The puns and ironies in those 4 words.... so many....
1. The day that Spies "hits" 1 (tackle), will be a minor miracle.
2. Could be a cricket headline
3. Bench press (though i think he may be closer to 180!
But the fact that he got close to 100 caps is beyond my understanding.
he is the most useless number 8 in the country!
His work rate is mediocre!! I'd rather have fat Twatson playing ahead of Spies.
Anyway... congrats Pierre. You are the recipient of a minor miracle.
Amen.
Choppo, while I'm the first to agree with you that Pierre Spies has never lived up to the massive hype around him when he started his career, I do think you're being a tiny bit harsh on him as he's having his best season in about 5 years.
We just don't seem to have any world-class number 8s in the same league as Kieran Read, Scott Higginbotham and Sergio Parisse so Spies is about the only real option the Boks have. Who else?
Tell you one thing, Redneck ... if Spies is the best we have, then we're in trouble ... cause he's truly useless.
Not a Bok by any means.
I rate Keegan Daniel as a better 8 and would even go as far as to chalk my favourite Jacques Engelbrecht up before this frightened wimp.
Shying away from the collision as an 8th man is a bit of a problem, no matter the amount of talent the man may have It's just not going to work..
Red...
Got to disagree bud.
1. Willem Alberts
2. Engelbrecht
3. Trotter Vermulen (before he got injured)
4. Prob even Keegan "Boertjie" Daniel at the moment
Ask yourself... though He has the physical attributes... does he get over the advantage line more often than any of the above?
Does he put in half the amount of tackles that KD oe Engelbrecht does?
U just cant fathom how he has lasted so long.
He has 1 outstanding performance in like every 10 games... which keeps everyone on the edge of their seats in the hope that he may put another one in soon... but he always lets us down.
great bloke. Worst Number 8 since readmission!
Pierre Spies - Bullt like Tarzan. Plays like Jane
Our best 8 has been Vermeulen, but the player who should be playing 8 is Arno Botha of the Bulls. Philip v/d Walt has also been good for the Cheetahs.
I also think that 8 is Marcel Coetzee's best position as he is not a 6 and not big enough for 7. The same applies to Labascagne. One certainty is that Daniel is not an 8.
If I was the Bok coach, I would still try get my hands on CJ Stander.
Gotta agree Saf...
Totally forgot about Coetzee.
THough i suspect that Alberts would fit the Bok mould better.
I'd also like to see Arno Botha in the mix. Great work rate and incredibly tough.
All this bullcrap about spies is killing me.
Hell... lets all go to gym so we can look like Hulk...
Maybe we'll get a look in!
Doesnt seem like skill and grit matter much if you want to be a number 8
Chippo
If my stats is correct - Spies played rugby at Super 15 level for 8 000 minutes. That is the theory - however, since he vanished from site for at least 70 minutes in each game - he actually plyed for only 1000 minutes, For the rest he did zilch - soo I would rather have Arno Botha as the Bulls no 8. Spies is a Bulls favourite that brings virtuallynothing to the back row.
There is more to being an 8th man than having the ability to freighttrain over your opposition.
Alberts has that set of skills down pat however does not have the necessary pace on cross cover defence. He's a bulldozer meant to get over the advantage line giving his team go forward. I'm a big fan of his and believe he should stay on the blindside. Not an 8th man in my opinion.
Look at Parisse and Read. Best on the planet if you ask me. Fantastic to watch them work.
Coetzee is not an 8th man's butthole and truth be told nor is Daniel. Both are opensiders.
Vermeulen is nothing special either. He's a good hard playing rugby player but just doesn't warrant Bok selection if you ask me. We have better options to pick from.
Stander was a massif loss. How he was permitted to leave our shores without a fight is beyond me. A natural 8th man if ever there was one.
Arno is struggling to settle. He blows hot and cold ... no consistency!! Reckon if dumbass Ludeke gave him more game time we'd see what he has to offer in the big leagues. Right now he needs time to find his feet. Another season or three.
My top boys for the Bok 8 jersey has to go to Engelbrecht and Stander.
Hope Meyer doesn't bring chicken shit Spies back into the mix.
1. Willem Alberts
2. Engelbrecht
3. Trotter Vermulen (before he got injured)
4. Prob even Keegan "Boertjie" Daniel at the moment
Choppo . . .
1. Willem Alberts may have the attributes but he hasn't played often enough at number 8 to be considered in that position for tests and I doubt he has the pace.
2. Jacques Engelbrecht looks a good player but come on, he has half a season of S15 experience to his name . . . and he hasn't even been a regular for the Kings! You think he's done enough to take the Bok number 8 jersey off Pierre Spies?
3. I think you already answered yourself on Duane Vermeulen when you pointed out that he is currently injured and unavailable for selection . . . but I'd add that he's also a dirty thug and basically a very average player who is wildly overrated by the Stompie Blowhards.
4. I like Keegan Daniel but while his pace and ball skills disguise his lack of physicality in the Currie Cup and the Super 15 (even then not always), he's just not big and strong enough to be a test number 8. I'm not one of these okes who's obsessed by size but you need a big man in the number 8 jersey.
So you're left with Pierre Spies who we all know is not the most popular . . . but he is big, he's strong, he's fast, he's not a yellow card liability and he's vastly experienced.
Get real guys, Meyer will pick Pierre Spies as his Springbok number 8 and he doesn't really have much option.
Yeah, your probably right about Engelbrecht.
Very green, needs a few seasons to mature.
Still a lad I rate. Watch this space.
Don't be surprized to see the Kings lose him next season.
He's not making the starting Kings 15 currently due to Watson's connections. Definitely not due to a lack of talent.
Still after all is said and done, I think that the senior players around him like Alberts at 7 and possibly a Flo at 6 would be an awesome support base for this youngster to start his test career this season. Especially against the likes of Italy and Scotland.
He needs to be blooded as soon as possible.
i agree with the comments that spies is playing his best rugby in a long while, but still a pale shade of that form he had back in 2009 when he was a real mosntyer. i do think hes done enough in meyers eyes to be selected though.
i love the idea of englebrechtt as a Bok. when considering the time hes been on the filed only, he has made the most impact of all No8s in the comp let alone SA.
hes faster and more mbbile then slowmo vermeulen, hes a stronger ball carrier then spies and his workrate is second only to mr perpetual motion van der walt.
while its true hes only in his debut spXV year and he dosent make the kings starting XV all the time, u can take a page out of steve hansens book and still slecet him, the same way he did with sam cane last year and who is in line to be the Noz with the absence of king richie. i mean jeeez, sam cane still isnt a regular in the chiefs lineup.
englebrechtt dosent need to start for the Boks, but he could go on the bench and just gradually be eased into things. if he can do what he does in the kings enviroment, just imagine the possibilty of what he could do in the Boks.
i like botha and coetzee too, but i see them more as blindside flanekrs, not openside or a No8.
@saffex,
i think we have a different take on what makes an ideal No8, cos IMO coetzee and bothas size makes them better sutied at blindside then No8. IMO kerean read at 6ft4 and 112kgs is as small as u want to go, anything less is not ideal. cotzee and botha are only an inch shorter, but also about 10kgs lighter, this could have an effect on the scrum engine room as well, where bigger is better.
although ideally u would prefer ur blind side to be more beefy and help with the enforcing role on attack and defence, but both botha and coetzee have tremndous workrate which makes the size issue a fair trade off.
the ball skills u mentioned is another reason why i would have them at 6, cos during attacking scrums thier efficency with their ability to link up with the backline becomes significantly increased
regarding jacques englebrechett, u cant say hes not test material based on zero evidence, he could turn out to be like potgiter, but he could also be the next big thing.
i want to see him at least get a shot, hes used to making the most of his limited opportunities and ive got a feeling that he would rise to the ocassion. luckily though, most of these discussion are just arm chair critic " i wonders", the reality is, meyers going to pick a team that weill annoy everybody, but my silver lining is the Boks arent my fave team, so i wont be as peed as the rest of u folks, LMAO, :oP
