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Spies under scrutiny

Started by Beeno15 REPLIES266 VIEWS· 26 Jun 2012, 13:30
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jun 2012, 13:30
#1
26 Jun 2012, 13:30#1

RYAN VREDE of K3eo asks whether, 50 Tests into his career, Pierre Spies is the player he should be?

Pierre Spies’ half century of Test caps came and went without him being particularly impressive in Port Elizabeth. This has been his predominant state. Neither outstanding nor woeful. I’ve written before that I believe he is trapped in a maze of mediocrity in a Springbok shirt, and in three Tests against England he did little to challenge this view. 9Much to the annoyance of windpomp and certain bulle herders I know who dismissed these type of comments out of hand!)

No incompetent player plays 50 Tests (although Ricky Januarie came close with 47), so it is not entirely a question of his aptitude, rather what he has delivered measured against expectation. Whose expectation? The answer here is three-fold. It is partly self-created through his form early in his career and at stages thereafter. Secondly all three Springbok coaches he has played under have unfailingly selected him and justified their faith consistently. Then there is the expectation created by his physical constitution and athletic gifts, which trumps any of his counterparts in world rugby.

There are factors that cannot be discounted when trying to answer this question. He spent most of his formative years as a winger and was only converted to an eighthman in 2005 (What a tradegedy as I have often lameted and have been porved correct of course). He has effectively been forced to learn in the toughest environments in the game – Super Rugby and the Tri-Nations. That he has reached the milestone he has speaks volumes about his talent and adaptability.

I’ve interviewed Spies more times than I can remember but the one that endures in my memory came in 2009. I asked him who the best No 8 in the world was. He said when he plays to his potential, he is. ‘I believe I have something special because I’m unlike most No 8s in terms of my pace, and my experience as a backline player gives me a better understanding of how to link with them and about attacking lines in the backline,’ he offered.

There was nothing arrogant about the tone of that statement, simply a level of self-belief that was impressive and inspiring. Spies also spoke honestly about his shortcomings, most notably his inability to consistently impose himself when the game is tight.(Becausse as I noted long ago he does ot have the heart of a great forward)

Herein, in my view, lies the reason Spies has been a beautiful letdown. He lacks a degree of mongrel that would amplify his threat and elevate him to the level of man he should measure himself against – Kieran Read. Read stands alone as the pre-eminent No 8 in the game. Nobody is even close (Oh please Vermuelen will have the reed for breakfast!!!). With Richie McCaw’s influence waning, Read has become the fulcrum of the All Blacks’ pack – the man who sets the standards of brutality (hahahahahahaha man Vermuelen outmuscles the reed without raising a sweat Then of course we have alberts so wee reed can only look forward to a good snotklap!)  My frustration wth Spies is that he should be this for the Springboks but isn’t.

Keen to establish his view on this issue, I asked Spies on Saturday evening whether he was happy with the player he is after 50 Tests. ‘The older you get the more you realise you need to change your game,’ he began. ‘If I look at the player I am now I’m definitely not as brutal as I was when I was younger, but I am a lot cleverer and tougher and wiser. Your game definitely changes and you need to adapt.

When you are a youngster, people are not aware of you. After 50 Tests they are and that makes your challenge bigger. The game has changed and defences have become much better. The guys are aware of your strengths, they call you by name. Teams tend to kick a little less on me now when I drop back and I haven’t had the space and time I had early in my career.’

This is in line with what Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer told me in an informal chat a couple of weeks ago. The Bulls and Springboks have relied on Spies’ dynamism when they forced the opposition to punt on Spies through pressure defence. In the absence of the space and time that offers him, Spies’ potency has been significantly diluted.

So what now for the 27-year-old? Is he a lost cause destined never to reach his potential at Test level? I believe the last hope of avoiding that eventuality is Meyer’s tactical intelligence and inspirational influence on Spies(Agree but how also about some debulking and going back to WING) There is no doubt he has played his best rugby under his long time mentor and Meyer alone can rouse his student to a level of performance that meets expectations. That expectation is high for a reason. We’ve seen glimpses of the player Spies can be and it excites

Les hope Meyer can fire up Spiessies but I have my doubts. Compare his mongel to a Coetzee or a Burger or Vermuelen.It just aint there.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
26 Jun 2012, 14:25
#2
26 Jun 2012, 14:25#2

He really does have all the Physical attributes of a special player, but he is not able to use them. Beans, I think you may be right, he is too passive. When he does have a little space he is still a very dangerous player, but that just about never happens anymore. I still think if he is used properly by the coach he has something to offer the Springboks, but with the young, and not so young, loosies starting to put up their hands in this country, it is time to prove or move.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2012, 15:05
#3
26 Jun 2012, 15:05#3

Beeno

I  have looked at Spies carefully in the tests.  If he gets a ball in open play he looks good - but has a tendency to go to grround before he is tackled - don't know why.   He is not the type of player Vermeulen and Alberts is - and to my mind he is a problem for the team.   I think definitely  Read is not my idea of a top no 8 also - so the article quoted is a real red herring.   Read plays a harder game than Spies - but so do virtually everyone else.    Have always thought that Read is good - but to my mind not exceptional and I think he can be outplayed fairly easily.

Physically Spies is probably oine of the strongest players in the team - but he does not use physical strength to impose himself on the game and seems to be rather timid - no mongrel in him that one. 

My own opinion is he shoiuld be replaced sooner rather than later.

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jun 2012, 15:39
#4
26 Jun 2012, 15:39#4

Its like the writer says neither outstanding nor woeful - tapped in mediocrity which -given his athletic abilty -points to the mongrel factor. But Meyer may just get him right.

One hopes mMeyer is not too attached to the bulle players and can remain objective.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
26 Jun 2012, 16:04
#5
26 Jun 2012, 16:04#5

spies's biggest problem is the narrowmindend approach by his senior coaches when he came on the seen. he played wing his whole life until he played at senior level for the bulls where the same HM told him he will be a great no8....there i think his first problem came to be. he is big and very very quick where i felt he could have been much more of a weapon in the backline. he as a result has lost pace and by nature does not like the bumps and mongral style of play that a no8 is meant to be a pass master off....

as a wing he was amazing. his old man was a wing and was of a similar size. just shows how the rugby mentality has shifted in south africa. they see a big buy and he just gets shoved in the forwards. if a player like sonny bill was around he would have been a flank as well in south africa i reckon.

 

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
26 Jun 2012, 16:08
#6
26 Jun 2012, 16:08#6

he needs to move back to wing i feel and do some speed training and skills development with proper backline coaches not this has beens we have. how knows he might even be a great 13. just need to pair him with a small distrubution style of a second 5/8 and he will be a weapon. he has great pace and does pose a threat on attack. but at 8 for the boks he is not the best at he moment sorry to say

— END OF THREAD —

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