sharkbok
Captain23,295 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
19 May 2014, 20:52#2
No Goosen must start. We have a World Cup in 2015 and we need to develop his game for then.
Pissing around with the likes of Potgieter and Morning Stain is a waist of time.Potgieter has had his best season ever this year, but in other seasons he was no where Springbok level. He is a journeyman. He is not even a starting player for the Bulls anymore, and rarely has he ever been a starting player. After that donkey that played for the Bulls at the start of the season was dispossed off he got a chance, Fouche or something
We need Goosen to make the position his own with Lambie as the backup.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 May 2014, 20:58#3
Sharkbok be wise - agree with Beeno.Look Goosen is under 21 and I have my doubts about how physically ready he is. At most play him off the bench.I actually think Pollard is looking the part but again under 20s are not ready for test rugby. He could be by next year? Physically imposing flyhalf already 96 kg I think.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 21:06#4
Beeno
With respect Potgieter had some good moments in Super 15 - but ultimately was found wanting and replaced by Pollard. A very limited player - better than Morne - but still not good enough.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 21:38#5
Lambie has shown us nothing at 10....Boshoff is this years Demitri.....Goosen had his best game on Saturday, but the Cheetahs still did better when Watts came on. Pollard is the future....Frans who just won the biggest game of the year is the best option to Morne
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 21:47#6
Mozart
Frans is NOT a flyhalf's arse - or perhaps he is. He was involved in a brilliant move at the start of the Crusaders game - the first time this year - and afterwards became the normal ridiculously poor player he was for the rest of the year.
He did not win the Crusaders game - he nearly lost it because minutes after the Sithole try - he missed a ridiculously poor tackle on Slade. Advantage cancelled out virtually immediately. For the rest his game gradually became worse and worse. Open your eyes for a change.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 22:32#7
He may not be an arse but you are....innocuous Lambie at Bok 10, ser ved bouncing balls by Reinach......you can't be serious.
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
19 May 2014, 22:41#8
Bambie had his turn and on recent form he has not shown any form to make the national side.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 23:20#9
Take a look at Goosen face on in one of these games. His head is almost to the edge of his shoulders. There is almost literally no flat shoulder section. I'm not trying to insult the lad, but without shoulders how the hell do you make a tackle? I guess you take the impact on your extended arm which makes the likelyhood of shoulder injuries or dislocations that much greater. Sound familiar? This kid has a very small frame.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 23:31#10
Mozart
I had a good hard look at the Crusaders game again. Steyn did well in the case of the Sithole try.
He then started a slide down to see whether he could lose the game all on his own.
* He missed the Slade tackle - 7 points given away.
* He had to take a penalty kick 5 meters from the goal line near the middle of the field and found touch 17 meters out - a gain of all of 12 meters.
* A charged down kick - saved by Jordaan when he got hold of the ball and kicked it upfield.
All the above in the first half - now for the second half.
* He missed a penalty kick at goal - after Jordaan made a turnover,
* He missed to find touch with a penalty in the Sharks 22 and the whole issue started up with a counter attack by the Crusaders. The Sharks were under serious pressure and it ended up in Alberts yellow card and a penalty conversion by Slade - 3 points given away needlessly.
* Further penalty as a result of the Sharks having to scrum with 6 men - another 3 points gone.
Steyn was then replaced at minute 65 - I think by then White have had enough of him.
After the try Steyn slipped up badly and that is a fact.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 23:35#11
Mozart
Just one question after your personal BS about Goosen's shoulders 0 he made 7 tackles and missed one in that game.
Now a similar question about Steyn - with his fat belly - how the hell does he make tackles? He made 6 on Saturday and missed 3.
So I think the shoulders beat the belly in this case.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 23:41#12
Well you missed two defenders beaten after the first move, a crucial conversion from touch, heavy tackles made , the effort he put into scrums and at least two balls stolen on the ground. I guess you just see what you want to see.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 23:55#13
Mozart
The effort Steyn made in scrums? What a joke - the one scrum he tried to take the loosie role - he was not binding properly and made no contribution whatsoever, the scrum went into retreat and resulted in a converted penalty for the Crusaders. I did not want to mention that one - it was not directly his fault. He just did nothing to help issues.
He made 6 tackles and missed 3 - none of them particularly heavy and he gained one turnover. OK - the tackles were plus-factors - the missed tackles minus factors. An overall missed tackle ratio of 33% is not acceptable. The one ball turnover is a positive. And he was responsible for 4 possession losses as well. On balance he was brilliant in that first attack and then went into serious decline with negatives far outweighing positives.
I saw everything and accept when players play well and write honestly when they don't.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 00:07#14
Anybody who has played the game would recognize the morale building impact on the pack....when a flyhalf goes in to scrum. The tackles were heavy in several cases, I noticed two turnovers gained. The kick from 40 metres before the half was also huge. Frans manned up hugely in that game and was a big part of not giving up. Rugby guys can see that.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2014, 00:14#15
Mozart
Please - I want a lesson in flowery language from you - you use it so eloquently to cover up bugger-ups.
20 May 2014, 00:15#16
Beeno, I agree. Goosen is the consensus best long term prospect at flyhalf. Has all the tools. It is a fact though that he is young, injury-prone (thrown to the wolves too early?), and has been playing through pain thi s year coming off two major consecutive injuries. Test rugby is a step up in physicality. Another injury could easily be career ending and do tremendous damage to his psyche - one that had him gun shy at the beginning of this year. It is certainly not in the best interests of the player or the Boks long-term (with a view towards the WC) for him to be starting right now. If he is to be properly managed I wouldn't play him in the June series, let him rest and work with the team. See out the Super 15, no Currie Cup, play off the bench in the RC and maybe start a couple in EOYT.
I dare say if he was being managed by the AB's it may be an even more conservative approach.
We have more than enough capable flyhalves to fill in the interim and playing them will only serve to create depth. The "win now at all costs" mentality has to be forgotten.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 01:40#19
Much was made of Goosen running to the line in this game. He was a little flatter, but tended to pass just before contact. That put his centres under quite a bit of pressure. Getting flat ball only works if you can commit the defense and pop the ball into gaps. Otherwise it's a bit of a train wreck. There is no substitute for beating the tackle or offloading out of the tackle.
20 May 2014, 01:43#20
Drotske isn't the best coach in the world, he get's things wrong quite often. If you actually watch the game you'll see Goosen stepped into first receiver just as much as Watt's. I counted 3 offloads by Goosen. Questioning his attacking ability is one of the most stupid things I've read, it's what he is well regarded for and for good reason.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 01:46#21
Well it's just a point of view Shezza but it happens to be from his coach.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 May 2014, 02:16#22
Beenkop, stick to picking grapes.......Goosen walks the Bok 10 spot......I noted how much Goosen has muscled up........he needed to.......good on him.
Goosen to start, with Lambie on the bench........Frans to cover if need be.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 04:14#23
Frans to start....Morne as cover. I feel better already.
