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FORUM / RUGBY /  Springbok selection - the age problem

Springbok selection - the age problem

Started by clevermike11 REPLIES299 VIEWS· 20 Jun 2016, 16:15
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jun 2016, 16:15
#1
20 Jun 2016, 16:15#1

There are a number of lessons to be learnt from the AB's when it comes to team selection.  Hansen does not look at age as a factor in selection - he places an emphasis on experience but there is a serious negative borne in mind by him - experience without performance counts for nothing.  In the WC last year Hansen selected a top class squad based on performance and not anything else.   Experience was a valuable addition - age did not count.  

So lets look at the present Springbok squad and especially the more experienced players – ie the over 28 category:-

Lwazi Mvovo – atrocious failure

JP Pieteren – serious failure

Duane Vermeulen – serious failure

Francois Louw – serious failure

Adriaan Strauss – serious failure

That means a high failure rate in the starting line-up of one-third of the players.  If they were the only failures that could perhaps be off-set by other players.  But the team has to contend with other sub—standard players as well, the foremost of which are Mapoe, Jantjies and Kolisi. 

There remains only one ultimate criterium for selection – namely performance.   We are in the process of team building and the above is not a good foundation to build on.    If Player fail in performance they must find other candidates to ultimately in 18 months time come up with the key components for the 2019 WC.      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jun 2016, 17:22
#2
20 Jun 2016, 17:22#2
 Allende 140 minutes.....serious failure. By your standards we should have brought on a sub.
Allende last 20 minutes....important contributions.
Performance in non test matches is an inaccurate guide to ultimate test success. There are many, many players who look great in Super rugby and flop in tests, no need to list them here.
Sound selection combines an assessment of form and test suitability.....and projects players  into a test setting. Many players fail that projection....Kolbe for example. It also recognizes that mature players often save their best for tests vs routine super rugby.
Basing selection purely on Super form is folly....gullible stuff.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Jun 2016, 17:25
#3
20 Jun 2016, 17:25#3

Yep the old boys in the side are the flops.....we have far better youngsters


The biggest flop was 30 year old Mvovo, closely followed by Louw and Vermeulen


Strauss has been average as has Beast  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jun 2016, 17:27
#4
20 Jun 2016, 17:27#4
 Balls - players who save the best are inadequate in tests as well.  Why mention De Allende in this case and not other players as well empty head?   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jun 2016, 17:33
#5
20 Jun 2016, 17:33#5
 I mention Allende because it perfectly refutes your theory of selecting based only on form. You are just too stupid to twig the contradiction.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
20 Jun 2016, 17:52
#6
20 Jun 2016, 17:52#6
 Vermeulen was a powerhouse before he left for Europe. 
That's what ... a year ago?
Now you've written him off as a hasbeen?
Well not me ... I still rate him as a class act ... and believe he can still contribute to SA rugby ... at the highest level.


 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Jun 2016, 18:09
#7
20 Jun 2016, 18:09#7
He was poor in the WC, been worse for Toulon......so chances are at 30ish he might be past his best.....time will tell  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jun 2016, 21:34
#8
20 Jun 2016, 21:34#8
 De Allende was injured for most of Super 15 and it set him back - but he is as ws proven on Saturday working his way back and is not at a stage where he is too poor for selection.   But Mozart is in the habit f being unable to follow games and all he alwatys harp on the negatives of players he dislikes and praising those he likes based on a single incident in a match or even a season.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jun 2016, 01:47
#9
21 Jun 2016, 01:47#9
 It's pitifully stupid.....the best 8th man in the world 18 months ago is playing with a niggle and has an ordinary game and is written off. But we are constantly lectured about how Coenie a serial failure....needs another chance.
As for you Tokkie you keep making my point again and again....Allende proves you can't simply eliminate guys based on form in a few games. Form is important and the lack of it a concern....but it's an imperfect guide. Kolisi won the MOM award in his last game before the tests.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Jun 2016, 06:00
#10
21 Jun 2016, 06:00#10
 Mozart - Vermeulen last year had a serious neck injury and was off for months.  He came back during the WCC and if you look at his overall performances he was way below what he used to achieve.   I looked at a number of games he played for Toulon and was definitely sub-standard.  Every real rugby lover would love to see him performing like he did prior to his injury - but he has to start performing on lower level - he cannot play himself back to form in tests.   As long as he does not perform - he should not be selected.   
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
21 Jun 2016, 06:55
#11
21 Jun 2016, 06:55#11
I'm not taking sides but rather an observation of my own.Dave, I like (liked) De Allende BUT as pointed out by many he is a shadow of what we have seen previously. One of Damian's weaknesses has always been his defence and the previous two tests he has been partic ularly weak in that area.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Jun 2016, 08:42
#12
21 Jun 2016, 08:42#12
 Mozart explain to me how players who fail in the lower levels of rugby - save themselves for test rugby.   Give names please of the flops who prodded on in Super Rugby suddenly becomes test players of quality.   Granted their are top Super 15 players - but who were the failures on test level - they just could not make the step up, but the real top class Super Rugby performers have been ignored in the past or given one test or bench selection and then dropped to continue with seriously defective players  - that was virtually always the case.   Secondly how do you forecast whether a poor Super Rugby player - especially the mature players who are supposed to be leaders in their lower level teams - "often save their best for tests vs routine super rugby".   Since it is not a tested hypothesis it seems to me that is an excuse to select under-performers and then expect miracles from them in test rugby.   
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