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Springbok Squad to be announced on Saturday

Started by clevermike32 REPLIES466 VIEWS· 29 May 2014, 23:49
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2014, 23:49
#1
29 May 2014, 23:49#1

Lets look at the different positions and see what we come up with insofar as potential selections are concerned.  


Position 15 - Incumbent Willie le Roux


There is very little competition here for Le Roux.   Mvovo was tried out by the Sharks and showed initial promise = but in the end was not a major success story so he is back on the wing.   Jaco Taute stared off the year badly - but in recent games he had show considerable improvement. Marnitz Boshoff played one game at full back and the rest at flyhalf.  He is a very good full back - but I do not think he is actually a serious consideration.  Visser also showed some problems  but cannot be a serious consideration.  The only foreign-based player of substance is Kirchner - but I think he is not even a remote consideration.


Selectability


1   Willie le Roux

2   Jaco Taute

3.  Marnitz Bshoff

4   Lwazi Mvovo


The obvious choice here is Willie le Roux


Position 14 - JP Pietersen


Although there are signs that Pietersen has lost some pace playing in Japan the only real competition is from the Lwazi Mvovo and Damian de Allende.  There is no real contenders - even from players playing for foreign clubs.


Selectability


1   JP Pietersen 

2   Lwazui Mvovo

3   Damian de Allende


The obvious choice here is JP Pietersen 


Position 13 - Incumbent Jacque Fourie


Fourie has a long term injury and is not available for the June series and the RC,  He was sound in defense - but he has a serious pace problem and is a nonentity in attacking play.  The second choice has been JJ Engelbrecht - but although he has shown improvement in defense in Super 15 he has a serious deficiency in attacking play.   Juan de Jongh showed some promise this year especially when he was put into space by other players.   His problem is that he cannot impose himself and create space for others.   He has an extremely serious problem in defense and cannot be a serious consideration.   Johann Sadie developed well this year and even though a clever player he is not a consideration.  Of the 13's playing in Super 15 Paul Jordaan showed the best defensive qualities - but in a malfunctioning Sharks backline were given very few attacking opportunities.


I do not think that Meyer can stomach the selection of JJ Engelbrecht and is trying to find a way out of the present problem by looking at De Allende.  De Allende and Le Roux was by some distance the best SA backline players and although he only played at 12 and 14 - the solution seems to be to play De Allende at 13.


Selectability


1  Damian de Allende

2  Paul Jordaan

3  JJ Engelbrecht

4  Juan de Jongh

5  Johan Sadie   


The likely candidate is Damian de Allende


Position 12 - Incumbent Jean de Villiers


De Villiers is out with an injury and the back up last year was Jan Serfontein.  The latter was good in the games he played.   The best 12 for any SA team this year was De Allende - so he must certainly be s consideration.   Much noise is generally generated about Francois Steyn - but he is playing with an injury and it is extremely unlikely that he would be selected since his center performances in itself this year was sub-par.  The other players that could come into consideration is Jordaan and Ebersohn.



Selectability


1  Damian de Allende

2  Jan Serfontein

3  Paul Jordaan

4  Francois Steyn


The best choice here is De Allende - but I think that it is likely that he would play at 13 and the likely selection is Jan Serfontein  

   

 Position  11 - Incumbent Bryan Habana


Habana was out for a while with an arm injury - but in recent matches for Toulon he did quite well.   There is a host of other players that can come into the picture - eg De Allende, Bjorn Basson, JJ Engelberecht and Paul Jordaan - but that would happen only if Habana is not available.


Selectability


1  Bryan Habana

2  Damian de Allende

3  Paul Jordaan

4  JJ Engelbrecht

5  Bjorn Basson


The obvious choice here is Bryan Habana


Number 10 - Incumbent Morne Steyn

  

After a very poor performance at  the Ellis Park Park test Steyn was retained for the EOYT tests.  He was very average during the tests and was by then already playing for Stade Francais.  He struggled badly to really establish himself at Stade Francais as their first choice flyhalf and was on their bench in most matches the Club played.   He consequently had very little game time this year.   The second choice flyhalf last year was Lambie - but he is out with an injury as well.  Goosen was not available last year - went on the EOYT with the Springboks - but was never used during the tour. Francois Steyn played a few matches at flyhalf for the Sharks because of the Lambie injury - but although there was one moment of brilliance against the Crusaders on the whole he was at best average in performance - a fact that was probably influenced by a persistent knee problem, which probably lead to a malfunctioning Sharks backline.


Selectability


1  Johan Goosen

2  Marnitz Boshoff

3  Morne Steyn 

4  Francois Steyn


The likely candidate is Johan Goosen


Position 9 - Incumbent Ruan Pienaar


Fourie du Preez went back to Japan during the EOYT and Pienaar consequently inherited the incumbency.   There is a major problem here - both Du Preez and Pienaar is playing for foreign clubs - but is in the final stage of their careers.  Du Preez is already 32 years of age and Pienaar is 30 years old.   There  were last year serious signs of decreased capacity already and the selection of either would be a wild guess as to performance this year.


However, there are various other younger scrummies that would not let the team down.   Among them are Rory Cockott.  Francois Hougaard and Cobus Reinach


Selectability


1  Fourie du Preez

2  Rory Cockott

3  Francois Hougaard 

4  Ruan Pienaar

5  Cobus Reinach

6  Faf de Klerk


The likely candidate is Fourie du Preez even though a sharp lokout is necessary to see whether he is still a real candidate in the longer term 


Position 8 -  Incumbent Duane Vermeulen


Vermeulen has been playing throughout the Super 15 season and has been in top form.   Another player in that position that showed good form is Philip van der Walt.  Warren Whtiteley is really a top class player and has been one of the finds of the season,  Kankowski earlier in the season started at 8 but he is now used from the bench since he apparently suffer from "Japanese disease" - ie under-performance by most players playing club rugby in Japan.  Other players that has recently been utilized as 8's as stop gaps included Willem Alberts and Boom Prinsloo - but both for different reasons are stop gap players in the number 8 position and cannot be serious contenders for Springbok selection.   The third really top potential number 8 us Arno Botha - but he is suffering from a long term injury.  Van der Walt should be back for the RC though. 


Selectability


1  Duane Vermeulen

2  Warren Whiteley

2  Philip van der Walt

3  Boom Prinsloo

4  Willem Albers


The likely candidate is Duane Vermeulen


No 7  -  Incumbent Willem Alberts


There are two diverse opinions on Alberts as a player in the no 7 position.  The one group claims he is a major ball carrier and tackler - making him irreplaceable as a player.    Th other opinion is that he has limited capacity and is inactive too much during games and is too slow for the position - resulting in his inability to play a role in breakdown situations.   Here again their are people who says he is indespensible in NH conditions and those who believe he is not speedy enough to make a positive impact in SH conditions.


The other outstanding no 7 this season has been Schalk Burger.   He is the best all-round no 7 in South Africa - but he has a major problem - he is injury prone and has been out of the game too frequently to be a proposition for selection.


Jacques du Plessis has shown some real class this year - he is a better version than Alberts of the tight 5 type of loosie popular in SA.  He is rather slow in pace  with a tendency not to pass balls and crashball all the times.  Speedier than Alberts and starting off in his career he is a better prospect than the 30 year old Alberts - but in the main he remains a lock used as a flank forward.


The two other outstanding 7's are Arno Botha and Lappies Labuschagne - but the one is out with a long term injury and the other has not played rugby for the past four weeks as a result of a groin injury.  A number of stop gap players have been used to cover for injured players but none of them are real contenders for selection.  


Another potential candidate is Juan Smith.  He has just had a very good game in the Heineken Cup final and was generally a good performer in the Top 14 games he played for Toulon this year.   The only real problem with him is that age is not on his side - he will be 33 years old in July 2014

             

Selectability


1  Schak Burger

2  Juan Smith 

3  Pieter Labuscagne (for the RC) 

4  Willem Albers


Despite his deficiencies the likely candidate is Willem Alberts since Meyer apparently favours the idea of a tight 5 type of 7.


No 6 - Incumbent Francois Louw


Francois Louw was out with an injury and only recently returned to play for Bath.   He has leadership qualities - is the captain of Bath - and is a top team player.  Fairly slow for a loosie but probably the best available 6.


Players that have shown top quality in Super 15 this year have been Marcel Coetzee - more a player in the mold of Louw - and Heinrich Brussow.   Brussow is very good in break down ball recovery - but he has a tendency to be penalized and that is why Meyer has never been very keen on him.  A lesser candidate is Nizaam Carr - a very active player - but an unlikely player on international level.


Selectability


1  Francois Louw

2  Marcel Coetzee 

3  Heinrich Brussow

4  Nizaam Carr       


The likely candidate is Francois Louw


No 5 -  Incumbent Flip van der Merwe


After being around for years Van der Mwere performed very well for the Springboks in 2013.   He also did well for the Bulls this year - but was ultimately moved yo 4 to cater for the inclusion of Victor Matfield in the Bulls team.   


There is real controversy around Victor Matfield.  He is more a New Zeakand type of lock bar the fact that he is also a very good line out jumper.   Being rather light weight for a lock he is easily helped in jumping by tight 5 players.   Other than in line outs and in looser play he is seriously deficient in other facets of tight 5 play and already being 37 years of age - he is obviously a short term prospect whose selection would not add value to longer term interests of SA rugby.   He is a favourite of Meyer though - and that might clinch his short term selection.


Other players who have done well in Super 15 this year were Stephan Lewies and Michael Rhodes.   Both are extremely promising and the return to the game of Pieter-Steoh du Toit would make for  bright future insofar as no 5 players are concerned. 


Selectability


1  Flip ban der Merwe

2  Stephan Lewies

3  Michaek Rhodes

4  Victor Matfield       


Although Meyer may be inclined to select Matield  because of past close relationship - the likely candidate is Flip van der Merwe.


No 4  - Incumbent Eben Etzebeth


Etzebeth has been out injured since November 2013.  he is by far the best no 4 in Workd Rugby - but he will most likely given further recovery time and not be selected for the June tests.


Bakkies Botha is another Meyer favourite from bygone years.   He was selected to play in the Scotland tests and came of the bench in the French test in November last year.  He was bog ordinary in both tests and being 35 years old already - he is not really a contender for future selection.  More noticeable for off-ball incidents - he was after a long injury break not very noticeable in recent matches for his Club.   


In the absence of Etzebeth Lood de Jager was the outstanding no 4 performer this year and one to watch out for the future is Paul Willense.


 Selectability


1  Eben Etzebeth (for the RC)

2  Lood de Jager

3  Paul Willenmse

4  Ruan Botha      

5  Bakkies Botha        


Meyer is not an adventurous selector of players and it would indeed be surprising if he makes a selection based on the future.    Based on performance this year the player who in the absence if Etzebeth for selection is Lood de Jager, but it is unlikely that he would be selected.


No 3  -  Incumbent Coenie Oosthuizen


Since both Malherbe and Jannie du Plessis was injured and not available Coenie Oosthuizen was selected to play in the French test last year.  Oosthuizen is a very good all-round player - but there are question marks about his continuous problems with a neck injury.   After a longish absence from the Cheetahs - he came back recently and his scrumming was seriously problematic.


Jannie du Plessis is a solid scrummer but outside of scrumming he is a real nightmare.  He gives away penalties like it is unbelievable and in his last two matches picked up a yellow card in each of the matches.  Already on the wrong side of 30 - there are serious question marks whether he should be a future contender.


The other tighthead that showed some real promise is Marcel van der Merwe - but he only had three full matches for the Bulls this year and was in the main their bench tighthead - someone to watch out for the future.   


Selectability


1  Frans Malherbe

2  Coenie Oosthuizen

3  Marcel van der Merwe

4  Jannie du Plessis  


In view of the fact that as a result of concussion Malherbe may not be selected for the 7 June match - but as one of Meyer's favourite players is likely to feature in the in the other tests.  The probable choice for the 7 June match is Jannie du Plessis but if he repeats what he did in his last two matches it will be his last throw of the dice.


No 2 - Incumbent Bismarck du Plessis


The two best hookers in worl d rugby at present is Bismarck du Plessis and Adriaan Strauss.  Strauss cannot be considered for the June tests and that is the end of his story.   

          

Selectability


1  Bismarck du Plessis

2  Adriaan Strauss


The only logical choice is Bismarck du Plessis.


No 1 - Incumbent Tendai Mtawarire


There can be no doubt that the onl lofical selection is the Beast - but with the injury to Kitshoff - we are very shallow here.


The only logical choice is Tendai Mtawarire.

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 00:27
#2
30 May 2014, 00:27#2
A "hard ask? No an "imagined" ask. Nobody asked you, who needs to read the same pig headed bias  again. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 01:35
#3
30 May 2014, 01:35#3
 There was no bias above - only real facts - and I won't ask you for permission to wrrite something on this site.   If anybody differ from the garbage you normally write then that person is biased - a scrumbag  etc. 
But lets be fair -  what written above shows any bias?       
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 02:20
#4
30 May 2014, 02:20#4
No somebody is a scumbag if he talks about de Jongh's birth in a disgusting way. That's low class and completely unacceptable on this site. 
As for bias. If you write the same things over and over again and can't be moved by contrary events....you are biased. Everything above you have pretty much said before. So here's a challenge ....what's new ....huh?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 04:06
#5
30 May 2014, 04:06#5
Repeating a joke that has been in circulation and started by comedians in the US nearly a century ago is suddenly not funny because it was applied in the case of one of your saints and suddenly a person is a scumbag.  How immature can you get? 
So you did not agree with the summary because it makes some of your selections inappropriate and suddenly it is bias.   And you never repeat anything?   You have even invented nicknames like Steppie for players and your repeated falsehoods to discredit some players is really what is biased.   
I am so biased - I look at performances and then make a deduction.   White said Steyn is playing with a knee injury and that showed his positive spirit and sense of responsibility.  I did not dispute that  but when I said it may have impacted on the game itself and may be an explanation why Sharks backline as a whole misfiired  - about which a number of articles have been written by commentators - and suddenly I am biased.   I even went so far as to say that it could explain the negatives as indicated in the match stats of Steyn throughout the series - and there were negatives - even though you constantly refuse to recognize it.   White himself said that Meyer may not select a player who does not train with the team on Mondays and Tuesdays.   I deduced that his absence from training may have a negative impact on the players playing around him - since they cannot train in fir instance improving their ball handling iskills without Steyn being involved - and suddenly I am biased.   
What is evident is that you are so biased in favour of some players that any deductions that is unfavourable to those players show bias against them - while you can carry on with extremely biased comments without any factual or statistical  base at all.   Ever heard about the  age-old idiom - those who stay in glass houses should not throw stones?
               
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 06:03
#6
30 May 2014, 06:03#6
Yap, yap, yap .......same old refrain.....nothing new from this tired old dog.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 06:48
#7
30 May 2014, 06:48#7
 I have updated my views on the selection of players by inclusing the forwards.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 06:51
#8
30 May 2014, 06:51#8
 Mozart
Message from the scum, and the dog :  You remain a rugby illiterate = very little understanding of the game without any ability to see the wider implications of issues.   

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 12:04
#9
30 May 2014, 12:04#9
 Fair comments Mike and mostly correct thanks for the great summary.Visser is a possibilty at 15
Hendricks as a wing
Sarel as a scrummiePotgieter as a flyhalf. Forget about Rhodes and wee matfield. Lewies not ready yet.
Unless Coenie can scrum he will need to be left out.
Looseheads Add in Kitshoff. He is the deal and getting better each year. The Lions props deser ve some credit.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 12:05
#10
30 May 2014, 12:05#10
Appeal to Moz and Mike not to get too bitter. We are here to have some fun and a good laugh and talk some rugby etc.
Thanks
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 15:11
#11
30 May 2014, 15:11#11
 Beeno
I dd not look specifically at the loose head situation since I think the second choice will have to be Kitshoff and he is out with an injury.   The Lions props are also good scrummagers - but not in other phases of the game and it is possible that they may feature in future.   Nyakane is not a starter and I think he will end up on the Bench. 
Visser is very low down in the order and cannot be considered at this stage.
Matfield should rightly be forgotten about - but will Meyer forget about him???
I d not think that Sarel Pretorius is a real contender.  Mercurial he definitely is - but his service is often enough not what it should be.  At 29 he is also closing in on his career twilight.
   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 16:55
#12
30 May 2014, 16:55#12
HasBeen you don't get bitter at a yapping dog. But nor do you spend much time looking for value in his various growls, yelps and snarls. You accept it's just a yapping dog doing his thing.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 May 2014, 17:42
#13
30 May 2014, 17:42#13
 Agreed Moz, I don't actually have an issue with Mike, but the De Jongh birth reference was a tad over the top. De Jongh is still a better 13 than most of the other SA 13s playing SR. There might be challengers, but no one clearly better.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 May 2014, 17:46
#14
30 May 2014, 17:46#14
de Jongh better than most of the other SA 13's - that's a bloody joke........JJ, Sadie, Mapoe and Sithole are all better 13's than de Jongh
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 May 2014, 18:11
#15
30 May 2014, 18:11#15
 According to you. According to the knowledgeable Sadie might make a case, but for the rest... no. JJ is looking better but still no top test class 13. More like a utility back.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 18:33
#16
30 May 2014, 18:33#16
 Draad some problems with De Jongh are powder puff tackling. I like an international center to be able to hammer them backwards - dominate the collision. De Jongh doesn't do that. Secondly, his distribution is still not good enough. Thirdly he goes awol in games. All one gets is an occassioanl flash of brilliance. 
Sadie is a much better center than de Jongh and uses his head. Distribution is good and he runs good lines. International class centres we have are - Jean, Allende, Jan and Jordaan. Sadie is about there and could thrive in a class backline. 
There are some young guns rising as well but not ready yet. I also rate Watermeyer of the Lions. Sithole needs more time and we will see how he progresses. Van Wyk the Stormers wing is actually more accustomed to playing 13 I hear. Howard was a big loss as it would have been nice to see how he went this season.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 18:52
#17
30 May 2014, 18:52#17
Sadie certainly doesn't hammer them backwards nor does JJ....he helps them forwards mostly. Sithole looks decent but not exceptional. The fact is the Stormers started playing better rugby when de Jongh returned. He is a true centre who understands the position. Juan tackles beyond the advantage line....only Jean and Juan do that among our centres .....most of our...er....observors totally miss the forcing aspect of his defence.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 19:15
#18
30 May 2014, 19:15#18
 another thing about centers one needs to note. Increasingly they are 100 kg types. De Jongh is too small and he should try wing. Benjamin is abetter centre than de Jongh. At least he competes and is quick. Mapoe is too slow. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 May 2014, 19:28
#19
30 May 2014, 19:28#19
 Beeno, I also think De Jongh is too small for top flight test rugby, but there are no real challengers for 13 yet. Sadie looks well and I like him, but he is yet untested. Benjamin ???? He did well as a fit in 12 for the cheaters, but he's no test player. If I had to chose,  De Jongh hands down. Meyer is also not too happy about our prospects at 13, hence his conversion of JJ to 13 and his hinting of moving De Allende to 13. I dont like the idea of trying a player in a different position in a test. That seems to be due to desperation.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 19:56
#20
30 May 2014, 19:56#20
Draad, De Allende can play 12/13 or wing it's no problem for him. No ways must de Jongh come near the Bok test team!!! He has to do a great deal more to convince me. Sadie at 96 kg way before De Jongh. Jordaan before De Jongh. 
De Allende has to make the test side. 



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 20:07
#21
30 May 2014, 20:07#21
 I will be civil about the following statement:-
"He is a true centre who understands the position. Juan tackles beyond the advantage line....only Jean and Juan do that among our centres.....most of our...er....observors totally miss the forcing aspect of his defence."

Ok - I grant you that - we miss the forcing aspects of his - De Jongh's - tackles - De Jongh plain and simple MISS nearly half  of his attempted tackles. 
If I have to make an outside center selection I think the answer in fact lies between Jordaan and De Allende.   Nobody runs over Jordaan - he showed that with the way he handled Nonu l ast Saturday.  Too many players just run past or over De Jongh to feel comfortable with him at center.
De Jongh had been given opportunities to show his ability as a test center in 2012.   He came from the bench in the Aussie test in Pretoria and buggered up an excellent try scoring opportunity completely.   He then played at 13 in the Murrayfield and Twickenham tests.  The first ball passed to him he knocked on and then went AWOL  in both tests.   You needed a magnifying glass to find him on the field of play - he was hiding away so expertly - and that is a fact.   
De Jongh has to have tries and breaks made for him and even then he makes a mess of it at times. His ball possession losses is not good and showed that he really is not a thinking player who can create space for himself and others - while his passing game is not of an acceptable standard as well.   
Beeno is right - he is too small a player to make the grade at 13 - hence the deficient defense so often noticeable  in his play and his inability to break the line himself - making him totally dependent on others to do the work for him.    He certainly is a good finisher - nothing else.   .     


OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
30 May 2014, 20:53
#22
30 May 2014, 20:53#22
Yea, nice forecast - I think you pretty much nailed it with the highlighted players Clever although I see Matfield at 5, Flip at 4 and a Steyn at 10

Scottish test is shaping up as a real opportunity to try some new players. 


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 May 2014, 22:00
#23
30 May 2014, 22:00#23
 Beenz, that would be nice to believe,  but  it remains to be proven. And international level is not the platform for that.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 22:08
#24
30 May 2014, 22:08#24
Growl, snarl, sniff, yelp.....yap, yap, yap. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 22:16
#25
30 May 2014, 22:16#25
Actually I totally agree with Draad. De Jongh is the best technical centre we have. He is never going to be our incumbent 13, and the issue is size. But if there's an open field tackle to be made near our line...neither Jordaan nor JJ go low...I'd rely on Juan whose test tackling stats are excellent.
De Allende is an interesting prospect. But we should note he only tackles in the mid eighties himself....and has about two or three good games at centre on his CV. Against Oz and NZ that inexperience will be exploited. 
Little has been said about Serfontein who was easily beaten for a try by Speith. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 May 2014, 22:29
#26
30 May 2014, 22:29#26
 Exactly. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 23:01
#27
30 May 2014, 23:01#27
 Mozart
De Jongh as effective as Jordaan - not a chance.   Have you missed the tackles made by Jordaan of Nonu and the fact Nonu lost ball possession twice when tackled by Jordaan.   Those were effective tackles - am afraid De Jongh would not have been able to be as effective as that.   He is not strong enough to do that.
Who do you want at center?   Steyn was very poor at center this year - no penetration, no line breaks and the only 12 in any SA franchise who has not scored a try.  If you do not believe me go and study his stats in that position.   
Engelbrecht is a no-no.  DE Allende's defence stats is miles better than those of Steyn in any event.  At least he knows how to make line breaks as well as score and create tries and do so regularly.  Who else is there De Villiers and Fourie being absent and Francois has a problematic knee, which - even though you don't want to accept as such - limits his usability.  That leaves us with only two candidates - Serfontein and De Allende - not so?
 
 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 23:20
#28
30 May 2014, 23:20#28
Not so.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2014, 23:33
#29
30 May 2014, 23:33#29
 Who else do you have in mind?  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 May 2014, 01:57
#30
31 May 2014, 01:57#30
Well if you were a coach you might be concerned starting a combination of two players without test experience. Yes I know Serf was pressed into duty at Eliis P. and played a bit off the bench...but he is a complete rookie. 
So you might play:
1 Serf and JJ which gives you one guy who has some tests, and they know each other.
2 Or you might play Frans and De Allende, assuming of course Frans doesn't play 10.
3 Then there's de Allende and De Jongh....with similar advantages to 1.
4 Of course there is Frans and Jordaan ...again similar to 1. 
5 Finally you can play Sadie at 13, but he has no natural experienced partner...so I doubt he will be chosen.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 May 2014, 06:13
#31
31 May 2014, 06:13#31
 Frans is no answer at 12 - even his experience does not eliminate the fact that in 2012 he and Morne together eliminated the Sp[ringbok backline attack completely.  He crashballed all the time and the was in evidence in the few games he played in 2013 as well.   The same tendency was noticeable in 2014.  He purely failed as a center and that is supported by fact and statistical data
Experience does not eliminate failure and that is a fact.  White is sentimental about Steyn.   I do not think that same sentiment will move Meyer - he is not about to play a player with a dodgy knee in a test.   
How somebody can even want a player that cannot train on Mondays and Tuesdays because he is in cotton wool to be part of the Springboks only because he has experience is beyond me.  Jordaan knows what to expect from Steyn - he knows he will be bloody lucky to get a ball passed to him and that any passes will be problematic.   Other players don't - so how can team strategy be built up in the absence of the pivot or the inside center and then applied that strategy in the test to follow?
Why is Steyn so essential for the Springboks if in all the games played this year he did one positive thing for the Sharks and comtribbuted ZIP for the rest? 
        
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 May 2014, 07:08
#32
31 May 2014, 07:08#32
Not true, the Boks have wrapped key players in cotton wool before....eg Doug Hopwood whose back was so bad he couldn't train. Oom face it, I have answered your question and instead of saying that the point is fair.....you are simply in denial again and about to begin yapping.
Your combination is not the only option....and if we were playing the ABs I doubt they would be selected. The fact that this is a nothing test is the most compelling reason to select two rookies.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 May 2014, 07:30
#33
31 May 2014, 07:30#33
 I am not in fsvour of two rookies - but if their is a choice between a failed player and a rookie - my choice will always be a rookie if that rookie has shown that he can produce the goods.
With your attitude no change to any team would ever happen.  You regard change as a sin the way you always write about the incumbents being the best.   
Hopwood was not a flyhalf - the pivot of the backline - or an inside center.   Incidentally the answer you gave are based on issues of years ago and on very rare gle incidents in matches.   My point is that Steyn did not produce the goods and it is proven by statistics.    The Sharks backline misfired continuously this year and that is a fact as well - recognized by many people and dealt with extensively in the media. 
I would play De Villiers and De Allende afainst the AB's - not ny other combination.  Definitely not Steyn and Fourie - both are seriously speed deficient and both are virtually  worthless in attack.     
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