29 Aug 2015, 10:43#2
Selective look assessment of outliers, as to be expected.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 12:51#3
Ceradunce
The above reflects the ages of all the individual players on the squad and there is nothing selective about it. The only selective issue is the fact that Mozart wrote that the average age of WC winning teams have been 27 years of age. The rest is factual - also the fact that the younger players have not been exposed to test rugby - with most of them - other than Etzebeth and to a much lesser degree Lambie - only in the main being bench players.
You are always BSting - so tell me what is sel ective about the above.
29 Aug 2015, 13:43#4
You are not even getting the point, ou Tokkie. Let me try to explain the idea of "selective assessment of outliers", not that it is of any use because you just do not understand the term "outliers". I have tried to explain it to you before and you chose not to understand it then and you will probably chose not to understand it this time around either.
In any case, just like with any other stats, you choose when to take an outlier into account when it suits your "theory" and you choose to ignore it when it suits your argument.
In this case you chose to ignore an outlier in one part of your argument and you choose to take into account another outlier in another part of your argument.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 14:25#5
Let me explain to you - dunce - outliers have nothing to do with this case. You are talking our normal BS to try and hide the truth and factual info provided.
29 Aug 2015, 14:57#6
You have just exposed yourself badly ou balsak. Just as I expected. You do not understand outliers....... and that is the bottom line.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Aug 2015, 15:05#7
Mike some good research there which support your argument. Ou matfield is the biggest joke and sadly the joke is on us.nevermind ou cerudunce windpomp he is a master outliar hahahahahahhahahaha I said but I didnt say. Bit like watching a chameleon moving forward. Bwahahahahhaha
Windpomp if you have anything of substance to say please say it!
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 Aug 2015, 15:26#8
Beeno: my good fiend, please spare yourself further embarrassment & go to the public library for two books: statistics 101 & rugby 101.
JW providing help to those in dire need
29 Aug 2015, 15:53#10
Moz, I also got the average age at 28.225 but was just not interested in trying to get that through to ou Tokkie. He is having enough issues with the outliers as it is.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 16:35#12
Balls
You are lying again - the age of 27,2 was given by you - not by me. However, you are talking crap again - we will see what happens when the actual teams are selected to play in games and especially in the play-off stage. If some of the younger players are let out of the match day 23 - the age will go up drastically.
Problem is that you are trying to justify the selection of the non-performing players and we will see what happens when y\we lose in the quarter-finals. Ceradunce have crept up your ass to the extent that you will not be able to have a tonsils operation - his head will be in the way.
So enjoy the ass-creeping.
sharkbok
Captain23,282 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
29 Aug 2015, 16:36#13
Given their has only been like 6 world cups the data might not even be of statistical significance.
Maybe after 20-30 world cups, an average age of the winning teams would be more reliable as a benchmark.
Also their is some luck involved when selecting the best available players.
Some players may be past their best (after 2-3 world cups) but still better than younger alternatives.
Jake White inherited a young team with players who were better than the older alternatives- but some of the players were not even at their peak when winning the world cup in 2007.
The 2009-10 team was probably better than the 2007 Bok team as the star players were in their prime.
Meyer would have preferred to have gotten the job in 2008 with the Bok legends at their best.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 16:41#14
Actually on average a very young team if you don't use Victor's age. :-)
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 17:03#15
DB
With 14 of the players being over the age of 30 it hardly can be called a young team.
SB
Are you serious with the following statement:-
"Some players may be past their best (after 3-4 world cups) but still better than younger alternatives."
You want to tell me Alberts is better than a dozen younger 7's in rugby. He was shit poor for three years now and what makes him better? Du Preez has not played any real rugby for 14 months and his last tests hye was bog ordinary - how do you know he is better than younger contenders? De Villiers was bog ordinary in 2014 before his injury and has shown zilch since his return to rugby - is he still better than the younger players? Matfield having destroyed the functioning of our Tight 5 and having no grunt still better than the younger contenders?
I can go on and name the other over-the-hill players and would like to know how you manage to make a statement like I highlighted above.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 19:02#17
So lets get this straight. What is wrong with referring to the very limited caps of the younger players - doffies? The only players with substantial game time in the squad is Etzebeth and Lambie - the average of the other 8 is just about 8 tests per player. You are talking crap to get away from facts. But then you are normally deceptive and in this case normally so.
sharkbok
Captain23,282 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
29 Aug 2015, 19:29#18
Clevermike, I think Dupreez was playing well in the game that he got injured in.
Also Dupreez is perhaps our best scrumhalf in the professional era- maybe better than Joost. He is a Springbok great- which I just don't see alternatives like Hougaard or Reinach who are merely placeholders until their is a new younger scrumhalf that is better.
While I don't know how well he is going to play- but I believe it is going to be better than alternatives that we have. I dont think that Reinach or Hougaard are international standard scrum halves in all conditions as both are more suited for an open game on a fast hard pitch
Dupreez pass is better than Reinach or Hougaard, and so is his kicking game. This gives him more options. Dupreez is a general that takes the right options more times than not.
For that matter, how can you be sure that the younger alternatives are better? Or that their is a magic age formulae that does not factor in that some era's just have better players to select from- either in their primes or even past their primes. (like the 2009 Springbok team)
Are the younger players even international standard scrumhalf's- when compared to the top 5 international test teams.
-Think Hougaard kicking the ball out straight into touch on a free kick and gaining 10 metres (wales test). When Hougaard came on it was game over.
-Or the Hougaard pass to Lood Foot that allowed the Newzealand flyhalf to bump in to touch- allowing the All Blacks to close the game off.
-Or Hougaard on a wet pitch fumbling the ball and generally looking like a wing playing at scrumhalf.
When Hougaard came onto the pitch when Dupreez was injured- it was clear the decision making and option taking was far more limited.
If your scrumhalf is not taking the right options, it has a massive effect on the overall team performance abd confidence.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Aug 2015, 20:17#20
Cerudunce outliar windpomp best accept Mike has this one wrapped up. This is an older Bok squad. The pick of never has been ou wee victor 105 kg is a total disgrace. Then to slag off Du Toit suggesting the pathetic matfield is better is ludicrous the opinion of lunatics.
Our locks should have been, Eben, Loodt, Steph and Willemse. No need for the show pony unless its to carry the baggage! But keep him out of team talks as his coaching abilities thus far have also been frot as was his captaincy of the bulle. His groupies are hard pressed to find a single area of merit as even his lineout work is vastly overhyped!
Its hilarious having to deal with these lunatics!
29 Aug 2015, 20:55#21
Beeno giving ou Tokkie a hell of a go at firing blanks.
sharkbok
Captain23,282 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
30 Aug 2015, 01:00#22
We could find correlation of performance in other factors than age.
The 2003 World Cup was the worst ever Bok team.
This could have been explained by being over trained at Camp Staalstraat- or the players available at the time were just not good enough to win the world cup.Or the coach and gameplan, etc, etc
DEDenny
Captain12,893 posts
30 Aug 2015, 01:13#23
Did you have to revoke horrors of the clueless Rudolph? Fook it, I have a two shts higher opinion of Snor than of Rudolph.....one such memory is of him playing Lou is Koen and Braam Van Straaten side by side! Naah poor selection of players coupled to a zero gameplan.
ABABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
30 Aug 2015, 02:21#24
@ceradyne,
reading your posts made me throw up,..... what an arrogant pr¡ ck you are!!!!!!!!
who do you think you are to speak with that f*cking superiority?
the outliers????? f*ck the outliers!
I don't know what an outlier is and I don't give a sh¡t! if you are not agree with what mike says refute what he says but don't come with that arrogant sh¡t
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2015, 03:19#25
You sure it wasn't your face in the mirror that induced the nausea?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2015, 03:40#26
SB
Neither you nor I know what Du Preez is going to be able to do AT PRESENT insofar as performances js concerned. He was good in the past - but at the age of 33 after a 14 month absence in playing rugby - is he still going to produce the goods? You do not know - neither do I.
I do not think Du Preez was all that wonderful in the tests in June last year - he was more or less adequate at best. He was slower than he used to be and his personal attacking play vanished from sight altogether. Not being match-fit I doubt whether he is going to be fit enough to last through the RWC - his latest injuries all stem from chronic unfitness and I suspect that is still the case. His Boepie is not going to help in that regard and he has developed one according to recent pics.
However, Du Preez is not the only player involved here in terms of your general statement. What about the others?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2015, 03:43#27
ABF
Forget about what Mozart and Ceradunce come up with here. When they are trumped they come up with meaningless phraseology to hide their own BS arguments. Outliers is just one, process tackles being another.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2015, 03:45#28
Here's another....enjoy your egg.
Graphic: Average age and caps of Rugby World Cup winning teams and how England might compare in 2015
Graphic shows the average age and total caps of previous World Cup winners and how Paul Hayward's prospective England XV might compare when they host the next World Cup were they to play the expected number of Tests between now and 2015.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2015, 03:59#29
Mozart
No egg - the egg will be on your face when we are out of the WC early. You do not recognize the basic fact - age is not important when coupled to top class performance. However, there is no evidence that the elderly players in Meyer's squad actually can be accused of being top class performers - matter of fact most of them are seriously defective in the performance stakes.
You refuse to recognize that fact and Meyer does regard reputation ahead of anything else and disregards performance completely - so we are going to struggle badly in the upcoming WC.
Start thinking of excuses for early departure from the tournament - that is going to happen with thats quad in any event.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2015, 04:11#30
Now you are changing the subject. Your contention is the Boks are too old at 28.225, correctly calculated not Perv calculated. But the ABs were 28 when they won according to the Telegraph. Disproves your whole argument....again.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2015, 04:26#31
Mozart
Balls as per normal. See what started this thread off"=
"Mozart has been carrying on about the average age of WC winning teams - so I did an evaluation of the announced squad and found the following:"
No - it does not disprove anything at all. My contention always was that age is not important when coupled to actual top class performance. Your argument never included top class performance as a requirement. That is where you lost tract of reality and where we will be undone in this case.
sharkbok
Captain23,282 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
30 Aug 2015, 04:57#32
What is the average age of a test team compared to a world cup winning team?
And what is the average age of the teams that lost at the World Cup.
It may just be that 27 is the average age of any test playing country.
Most teams will have a mix of young, older and medium players at any given time. This would round up to the medium age of a test rugby player?
BObobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BObobbok...Captain10,129 posts
30 Aug 2015, 05:22#33
Definition of outliers, An outlier is an observation that lies an abnormal distance from other values in a random sample from a population.
Angry ABfan, f.y.i.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2015, 05:48#34
So Perv you claim age is not a factor, but you start a thread incorrectly calculating and bemoaning the age of the team. Face it, you don't know if you are Arthur or Martha.
30 Aug 2015, 08:52#35
Wow ... nearly 50% of the squad is over 30.
We have 30% of the squad injured.
Some of our front line players haven't had any game time this season because of broken down bodies.
Our Captain still has his jaw wired up.
This looks more like the ICU at an old age home.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!
Well at least Meyer's confident they're all ready to go out and do us proud.
I wonder ... do you think the IRB will allow some of the more senior boys to take their hearing aids onto the pitch??
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2015, 09:39#36
Mozart is doing the cat on a hot tin roof act again. Diverting attention away from reality by making a personal attack again. He cannot dispute the fact that most of the older players are not really performing well at all - so he is diverting attention away from the factual situation.
The same apply unfortunately to SB - he made a sweeping statement about the older players being better than the younger ones and then when challenged wrote a whole passage about Du Preez and ignored the rest completely. All this story about being a Springbok Great and based on past history does not wash - same with the rest of the elderly and the sickly.
30 Aug 2015, 10:27#37
It's not logical to sing the praises of the out of form elderly.
Mozart isn't doing it for the reason he says he is.
He's finds it hard to accept that his innings as a contributor to society is over. He's afraid of becoming old ... of not being able to compete with the younger, stronger generation.
A little birdie told me that he refused the aid of a young man who offered to help him across the street ... and subsequently nearly got himself run over by a bus.
That's pride for you.
Foolishness.
Nothing wrong with becoming old. It's all a part of life.
