!!!!! Not to mention the experience he can draw on in Aplon, Habana, JP, Fourie, Jean, Frans Steyn, Olivier, Morne, James, Pienaar, du Preez, Steenkamp, Beast, Bismark, Jannie, Bakkies, Bekker, Schalk, Smith, Brussouw, Spies, Alberts and Kankowski.

Best news of all is that he can draw on the exciting young talents of:

Fullbacks: Lambie, Ludik, Beyers

Wings: JJ.Engelbrecht, Sithole, Jordaan, v/d Heever, Mjekevu, Mvovo, Poolman, Snyman

Centres: Taute, F.Venter, Murray, de Jongh, D.Swanepoel, J.Serfontein, T.Fisher, Small-Smith, JP, du Plessis, Lindeque, Watermeyer, Dippenaar

Flyhalves: Goosen, Jantjies, Ebershohn, Fouche, v/Aswegen

Scrumhalves: Hoffman, Vermaak, Duvenhage, v/Zyl, Kockott, Groom, Schreuder

Props: Coenie, M.v/d Merwe, Kirchoff, Malherbe, F.Kirsten, R.de Klerk, Mujati, W.Kruger, Greyling, Kritzinger

Hookers: Burden, A.Strauss, D.Fourie, Chiliboy, Mbonami

Locks: Flip, Mostert, Hargreaves, Estebeth, Elstadt, JA.Marais, J.du Plessis, Bullbring, Roodt, J.Kruger, Bresler

Loosies: A.Botha, Vermeulen, CJ.Stander, Louw, Daniel, J.Strauss, Stegman, Potgieter, v/d Walt, Kolisi, M.Coetzee, Deysel, Wheatley, Koster, Carr, Labascagne

Fisherman Bryce Lawrence just caught himself four nice snoeke. Mr Lawrence, if you don't know what a snoek is................... Google.

Sapp most of those guys you listed would be absolutely lost in the TN. Take your props....guys like Werner Kruger have already been abused in the S15.  And among the locks....Flip is a huge disappointment so far. Mostert faded after one good test......the rest are unproven.

You can throw out our win against NZ B team  in this year's TN.The fact is the last TN test of substance we actually won was in August of 2010....a home win against Oz, which they reversed the week after that. We used to be automatic against Oz at home.....that's clearly changed.

The fact is we hope that we are a coach away from regaining our mojo. But where are the young dominant tight forwards of yesteryear....certainly not on Dave's list.

 Moz your take on Flip is complete nonsense as is your take on Mostert. Both have been good at test level and better than any back-ups NZ have, hell their first choice lock is Thorne - the most overrated lock about.

As for Kruger again you never look at players in perspective. Kruger was solid for the Bulls and then played in a pathetic sad excuse of a Bok side selected by PdV.....if Kruger had failed in the company of Beast, Bismark, Bakkies, Victor, Schalk, Brussouw and Spies then fair enough - but the fact is he never played in the company of these players. The only time Kruger struggled was in the test arena in poor company, he never failed at S15 level.

Well Moz as for the dominant tightfive.......look no further than Etsebeth as a new dominant lock and Marcel v/d Merwe as a bright loosehead prop of the future, not to mention tighthead Rossouw de Klerk and Malherbe.....all youngsters we can invest in. Thing is Moz you dont know anything about these young players so not really in a position to comment are you. Fact is we do have some good youngsters about and a coach who should be able to direct them. Hell for a change there even appear to be a band of centres coming through - all very young, but at least they are coming through

I am not saying all these players will shine at S15 level, what I am pointing out is that we have depth and I have faith in them, you should do the same

New Zealand B's performance against us was their very best attacking display since 2006. It was very much a worthy victory and highlighted just how much ground Nienaber achieved in a very short space of time. The victory over Australia in 2010 was a lottery and arguably one of the two worst TNs tests in the competitions history. Never before have I seen such sloppy and woeful play in all my life, and by both sides! The test the following week was equally poor. We were tactically very poor and got drawn into playing to Australia's strengths. The win over New Zealand was against a very clinical side that had a lot of purpose and energy. Had we been anything like 2008, 2010 or even some of 2009... we would have actually been beaten very badly that day!

Most of these youngsters haven't seen a real pressure match....if the past holds true, 90% of them will fade away when they do. So I'm not bothered to spot all this talent, let the inevitable sifting process deliver the real prospects in the S15.

As for Werner and Flip.....Werner is no scrummager. And Flip was dropped in favour of Rossouw for the key S15 games in 2011. Presumably that Bools view also reflects our new coach's view.

We can assume our 2 in 10 TN performance of the last two years was all the coach. Maybe. But I'll be happier when we win a few of these games. Until that time....Bryce's theory is neither proven nor disproven.

 Flip got injured Moz and had not been back long when he was playing at the end of the S15. Flip is the best young long about, closest player we have to Bakkies by some distance. Name a better enforcer right now?

Which tighthead is a dominating tighthead......you should have seen your mate BJ being stuffed to powder a few weeks ago by the Saints scrum. Werner Kruger is no world beater, but solid he is