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FORUM / RUGBY /  South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR

South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR

Started by Just_win74 REPLIES1,115 VIEWS· 02 Jul 2014, 23:20
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
02 Jul 2014, 23:20
#1
02 Jul 2014, 23:20#1

Winter is coming, and the nights are dark and filled with terror. That is how I normally feel at the start of each year’s Rugby Championship in the words of Lord Stark of Game of Thrones.

The dark terror being the All Blacks and the winter the Wallabies.

For this article I will mainly focus on the men in black and whether or not the Springboks can cause an upset.

Yes, the Boks can beat them provided Heyneke Meyer does not play Morne Steyn, and to a certain extent Francois Pienaar.

Morne, from first receiver, cannot attack the advantage line with speed and guile, as was witnessed last Saturday when Handre Pollard created a try from a line out.

Immediately after the try was scored I asked myself if we would have scored if it was Morne instead of Pollard. The answer is a resounding no. Morne is too slow and stands too deep for an international first-five.

When was the last time Morne executed a diving tackle to stop the ball carrier flat in his tracks, or performed a try-saving tackle? Steyn was a good servant and even won us the Lion’s tour, but surely by now Meyer must realise Morne will never win a game against the All Blacks in a Springboks jumper, unless it’s behind a Sony Playstation.

The All Blacks are the only team that can stand on their feet after 80 minutes of gruesome play. Other teams (Springboks included) can only match them for 60 minutes, then they shift into a seventh or even eighth gear with speeds unmatched.

For the Boks to beat them changes have to be made at nine and 10 at least.

At this point any 10 will do if one looks at the limited package Morne has to offer. It’s almost too late to blood in a suitable nine before the World Cup. Cobus Reinach reminds me a lot of the Joost van der Westhuizen of old. Sure he must still develop but he has heaps of talent and by now should have been Jacque Fourie’s understudy. Why oh why did Meyer waist time with Nick Groom at last year’s end of year Tests?

The older the breeding stock you include in a team the more young stock you need to make up for the lack of sprinting metres sacrificed. It’s all about maths.

I’m sure the All Blacks, without looking at stats, cumulatively runs the most metres and are more fit. Hell, even their minds are more fit, their skill level of catching a ball in high pressure situations where other teams cannot hang onto it attest to it.

The Du Plessis brother, Bismarck and Jannie, are carrying on with their throwing-toys-out-of-cots-strategy from super level to international and it’s affecting their game.

Jannie cannot shut up when reprimanded. Take a leaf out of Duane Vermeulen’s book. When the ref penalised Vermeulen for an infringement, he looked at the ref with well-oiled remorseful eyes of an undertaker to the bereaved family and quietly jogged back into position.

I have the feeling that if it was up to Meyer and the game against the Scots didn’t fall outside the scope of the international window, he would have chosen the overseas players and not given the young guns a chance. Meyer only makes bold changes when forced by injuries and non-availability.


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
02 Jul 2014, 23:24
#2
02 Jul 2014, 23:24#2
 Well this article will put the cat amongst the pigeons, lol
PS: the author meant  Ruan Pienaar
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
03 Jul 2014, 00:00
#3
03 Jul 2014, 00:00#3
"by now Meyer must realise Morne will never win a game against the All Blacks in a Springboks jumper, unless it’s behin d a Sony Playstation."
A valid point indeed.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Jul 2014, 01:18
#4
03 Jul 2014, 01:18#4
This is really going to the core of the matter - this is why so many people are really saying Morne should not be anywhere near the Springbok team.
Then we have members on the site that is so rugby illeterate that they say Morne is essential.   I sometimes wonder what he has got that makes him a glyhalf of international quality - Stade Francais found that out quickly - but Meyer does not see it that way.


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Jul 2014, 01:37
#5
03 Jul 2014, 01:37#5
 @ Ou Maaikie. Fok, maar jy is stupid. Ek is nie eers lus om hierdie in Engels te doen nie. Die ou wat hierdie klomp kak skryf is ook  maar net nog 'n blogger, net soos jy, wat onder 'n skuilnaam skryf en dink hy het al die wysheid in pag. Hy is net so onnosel soos jy.

Om vir jou te wys hoe onnosel die  moer is...... hy skryf:

"Morne, from first receiver, cannot attack the advantage line with speed and guile, as was witnessed last Saturday when Handre Pollard created a try from a line out.

Immediately after the try was scored I asked myself if we would have scored if it was Morne instead of Pollard. The answer is a resounding no. Morne is too slow and stands too deep for an international first-five."

Hy is net so  dof soos een doos (ek dink nogal dit was jyself) wat onlangs geskryf het Morne Steyn sou nie die drie kon druk wat Goosen onlangs gedruk het nie. Kyk gerus na hierdie stukkie video. Kyk so van 23 sek af. Moet ook  nie eens verwag dat ek gaan antwoord op die klomp kak wat jy nou weer gaan kwytraak nie.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Jul 2014, 02:06
#6
03 Jul 2014, 02:06#6
 Dowwer than Dof Doos
If you are too stupid to see what is wriong with morne Steyn at flyhalf - then it obviously is not worth discussing the issue with you.  But then as I said earlier the Stade Francais coach saw what Morne has to offer and found it seriously deficient.
J ust one thing - why are you so addicted to Morne Steyn - we all know he is not up to standard - but you are one of three people on this site who says he is tops.  He is not.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jul 2014, 02:15
#7
03 Jul 2014, 02:15#7

Morne Steyn is a top class flyhalf.....there is no proof we have anybody better. I think Francois Steyn could be a good option. Pollard is probably the future, but any rugby career is beset with form loss and injury....he will ultimately have to deal with those challenges and time will tell how that works out.

 

But you can forget your choices OOM....Lambie is truly bog ordinary and Goosen is truly made of glass. And lets not forget Goosen is a head case and he can't tackle.We can also forget Potgieter.... Hasbeen's choice and Jantjies....Dave's choice. None of these guys have accomplished enough to tie Morne's boots.

 

 

And you know what we can also forget....the Stade Francais coach. His pick bombed at test level, so who is to say he knows what he is doing...huh?

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
03 Jul 2014, 02:16
#8
03 Jul 2014, 02:16#8
Morne does show some good things in that Tribute video. However usually only behind a completely dominant pack.
Standing deep is good for drop goals, but not for attacking from 1st phase and 2nd phase. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jul 2014, 02:44
#9
03 Jul 2014, 02:44#9

Well Morne started in all but 2 of our last 8 tests since returning from NZ. In that period we scored 31 tries in 8 tests....against NZ, Wales, Oz, France and Scotland. Not shabby to average 4 tries a game.

 

 

If you look at Ellis Park.....long accurate passes by Morne were a factor in  two of those tries....the backline was also moving at speed.  I say again.....for a flyhalf passing effectiveness is far more crucial than running with the ball.

 

 

But I take your point SB....having that dimension keeps the loosies honest, and takes some pressure off 12. Pollard can do that, but until his kicking gets to Morne standards, it comes at a cost.

 

There isn't a player on the planet who ticks all the boxes for his position. Steyn is a world class kicker and a  points machine....there are better runners....but how does it all balance out on the score board?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Jul 2014, 03:22
#10
03 Jul 2014, 03:22#10
 Mozart
Morne did not play in any Scottih tests during the period you mentioned - so wrong in the first sentence.  .  Morne was never effective ad a flyhalf - you must be blind not to recognize it.
He destrroys the backline - most of those tries that you speak about was when Morne was not involved at all - it was mostly created by Willie le Roux.   
Morne is a world class kicker - but he also buggers up crucial kicks - You spoke aboput the Ellis Park test where he missed two crucial conversion kicks - but that dioes not count according to you.   Just think back to the Dunedin test of 2012 as well.   
His so-called strategic kicks were once described as bullshit by the commentators and that is what it was and his tendency to kick balls directly into touch and misses finding touch with penalty kicks is notorious.
The day Morne Steyn shows that he can read the game and implemnet creative strategic play - that day the sky would be green.  He is clueless - just think back to the Ellis Park test again and Messam/s second try.
Just think back to the second test against the Welsh where Morne buggered up constantly - and you get a real picture of the flyhalf you so laud.  In any event all of Pollard, Goosen and Lambie are better than Morne in reading games and make creative plays as a result.
What is a running flyhalf in your book?  Is it one who gets the ball while on the move already - as against a flyhalf like Morne standing dead still until he receives the ball from the scrummie?
How does it balance out on the scorecard?  We have not won a test against New Zealand since 2010 - thyat really is fine balancing according to you.       
How come the Stade Francais coach and management makes Morne a bench player if he has all the wonderful attributes you accord to him?       

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jul 2014, 04:58
#11
03 Jul 2014, 04:58#11
 I say...."Morne started in all but 2 of our last 8 tests". You say "Morne didn't play in any of the Scottish tests- so wrong in the first sentence"
But the two tests he didn't play in we're the Scottish tests...so I ask you with tears in my eyes.....what was wrong in the first sentence.
You seem to have a problem with basic logic.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Jul 2014, 10:09
#12
03 Jul 2014, 10:09#12
 Mozart
You seem to have a problem understanding rugby.   What is your comments on the rest of what I wrote?   For instance hat is a "running" flyhalf?    Why do you think Morne is the regular bench flyhalf for Stade Francais and not the staring flyhalf?
You referred to 31 tries being scored in the last 8 tests the Springboks played in.   I went through the list of 8 games and found the following:-
2013Australia         -     3 triesNew Zealand   -     4 triesWales            -     2 tries Scotland        -     4 triesFrance          -      1 try2014Wales            -     9 tries (2 penalty tries)Scotland        -     8 tries
Of the 14 tries scored - 14 were scored when Morne was NOT on the field of play - he was injured early in the case of the Welsh test last year,
You shouted and screamed about two passes he made to loose forwards in the Ellis Park game - but it was not long accurate passes - mere routine passes and because the loosies concerned  got going and Habana scoring two tries - Morne was suddenly the key origintor of the tries - he merely was a player instructed to pass balls - not to kick. The key players who opened up the space was in both cases  were the loosies concerned.  Even if he can be credited with those two tries - why did it happen only twice in 8 tests that he played a creditable role in backline play?   
Lets look at the 31 tries you mentioned.
*   Against Scotland we scored 12 tries in two games that Morne did not play in.*   Against Wales 10 tries (inclusive of two penalty tries) - none involving Morne Steyn at all  - matter of fact he was off the field in the case of two tries scored against Wales..*   Against the AB's we scored 6 tries - two of which Morne according to you played a major role in.*   The rest were tries against France and Australia - in which Morne did not lay a role at all.
So suddenly because Morne was on the field of play - he was the originator or involved in the try scoring.    The key player involved in those games were actually Willie le Roux who scored 7 of the tries and was credited with creating at least another 7 tries.
So get real on the issue - Morne was a flyhalf in tests where often enough despite him tries have been scored.      
         
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Jul 2014, 15:23
#13
03 Jul 2014, 15:23#13

Morne is a top quality flyhalf......bwhaaaahaaaaa.......Moz, no wonder you like Meyer so much.

 

 

Imagine Jake selecting Morne at 10 - no way in hell would he do that  

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
03 Jul 2014, 15:33
#14
03 Jul 2014, 15:33#14
He has started only three Top 14 matches. Is in the Second String for Stade. Has "timing issues ". Is in "a slump ", lacking form, needs time to adapt ( he's had a Season ) and is making mistakes not seen by him before....all comments made by his Coach Quesada. 

He has also been usurped by the Rookie Fly Half expected to be his understudy.
So, he is clearly not his best, anyone honest will admit that. 

And the argument about his talent, natural or otherwise, has gone on for long enough !!!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Jul 2014, 15:39
#15
03 Jul 2014, 15:39#15
What the French club have realised - is just how shit he is - Morne will be back with the Bulls shortly, no doubt!!  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Jul 2014, 15:55
#16
03 Jul 2014, 15:55#16
 Ahhh another doos who has a lot to say and who hasn't watched the games.

In any case, I think it would be great to have him back at the Bulls. Then the Bulls can go back to having two top class flyhalves in him and Pollard and play them in tandem like HM did so successfully with Morne and Derick Hougaard.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Jul 2014, 16:15
#17
03 Jul 2014, 16:15#17
Dutchman take your stupid ignorance and bury it in your laaaaarger......one would swear anyone needed to watch any more games Morne has played in in order to formulate an opinion of the useless player - he has always been shit, will always be shit  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Jul 2014, 16:21
#18
03 Jul 2014, 16:21#18
 Well, you are the doos who have an opinion about Morne and the situation at Stade Francais, and the most hilarious part is that you base your opinion on what you read in ou CleverTrevor's posts, and not at what really happened in the games and in the season.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
03 Jul 2014, 16:56
#19
03 Jul 2014, 16:56#19
Ceradyne.......he was selected to start three times in the Top 14 and his Coach has made many comments about his lack of form, all readily available on the internet, even for those who haven't seen him play this year.
I have seen some matches in the Top 14 and I saw both matches against Wasps. 

As I said in my above post, any honest soul would admit he has not been at his best....his Coach certainly thinks he has not !
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Jul 2014, 17:50
#20
03 Jul 2014, 17:50#20
 Correction, Becs. Morne started in no less than 9 Top 14 games:


Bayonne - 2 Nov '13
Grenble - 20 Dec '13
Biarritz - 4 Jan '14
Castres - 24 Jan '14
Clermont - 8 Feb '14
Brive - 15 Feb
Oyonax - 22 Feb '14
Montpellier - 28 Feb
Racing Metro - 29 Mar '14

In fact, IIRC, the two games after the 6N, he started with Plisson on the bench. Yes, His coach did make a comment late in 2013, IIRC, about Steyn's form and he was asked whether it was a concern, and he said that it was no concern at all. I read it.

His coach must surely be a blithering idiot if he still kept playing him. Then again, his coach made a balls-up of the second game against Wasps. Any honest sould would admit that Plisson was not at his best in that game. I have watched it and Plisson was the main culprit, apart from the clown who got carded. Which, in fact, brings us to another problem that Plisson had in that game. He knew they were a man down and he saw that they got hammered every time they tried to run out of their 22m and he did not have the presence of mind to try and kick them out of their 22m. Go figure. In the fist game against Wasps SF came away with a 1 point loss, with Morne Steyn starting.




DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jul 2014, 18:18
#21
03 Jul 2014, 18:18#21

Ceradyne

 

You have spoilt it all my good man

 

You spoil a good thread by posting actual facts about a great player

 

You should know better than that 

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
03 Jul 2014, 18:44
#22
03 Jul 2014, 18:44#22
 I already posted video evidence exposing Michael's lies. He is so factual and logical that he deduced that video evidence is "a wild fabrication of the truth. Stick to the stats, that's where you cannot be faulted". He accused Morné of loosing the Ellis Park test and my video showed him making two try saving tackles and covering multiple slipped tackles to boot. He accused Morné of losing the Dunedin test of 2012, I showed in clear video footage his beloved Goosen directly conceding two tries and costing us the result. This is all plain bias, lies. Poor character at work here.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
03 Jul 2014, 21:19
#23
03 Jul 2014, 21:19#23
He is listed as a Utility Back in the Squad List of Stade, Ceradyne.
The points in my original post, including those in speech marks, are direct quotes from his Coach. Including the point about him being a Second String player. 

He was appalling against Wasps and you know it.  
But, of course, blue is black and the world is flat. Just the type of thing you all say Saffex does, never listens to actual opposing fact.
Ah well. There's a thing  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Jul 2014, 22:40
#24
03 Jul 2014, 22:40#24
 Becs, you are starting to suffer from Mike-alitis.

He is not listed as a utility back. He is listed as a Demi-d'ouverture and if that is French for utility back, then I am afraid, Stade Francais do not have any players listed as flyhalves because the other two "flyhalves" Jules Plisson and Meyer Bosman....... yes, Meyer Bosman are also listed as "utility backs". So, that is one myth busted.

Yes, as I have agreed already, Gonzalo Quesada has expressed his views but that was last year, shortly after Morne joined  the club. Since you are trying to pull a typical Mike stunt and just use a few words from the article to suit your agenda..... it is no secret your are in bed with the anti-Morne squad...... let me quote you the entire article. Remember that I said elsewhere that Quesada was not concerned about the "slump". Also note the date of the article.

Stade coach not worried by Steyn form

21st December 2013 11:37


Stade Français manager Gonzalo Quesada has admitted that Mornè Steyn has not been at his best for the club but insists he is not worried about the South African's form.

The Springbok fly-half has played just five games for the Parisian club and has only started just twice since his move from the Bulls as international commitments have meant that he missed the start of the Top 14 season.

Steyn kicked three penalties and converted countryman Meyer Bosman's try in Friday's 21-6 win over Grenoble but uncharacteristically made a number of errors.

Quesada believes that the 29-year-old needs time to adapt to his new set up and team-mates.

"Steyn had a tough match. He had some timing problems," said Quesada after the Friday's victory at Stade Jean Bouin.

"He has not had a lot of time with us as the team begins to get to know each other really well.

"But it's a stage we have to go through, I 'm not worried even if he did not play at his best and he made mistakes that we have rarely seen from him at home. "



So, there you have. Just as I said. It is funny that Quesada allegedly spoke about the slump and then, after the "concerns about the so-called slump", went ahead and selected him in the starting line-up a further seven times in the Top14 alone and not the bullshit alleg ed total of three times like you said in the entire. That is apart from the Amlin Cup games and the one play-off game against Wasps.


I have not seen the first game against Wasps but it is also clear that you have not seen Plisson in the follow-up  game where he cost SF a spot in the European Champions Cup. There is no way that he could have been worse than Morne in the first game.



Now if we could  finally just get to your direct quotes from the coaches. You said the following:

"Has "timing issues ". Is in "a slump ", lacking form, needs time to adapt ( he's had a Season ) and is making mistakes not seen by him before....all "

"Slump"? Bullshit. He has not said that.

"Lacking form"? Bullshit. He did not say that. He said he had a touch match.

"Time to adapt (he has had a season)"? Bullshit again. He has not even been with the team for four months.

"He is making mistakes that we have not seen by him before...all"? Bullshit again. He said that he made mistakes that "we have rarely seen from him before...".

So that is bullshit on all accounts. The number of games that he has started, his position in the team and what his coach has said. Goodness, you almost make ou Maaikie look like a novice. You know what? Many moons ago you were highly upset when Moz called you a liar...............

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Jul 2014, 11:47
#25
04 Jul 2014, 11:47#25

Vlagshit - catch a fucking wake up you stupid Dutchman......all those quotes by the coach etc are polite ways of saying Morne is shit

 

Not worried about form - time to adapt to team mates - not a lot of time with us - bwhaaaahaaaaa.......and you cant pick up on what this really means Dutchie????  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 Jul 2014, 12:24
#26
04 Jul 2014, 12:24#26
 Piss off you fucking idiot. Those quotes were made on 21 Dec 2013, the day after Steyn's second starting game for SF. After that he went on to select him in the starting 15 another seven times in the Top14 and not three times like your little guardian angel tried to make us believe. You believe in the same bucket of bullshit that she believes in. She has been talking crap and you with her. Birds of a feather.

I wonder why she hasn't turned up to try and convince us that she has not been bullshitting. Probably busy trying to gather some kind of evidence that Planet Rugby is not an England site but indeed a site from Mars or some other planet.


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
04 Jul 2014, 13:06
#27
04 Jul 2014, 13:06#27

If this SafeSex guy is indeed 5'11

 

That's a lot of shit piled into that mediocre frame

 

Just pointing out the obvious

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jul 2014, 13:06
#28
04 Jul 2014, 13:06#28
 My take on Morne is that he has had a respectable international career but is not a great flyhalf. Carter of course was better. However even now I would say Cruden or Barrat offer more.
The fact of the matter is that one is always looking for a more complete package.
Where Meyer has got it wrong is seelcting a passive scrummie like Pienaar and a passive flyhalf like Morne as well. Du preez does not run at the opposition like he used to.So we find Meyer has got a half back pairing with little attacking flair. 
This is a very serious matter.
In Pollard we have the flyhalf answer. Goosen will need to toughen up and there is also Lambie with his BMT and clear thinking who has the attributes to make a good flyhalf.
Meyer missed a trick in not getting Reinach invoved. Pienaar has been hopless for a few years now. Meyer does after all want to score more tries.
Another Meyer contradiction. He wants to field a dominant pack yet selects wee matfield 106 kg  at lock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thereby handing away our advantage in the tight 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very bad error.
The other Meyer error is not having a faster Bok loose trio when playing on the high veldt. Alberts may pay off in the NH but not in the RC. Put in Burger at the very least
Meyer is a builder and one only hopes he realises the error of his ways.
I am afraid ou windpomp has little clue and gets lost in mountainous volume of words! I E a windpomp! Bwahahahhahaha 



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Jul 2014, 14:35
#29
04 Jul 2014, 14:35#29
 Beeno
Morne always was a safe flyhalf - but with serious limitations as well.   He has one major deficiency - his inability to read games and make decisions to maximize situations to best value ofo his team.  The main problem remains - Morne plays according to pre-match instructions and do not realize when it is necessary to change the game.   That makes him extremely robotic and predictable.  You should never have a predictable pivot - it limits the whole backline and the defenders know exactly what to expect.   
I think Morne made a mistake in going to Stade Francaise - the move resulted in bringing his deficiencies at flyhalf under the microscope - something which would not really have happened locally. There is no way that Morne is really of international standard anymore as you so rightly point out. 
With Fourie du Preez out of contention for the remainder of this year - he will only play three months rugby in japan before the June 2015 test series and by then he will be 33 years of age.   With minimal training in the next six months and only three months soft rugby in Japan - will he be good enough to make a comeback in 2015?  I doubt it very much.   Pienaar is also not the answer - he slowed down considerably and became a NH kicking sc rummie - not very effectively at that - and his service slowed down as well.   
The other players yo have dealt with in detail - and I agree whole-heartedly with you on those. .
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jul 2014, 14:50
#30
04 Jul 2014, 14:50#30
 Mike of great interest will be how Pollard is used and how well he goes. If he performs t othe level he looks capable of  he will take over.  Meyer will have to bring in another scrummie and hopefully he will shine. 
Pienaar must be running out of chances. What I cant understand about Pienaar is that he made some of the best breaks I have seen from a scrummie - brillaint runner with the ball. What happened to that side of his rugby. He is shirking the physical side of the game and sees himself as a kicker and a link. A good scrummie dispite his size takes on the opposition with some sniping breaks. When last have we seen Pienaar run at the opposition?
Meyer has erred in his selection of Pienaar. I can still accept Du Preez as he has an incredibly good rugby brain and very fast reactions and excell ent boot. 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
04 Jul 2014, 15:12
#31
04 Jul 2014, 15:12#31
Excuse me, I am not turning up because I actually have a life away from a keyboard.
Is that ok with you, you sad little pedant ? 


On the Sky website at the end of this Season Morne Steyn is listed as a Utility Back.That is a fact.
He was also not a regular first choice and he was damned useless in most of the games he played in.
The commentators during the first Wasps game were discussing how a man of his experience should have been far more capable than that and how he had only been a boot really....and even that was failing him these days. We all hear these things, except dear old Ceradyne.
Yes he did say those words that are in direct quotation marks......unlike you, I do not make things up. The rest was paraphrased, not from that interview you are quoting, incidentally, so it is interesting that he has much to say about his firm or lack thereof, isn't it ? 
As for your obsession with Planet Rugby, the UK based site of an Australian owned Company. I don't think that makes it an English Forum, does it, love ? 
 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 Jul 2014, 17:43
#32
04 Jul 2014, 17:43#32
 Becs, you are busy digging yourself deeper and deeper in the hole. Your words were: "He is listed as a Utility Back in the Squad List of Stade", and now you have decided that it is actually on Sky. Well let's see who shall we trust..... his club or Sky? No-brainer, IMO. What is more.. I have just checked on the Sky website. They have information of the following leagues:

B & I Lions, 6N, Aviva, HC, Super Rugby, The RC, PRO12, Championship and Sevens. http://www1.skysports.com/rugbyunion/competitions/championship

I would like to see a link where Morne is listed as a utility back at Stade Francais. Not that it of any importance, unless you would want to argue that Sky would be more accurate than the club itself.

You have said that you have seen some of the games, yet you know that he was damn useless. Are you serious? You did not even know how many games he started and you think you are in a position to make a judgement on his overall play for the club. Keep on digging.

I have told you that I have not seen the first game and unlike you, I do not comment on things that I have not seen, heard or read. I have definitely watched the second game though and I can assure you that the (English) commentators were discussing the fact that Plisson was failing miserably in his game and that the correct option would have been to bring Steyn on in the second half as the only way for SF to salvage the game.

If the SF coach has mentioned a "slump" the  please provide a link, because the one that I quoted was the article that I saw, and once again, if Steyn was as useless as you have said,then why would he have persisted with him. In any case, I stand by each and every one of my "bullshit" remarks, because that is what they are. This one in particular: "Time to adapt (he has had a season)". It is of course bullshit because those remarks by the coach were made after only his second game in the starting XV. He definitely did not have a season to adapt, at that stage.

You were the one who has an obses sion and jumped on the Planet Rugby bandwagon after I said that you should have a look at the way the speak on that forum. You were the one who started of on whether it is an English/England site. I only corrected you on that and still you are battling. Planet Rugby have their headquarters in England. That alone makes it an English site but there is more. They are a subsidiary of  365Media (another English company) and BSkyB who have their headquarters in London. The only aspect where Murdoch and co come into the picture is the fact that BSkyB was formed by a merger between Sky Television (Murdoch's crowd) and BSB, a British company. So, you can try again. Planet Rugby is as English as they come.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jul 2014, 17:56
#33
04 Jul 2014, 17:56#33
 Becs never mind ou windpomp he specialises in LONG drawn out messages which always indicated he has missed the point. BwahahahahahahaWindpomp are you saying Morne has set the world aflame overseas? A simple yes or no will suffice.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Jul 2014, 18:07
#34
04 Jul 2014, 18:07#34
Cerasdyne
Let me quote you:-
"If the SF coach has mentioned a "slump" the  please provide a link, because the one that I quoted was the article that I saw, and once again, if Steyn was as useless as you have said,then why would he have persisted with him."
They persisted with Steyn - on the bench?   In view of his massive contract they had to use him for something  -  so they did the best they could do under the circumstances.   I saw a couple of games Steyn played - even coming on fromt eh ebnch and I do not blame Stade Framcais for not starting with him.
His decision-making was  poor to non-existent - same as it always was - so he was not really suiitable for Stade Francais - who really thought he was an acceptable flyhalf prior to contracting him - something they must regret sincerely by now.
Forget about Morne ever doing anything constructive in a game - goal kicking i iis his only asset - the rest are all average to poor.    


 


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 Jul 2014, 18:15
#35
04 Jul 2014, 18:15#35
 Ou Maaikie, gaan praat jou kak met iemand anders Boet. You have also not watched the games and you obviously do not even what happened in the games. Why don't you comment on the remarks about the movement of SF up and down the log and their showing in the in the Amlin competition and the two play-off games. Don't worry, don't break your head. I already know. It is because you know fuck-all and you can't comment. If you do not have a little string of stats, you are stuffed. Why don't you use your stats to prove how crap Morne was in the Top14?

Persisted with him on the bench you say? You have obviously ignored the list that I posted from the Top14 games alone. I have not even bothered to look at the Amlin cup games.

Bayonne - 2 Nov '13
Grenble - 20 Dec '13
Biarritz - 4 Jan '14
Castres - 24 Jan '14
Clermont - 8 Feb '14
Brive - 15 Feb
Oyonax - 22 Feb '14
Montpellier - 28 Feb
Racing Metro - 29 Mar '14
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Jul 2014, 19:50
#36
04 Jul 2014, 19:50#36
Ceradine
No need to worry too much about the stats of Morne Steyn - more to worry about the fact that he warm the bench more than he started.   I did not watch all the games he played in  - but those which I saw when he started he was below par  and those he came from the bench he was worse.
The guy is not an international flyhalf's backside - or perhaps he is.  Anyone crazy enough to think otherwise must be deluded and void of any rugby knowledge.
This is a very decent answer to the crap you constantly spout about Morne Steyn on this site. .       

BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
04 Jul 2014, 19:59
#37
04 Jul 2014, 19:59#37
 

This Steyn argument has been raging on a lot of threads and to be honest is getting very boring. Mike and Becs you have been owned on this thread. Rather cool your keyboards for another topic.

 

In my opinion, for the most part HM is doing a great job and I am glad he is in charge and not any of the clowns on this site. The only two viable 10’s he has are Steyn and Pollard. Morne haters obviously disagree. I prefer to have him in the mix even if he is more conservative. From the games I have watched he seems to have his confidence back and is running more and distributing better. He is never going to set the running game alight but the Springboks have never really had that game plan. If we were going to move in that direction it will require a lot more than just a new 10.   

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 Jul 2014, 23:07
#38
04 Jul 2014, 23:07#38
 "......I did not watch all the games he played in...."

Case closed. Gaan pis en gaan  slaap. Don't forget to put on your incontinence diaper before going to bed.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jul 2014, 23:23
#39
04 Jul 2014, 23:23#39
Morne has done a job for us. Pollard looks like a great in the making. So right now Bokbf has it right. Leave Goosen to mature a bit and harden up. Some take longer than others.Lambie has been out for a long time.If injuries happen then we turn to Boschoff and Jean Louis Potgieter - an underrated player.Would Boschoff be better than Morne - possibly not but who knows as Bochoff has never had a chance. Ditto Potgieter.



CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
05 Jul 2014, 00:31
#40
05 Jul 2014, 00:31#40
 A few facts (borrowed from someone who, I am sure, would not mind if it is repeated here) about SA flyhalves, that some might find interesting while it would probably get others to start writing essays to prove that it is useless bullshit and it might even trigger one or two other posters' tourettes again:

Most tests:

1. (56) Morne Steyn

2. (42) Butch James

3. (35) Henry Honiball

4. (32) Jaco vd Westhuyzen

5. (32) Pat Lambie

6. (31) Andre Pretorius

7. (28) Naas Botha

... (25) Piet Visagie

... (22) Joel Stransky

... (13) Jannie de Beer

... (10) Hansie Brewis

 

Not bad for a useless player in such an important position.


Averages, as comparing the totals only is not really fair to anyone.

Points scored per game:

1. (13.9) Jannie de Beer

2. (11.7) Morne Steyn (660 points total)

3. (11.14) Naas Botha (second most total points for a flyhalf 312)

4. (10.9) Joel Stransky

5. (5.4) Andre Pretorius

6. (5.2) Piet Visagie

7. (4.46) Henry Honiball

... (2.1) Pat Lambie

... (1.6) Johan Goosen


An interesting point here, is that in his last 13 starts, Morne Steyn's average was 13.38, which indicates an improvement, directly opposed to the alleged "slump in form"... If his few minutes (5) as fullback replacement is included, it is 12.42 points per game average over the last 14 matches.

We can also add the fact that the average number of tries scored by the Springboks in Morne's last 13 starts was 4 per match (52 tries in total).


Average tries scored per match:

1. (0.27) Joel Stransky

2. (0.24) Piet Visagie

3. (0.15) Jannie de Beer

4. (0.15) Jaco vd Westhuyzen

5. (0.143) Morne Steyn

6. (0.1) Hansie Brewis

7. (0.07) Butch James

8. (0.07) Naas Botha

... (0.03) Pat Lambie

... (0) Johan Goosen


In terms of numbers, Morne scored 8 tries, Piet Visagie and Joel Stransky 6, Jaco vd Westhuyzen 5.... And the great running flyhalf Honiball a full one! Even Honiball's sub (Franco Smith), scored 2...


Another interesting point from this, is that Danie Craven had the following to say about probably our best running flyhalf, ever (Piet Visagie)... "He reminded me of Tony Harris in many ways - a player who seldom broke but when he did, it usually led to a try."




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