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FORUM / RUGBY /  South Arican tightheads

South Arican tightheads

Started by Beeno118 REPLIES382 VIEWS· 21 May 2014, 00:32
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
21 May 2014, 00:32
#1
21 May 2014, 00:32#1

no I am not rferring to ou rooitwit but to tighthead props.

Ex Sport 24



When tighthead props such as the Cheetahs' Rossouw de Klerk and the Sharks Wiehahn Herbst cannot even make their respective side’s benches, one has to believe that a position once deemed critical in terms of stock shortage, is on the rise.

Throw in the fact that Brok Harris, sure not everyone’s cup of tea, but a tighthead who can certainly do a job at Super Rugby level, can only get a game - at loosehead nogal - when all of Frans Malherbe, Steven Kitshoff and Oli Kebble are injured, and one has further proof of how far we have come in terms of stocking that giant block of granite around which a scrum is built.

It was not that long ago when pondering “life after Jannie” was a heartburn inducing occupation, with Jannie du Plessis being the only man in South Africa who could do justice to the Bok No 3 jersey.

Hence the green light on a truly unsavoury “project tighthead” for Coenie Oosthuizen … A project that is quite clearly nowhere near its completion, as proved by the Force in Bloemfontein on Saturday. The Force! (As noted by Beeno)

And while Heyneke Meyer, Os du Randt and Pieter de Villiers have their fun masterminding this little project, all it is doing is preventing real tighthead props like Maks van Dyk, who has been nothing short of stellar in his debut Super Rugby season, and De Klerk, a proper chunk of meat with real tighthead credentials, from developing into real Bok contenders.

Trevor Nyakane is a better tighthead than Oosthuizen! Yes Coenie’s contribution to general play is enormous (as was evident on Saturday when a break of his was so good that he outdid his support players), but bring that to the Boks via the bench, as understudy to the Beast, or if obsessed with projects, then as a hooker, as suggested on Twitter this week. 

Even with Bok incumbent Du Plessis being played into the ground by Jake White, which in turn sees another tighthead contender, Lourens Adriaanse, being played out of form through not getting a single start, and Herbst thus seeking greener pastures overseas, the stocks are such that crazy projects are no longer necessary.

Apart from the names already mentioned, think Pat Cilliers, Marcel van der Merwe, Werner Kruger, and … Julian Redelinghuys!

Perhaps it is just the cyclical nature of sport, but I think these new scrum laws have also played their part. 

Without the massive hit as a weapon, props have become better one on one scrummagers, using strength, technique and timing.

Also, with the straight feed (well, for the first few rounds at least) and having to wait for the ref to OK the feed, getting your own ball back has become more of an art than a given. So instead of the hookers going for the strike, and thus making it a 7 v 8 man scrum, some sides are now opting just to go for the 8-man mini shove over the ball as the scrummie feeds the ball.

The Lions were the first to start doing this, and now boast the best scrum success percentage in the tournament. They sit at 93% with the next best being the Crusaders and Stormers on 89%. The Brumbies are the worst on 76%. And for this, great credit must go to their front row, and especially their tighthead, Redelinghuys.

From unknown, to best in Super Rugby, Redelinghuys leads a charge of exciting young tighthead props that render “Project Coenie” superfluous to company requirements, Jannie no longer guaranteed a start, and an exciting new dawn for Springbok scrumming.

Tank is a former Western Province tighthead prop who now heads up Tankman Media, and sprouts forth on all things rugby on the Front Row Grunt

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 May 2014, 00:50
#2
21 May 2014, 00:50#2
 An interesting article, but mostly hogwash. Unfortunately one can only have one tighthead on the field.....so having more potential but unproven tightheads is of little practical significance. We still only have one guy who has proven he can take the pressure when the chips are down....I have little confidence in Malherbe or Adriaanse. As for Naks van Dyk, the jury remains out.
We are still looking for our own Castrogiovanni.....even if Dave remains a staunch Moojati fan.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 May 2014, 01:05
#3
21 May 2014, 01:05#3
 The one player that can take the pressure is assumedly Jannie du Plessis - who gives away penalties by the half dozen because he cannot take the pressure and use illegal means to try and get the upper hand in scrumming.    Useless outside the scrum as well - so what have we got to do with this 30 year old who f ind the young guns difficult to contend with?   
There is life after Jannie and those who think otherwise is either not wanting to see it - or is headstrong and cannot accept the idea that older players have to be replaced because of declining performance capacity.    
There are at least three tightheads who perform equal or better than Jannie - so replacement time is on the cards.
   
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
21 May 2014, 01:10
#4
21 May 2014, 01:10#4

I'm not sure how many have noticed the rather vast improvement in the Bulls scrum performance. In fact, their strength should have dropped when Matfield, who is not a strong scrummer, returned to their squad. So why the improvement? Simply when Matfield returned, Marcel van der Merwe started as their tighthead with great success.

 

And I think Heyneke Meyer saw this as well because it is not part of Meyer's selection policy to select someone with so few S15 games behind his name. I hope Meyer will see the light, drop some of his conservatism and select Marcel as the Boks' tighthead.

 

Politics will keep Beast at 1, but Coenie should really be our loosehead, but I hope Meyer will at least keep Coenie on the bench. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 May 2014, 01:47
#5
21 May 2014, 01:47#5
 Blikkies
I agree with you - Van der Merwe did very well in the two games played at tighthead and that he did that despite Matfield being so poor in tight phases of the game.
However, Marcel is very inexperienced and the fact that Meyer called him up is due more to see what he can do in training and put him on the future list.  He will do with Marcel what he did with Malherbe - he called him to his training camp and whenever there was an injury scare he would call him up to join the squad as a potential back up.  He called him up before the Aukland test in 2012 and the London EOYT test the same year.  He only selected Malherbe as a starter in the Welsh test a year later and change to Coenie when Malherbe got injured.     
I think for the time being - Meyer will continue to use Du Plessis, Malherbe and Coenie at tight heads.   I have a feeling that Coenie will in future be utrilized more as a bench player - because of fear that he could develop further injury problems if not handled with care.   If Jannie goes the next player as tighthead will be Malherbe - with Coenie on the bench.   
Van der Merwe's time will come - he will be phased in over the next two to three years.          
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 May 2014, 02:08
#6
21 May 2014, 02:08#6
Well Blikkies he did replace Werner Kruger.....there was bound to be an improvement in scrumming. But  I do like the looks of Marcel. I hope you are right, it's a crucial position and Jannie is getting on with no replacements in sight. Although Coenie did surprisingly well against France after being coached by Pieter de Villiers. Still I also believe he is really a loosehead. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 May 2014, 02:14
#7
21 May 2014, 02:14#7
 Mozart
Are you stupid or plain obstinate.   Malherbe did very well against the British Lions prop in the Wales test and you just don't want to recognise it.  If he was not injured Coenie would have been on the bench against the French as well.   Hell - when can anybody get over your dumb  hatred of some players?  
Matter of fact - before his latest injury Malherbe was the highest rated prop in Super 15 - so it showed how really stupid you are with your prejudice.        
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 May 2014, 03:06
#8
21 May 2014, 03:06#8
Look Oom, you follow every post of mine with a snarling dog attack. I don't particularly  care, given you are who you are....enuff said on that score. But for the sake of efficiency I would suggest that you no longer try to persuade me of your view. If we happen to agree on something I regard that as an accident. Mostly, however, you border on the imbecilic....operating with a short deck of cards. And of course if you get caught in a corner you lie through your false teeth. Compile your err oneous stats, quote Naas to your heart's content, but leave me out of it oompie.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 May 2014, 03:30
#9
21 May 2014, 03:30#9
 Mozart
If there is a rugby imbecile on this board - it is you.  I do not follow your comments - but has to express an opinion and point out to other members when you are stupid - otherwise they may get an idea hat you in fact has some rugby knowledge.   In future - I will just react without quoting your name.   I always gave you the benefit of the doubt - but maybe Rooinek's assessment of you is correct after all.
    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 May 2014, 03:50
#10
21 May 2014, 03:50#10
So you are smarter than other members....there's funny for you.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 May 2014, 13:05
#11
21 May 2014, 13:05#11

Funny thing is Moz, Castro was no better than the rest.

 

Our tighthead situation is better than it has ever been.

 

We have Jannie, Coenie, Malherbe, Marcel v/d Merwe and Frik Kirsten who are all test quality tightheads.

 

Add to these we have Maks v/Dyk, Adriaanse, Herbst, Rossouw de Klerk and Redlinghys. Not to mention the fact that Nkanyane looks pretty comfortable at 3

 

Our stocks are better than ever in every position, so there is no reason in the world our national coach cant find a winning side

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 May 2014, 18:03
#12
21 May 2014, 18:03#12
I'm not contesting the fact we have more decent tightheads. But as of now our best bet is still an older and probably declining Jannie....that's who will be on the field in the RC. Ergo our tighthead position is getting worse as a practical matter.....until one of these younger guys shows they can really dominate a top NZ looshead. We can't play a list....we play one tighthead. And certainly Malherbe and Coenie at tighthead are no advance in scrumming.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 May 2014, 18:20
#13
21 May 2014, 18:20#13
 How many penalties per game for Jannie is acceptable?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 May 2014, 18:23
#14
21 May 2014, 18:23#14
Wrong......Coenie, v/d Merwe and Malherbe are all better than Jannie  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
21 May 2014, 18:25
#15
21 May 2014, 18:25#15
 Jannie is useless. 
It he has to start at tight head it would be better to only have him on the field for scrums and lineouts, and then sit on the sideline 
He must be ranked as the bok whom concedes the most amount of tackles that led to tries. 
Attacking opposition players look for him on the field as a shield to prevent them from being tackled. He not only misses the tackle but he blocks other would be tacklers.
I think it was Brendon Venter commenting recently how unreliable Jannie is. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
21 May 2014, 19:03
#16
21 May 2014, 19:03#16
"Perhaps it is just the cyclical nature of sport, but I think these new scrum laws have also played their part. 

"Without the massive hit as a weapon, props have become better one on one scrummagers, using strength, technique and timing."
I have often questioned how New Zealand SuperXV props have been effective. If South Africa are excellent in mauls,  then this should be the same with scrums. 
Since the new scrum laws- or at least a revert to the old laws back before I watched rugby,our teams have taken back the mantle as the best scrummagers.
Now we routinely slap New Zealand teams around at scrum time, and Australian sides as well.
One of my favourite matches was watching the Hurricanes being slapped around in Durban. At one point I thought a tactical substitution of bringing one of the cheerleaders into the tighthead position, such was the dire state of the scrums
A team cant have their cake and eat it. If they want small forwards that are all fetchers it will help at rucks, however the rules should allow a fair contest in the scrums and mauls so that they get bullied. 
In the past Australia had players like Ben Alexander who were just able to push the rules and compete against a more powerful player. Less so now.

Crockett is another proven cheat. Before the change to the laws he looked like a good scrummager, not so now.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 May 2014, 19:16
#17
21 May 2014, 19:16#17
 PJN du Plessis0/000/0/0000008/00/030/0
Jannie tackled like a Trojan last Saturday....conceded three penalties...but was a rock in the scrums. These 7 man scrums put huge pressure on the props, especially the tightheads.  Jannie held firm, witness the fact that Crockett was penalized twice at scrum time.
He remains our best tighthead by a mile.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 May 2014, 20:02
#18
21 May 2014, 20:02#18
Jannie is not our best scrumming tighthead.......he is no better than Coenie, Malherbe and v/d Merwe, who all offer so much more in general play  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 May 2014, 20:57
#19
21 May 2014, 20:57#19

That's an assertion. I can't disprove it....but I don't believe it.

— END OF THREAD —

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