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Springbok team announced . . .

Started by Rooinek42 REPLIES2,134 VIEWS· 17 Aug 2017, 14:13
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RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:13
#1
17 Aug 2017, 14:13#1

South Africa: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Raymond Rhule, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Ross Cronjé, 8 Uzair Cassiem, 7 Jaco Kriel, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth (captain), 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Beast Mtawarira


Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Pieter-Steph Du Toit, 20 Jean-Luc du Preez, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Curwin Bosch, 23 Damian de Allende

Uzair Cassiem ahead of a Du Preez twin? Ridiculous!
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,258 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:24
#2
17 Aug 2017, 14:24#2
Curwin Bosch should get his test debut. I am a major fan, just not sure what happened at the Junior world cup- probably poor coaching.He is a thinking player that knows when to kick or pass. He has the most accurate goal kicking boot in SA at the moment.
Wee Bongi will get a run in the last 5 minutes.Uzair is however, without a doubt, the quota bolter of the team.  

I am not sure why there is persistence with Jessica Kriel. 
The bumbling Hougaard is an effective impact player to snipe around the fringes, and support runs in open play.  He is not a starting scrumhalf or a scrumhalf for wet conditions. 
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:27
#3
17 Aug 2017, 14:27#3
Cassiem in the team is ridiculous! Rhule, Oosthuizen, Beast, Mbonambi and Hougard should also not be there. However, this is not an absolutely terrible team. They should be able to dispatch the Argies. I am glad to see the Cronje/Jantjies combo has been retained. There was a bit of hype this morning on the radio regarding Pollard, so I was half expecting his named to be mentioned. Bosch certainly has the talent, and I hope he can make a statement on Saturday, but I think it is still too early for him. Anyway, bring it on!! 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,258 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:34
#4
17 Aug 2017, 14:34#4
 They should have tie d this bandage around his head to make it more secure.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:37
#5
17 Aug 2017, 14:37#5
Jessica Kriel is there because the alternative is Dame de Allende?
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:48
#6
17 Aug 2017, 14:48#6
 @Moz...
Short memory sir?
Kriel was unbelievable against the French.
Much improved player on defense.

Lets be man enough to have the courage to change opinions on people...
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:51
#7
17 Aug 2017, 14:51#7
What has Cassiem done all year to warrant a spot? It should have been Jean Luc instead of him. No Dreyer either, how do we end up with 4 loose heads in the match day squad? I'm absolutely dumb founded. Well, Coetzee is picking up from where he left of last season by his mind boggling selections.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
17 Aug 2017, 14:59
#8
17 Aug 2017, 14:59#8
 @king, Cassiem is black
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:10
#9
17 Aug 2017, 15:10#9
Tell you what Chip -ou let's compare notes after the RC on Kriel. The French were completely out of it...nothing that happened in that series is a reliable guide.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:16
#10
17 Aug 2017, 15:16#10
Deal
If his overa ll ranking on Rugby365 is 6 plus, I win.
If its below, you win
Winner gets a bottle of Johnny Black (or something else if you'd prefer)
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:19
#11
17 Aug 2017, 15:19#11
The fact is that we have a number of poor selections in the team and some questionable ones as well.
Poor - Nyakane, Rhule and CassiemQuestionable - Kriel, Hougaard and Mbonambi
I hesitate to think what would happen iro the scrumming and the Argentine full back and wingers will run wild whemn opposed by Rhule.
This is like boxing with on hand tied behind your back.   I hate to say it - but the team has a good chance of losing the game on Saturday .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:33
#12
17 Aug 2017, 15:33#12
Surely a 7 plus....that seems to be about the average of these inflated rankings. And I'd suggest a bottle of Oban.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:43
#13
17 Aug 2017, 15:43#13
Mozart
The 2015 home test against the Argentinians was lost by a wide margin - so what makes this team better than the Meyer concoction of 2015?
In 2016 game the Springboks won 30-23.  However, all three tryscorers in that game (Whiteley, Combrinck and Goosen) are not playing in the game on Saturday and I have serious doubts about the team - especially iro poor selections .    
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:49
#14
17 Aug 2017, 15:49#14
@moz
 ok ill meet you halfway.
6.5
Oban it is!
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:49
#15
17 Aug 2017, 15:49#15
 I just had a look through fox sports super rugby stats. Cassiem doesn't even come in the top 20 for any of the key loose forwards. 
Another thing to note is actually how PSDT has been with his tackling. He has the most missed tackles in the entire comp. 
I'm starting to question PSDT quality, he makes a lot of meters whith his carries but his tackling is absolutely shocking. 
A lot of stormers also featured in the missed tackle stats, no wonder their season started to circle the drain towards the end. 
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/stats/players?position=forwards&category=defence&sortBy=missedTackles
To makes things worse. We have have 3 of the top 10 missed tacklers in our team. 
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/stats/players?category=defence&sortBy=missedTackles
1. Rhule 434. PDST 418. Jantjies 3421 Mbonambi 2825 Skosan 2835 Serfontein 26
Yikes, I hope Dr Venter can work his magic and get the guys to defend for the lives, hope we don't have a repeat of last season.  
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:53
#16
17 Aug 2017, 15:53#16
@clever, wanna place your bet against moz once and for all?
Put a bottle of Oban on it...

This may be a nice way to settle old issues (no pun intended)
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
17 Aug 2017, 15:55
#17
17 Aug 2017, 15:55#17
 I know that you can't always bank on stats, but I wished they had Possession Conceived, Try Tackles Missed. Just looked at Kolbe and he only missed 19 tackles all season, but of those, he missed crucial one on one tackles that led to a try. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2017, 16:00
#18
17 Aug 2017, 16:00#18
Deal Chip....this is all very civilized.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,258 posts
17 Aug 2017, 16:06
#19
17 Aug 2017, 16:06#19
PSDT certainly has tacking issues. What is also a problem, is how he blocks his own players from making tackles. Somewhat like the useless Jannie Duplessis
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
17 Aug 2017, 16:36
#20
17 Aug 2017, 16:36#20
 
Madness ... Kriel at 7 instead of the useless Kolisi ... Cassiem gets a start ahead of the impressive Du Preez ..Nyakane is back, belly and all ... and the brain dead De Allende returns.

I see 2 bonce pass HouGat has cemented his spot as scrummie cover.
 
Go Pumas!!!!!!!!!!!!



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
17 Aug 2017, 17:05
#21
17 Aug 2017, 17:05#21

Where are you based Chippo


Just wondering who has to send what to where when they lose this bet, I already know Moz is in the states somewhere

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Aug 2017, 17:46
#22
17 Aug 2017, 17:46#22
@DA. Both Moz and Chippo are safe. They could both claim the dop got lost in the post. Chances are that it is very plausible that if Moz sent his, it would probably leave the States and make it as far as OR Tambo. If Chippo has to send it, there is hardly a chance that it would even get as far as OR Tambo.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,258 posts
17 Aug 2017, 17:52
#23
17 Aug 2017, 17:52#23
Use Paypal. https://www.paypal.com/za/webapps/mpp/country-worldwide
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Aug 2017, 18:02
#24
17 Aug 2017, 18:02#24
KC
 You must be careful not to fall into the Mozart misrepresenting trap - giving missed tackles without regard to the number of tackles made.   A player with a high tackle count will obviously fail more often in tackle attempts than others.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2017, 18:22
#25
17 Aug 2017, 18:22#25
Tokkie I know you badly want a biscuit today, but I'm not in the mood.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Aug 2017, 18:49
#26
17 Aug 2017, 18:49#26
 clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 27062RE: Springbok team announced . . .
August 17, 2017, 18:02:49

KC
 You must be careful not to fall into the Mozart misrepresenting trap - giving missed tackles without regard to the number of tackles made.   A player with a high tackle count will obviously fail more often in tackle attempts than others.   
Geez but at times you love to open yourself up for abuse, don't you? Bearing in mind what you have just said yourself, would you like to revisit Morne Steyn's tackle stats in THAT Ellispark test?  The one where he missed 4 out of eleven tackle attempts, remember? Yes, that one. The one where Willie Le Roux missed all of his five attempted tackles. The one where he had the third most tackle attempts behind Eben Etzebeth and your other friend, Fat Alberts.
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
17 Aug 2017, 18:54
#27
17 Aug 2017, 18:54#27
 Rather Cassiem than Oupa but that's not saying a lot. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Aug 2017, 22:47
#28
17 Aug 2017, 22:47#28
Uzair Cassiem ahead of a Du Preez twin? Ridiculous! Amazing ou rooitwit makes a correct call . No oaks don't be too harsh on poor rooitwit that he misses the other disgraceful picks. One must acknowledge ou rooitwit comes from a very low base and this achievement of his should be seen in the light of this. 

WE HAVE REACHED THE POINT WHERE TEST WINS AGAINST ARGENTINA ARE NO LONGER A CERTAINTY AS IN DAYS GONE BY.
    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    17 Aug 2017, 22:59
    #29
    17 Aug 2017, 22:59#29
    Well maybe he doesn't drop the ball all the time....look up my vs Wales player ratings ....Cassiem was the highest rated Bok.
    3K
    3ku1Pro2,580 posts
    17 Aug 2017, 23:31
    #30
    17 Aug 2017, 23:31#30
    I rate Skosan pretty highly. So good selection on the wing their. Bit of dead weight in their though. Rhule comes to mind. I would of put a Combrinick their instead. Jaco Kriel at 7? I don't think he's ever played at 7 for the Lions. He was imo the best looseforward of super rugby this season. But at 8.
    sharkbok
    sharkbokCaptain23,258 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 02:20
    #31
    18 Aug 2017, 02:20#31
    This team is pretty good. Lots of options on the bench, so some of the players are sure to hit form. A few quotas, but not too bad. The main thing nowadays for the Boks is the rucks. If they are competitive at the rucks, they will be ok.
    DE
    DennyCaptain12,893 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 03:12
    #32
    18 Aug 2017, 03:12#32
     Tokkie I know you badly want a biscuit today, but I'm not in the mood.

    DE
    DennyCaptain12,893 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 04:10
    #33
    18 Aug 2017, 04:10#33
    Soon we'll know just how good or hopeless the French team were and whether they're a good benchmark to measure the progress of the Boks after their dismal efforts of last year. Personally I think the French were a tired outfit after suffering a grueling domestic competition and therefore had no stomach for a year end tour. There's some soft touchups in the Bok team, they're simply not test material and never will be, what's more, those who should be there have been left off the squad.
    CL
    CleanCutPro9,905 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 08:43
    #34
    18 Aug 2017, 08:43#34
     
    Oh boy ... Shark Twat making his name tottie again.

    "This team is pretty good. Lots of options on the bench, so some of the players are sure to hit form. 

    The main thing nowadays for the Boks is the rucks."
    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!

    Listen bozo ... best join Dumb Ass and not comment on anything rugby related.



    KI
    kingcornPro3,695 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 10:52
    #35
    18 Aug 2017, 10:52#35
     Well, the Argies had a 6 weeks break where our guys only had 2 to 3 weeks. Let's hope the bulls players step up their game. I thought that Serfontein did great against the french but it could have been the equivalent of playing a currie cup team for all we know. 
    I really hate the current tournament formats. SA rugby need to get the currie cup back into life and get rid of this long over drawn super rugby. Probably need to do vent about this on another thread. 
    CE
    CeradynePro9,374 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 13:19
    #36
    18 Aug 2017, 13:19#36
    Getting the Currie Cup back into life might not sit too well with the political PTB. It would look like "something from the past" was actually worthwhile.
    SA
    Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 15:52
    #37
    18 Aug 2017, 15:52#37

    Jessie Kriel has been bloody good for both the poor performing Bulls this Super series and was outstanding against the French - you lot need to actually base your calls on current form instead of defining him according to your past ill informed prejudices.


    Same applies to Jan Serfontein, although no anti is being thrown his way here, but that was certainly not the case a year ago.


    What I do notice from ignorant rugby observers is how little they actually know about the modern game.


    Given how structured test rugby is these days and how tight the defences are.......one would swear we have seen test centres carving holes in defences at will and that somehow the likes of de Allende, Kriel and Serf are lagging.


    Which test centre has stood tall in say the last 2 years? The answer is absolutely no-one......Farrell, Joseph, Davies, Williams, Roberts, Basteraud, Fofana, SBW, Fekitoa, Crotty, L/Brown, Kirivi, Kurandrani, Henshaw etc


    Most if not all these centres have found themselves in and out of their national sides as none are able to create the kind of impression centres did in the past, where more space and less physicality was afforded the players of the past.


    At best centres function as solid members of the side, gaining the odd metre in contact and every now and again being afforded the luxury of a break.


    We saw that with Davies at 13 for the Lions who made an impression but the same player had a very quiet 6N.


    Against the French we saw both Serf and Kriel put on a Davies for the Lions display but had been at best solid the year before.


    Its the nature of the modern test that dictates that we don't see centres ripping defences apart, its reality.


    What he have identified in Serf, Kriel, de Allende and Janse v Rensburg is that they are able to live at test level.......I suspect Vorster and Am would be the same, as would Frans Venter, Odendaal and EW Viljoen but not all will be afforded that opportunity to prove it

    KI
    kingcornPro3,695 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 17:38
    #38
    18 Aug 2017, 17:38#38
    Good point Saffex, I can't remember any centre bashing through to score tries at will. It is more in the wide channels that the guys seem to gain meters or around the fringes with a pick up and drive or inside pass. 
    That is also probably why the NZ persist with Sonny Bill as he has the size and hands to draw in defenders and off load the ball to players in space. Very few centres can actual hold up defenders, go forward and still get a decent offload / pass out. 
    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    18 Aug 2017, 20:59
    #39
    18 Aug 2017, 20:59#39
    Stepfontein 74 tackles made/26 missed.....74% success ratio . Jessica Kriel 66 tackles made/14missed....82% . Dame de Allende 30 tackles/14 missed....68% . Viljoen 74 tackles/30 missed...71% .. It takes Rohan 2.2 runs to beat a tackle which is terrific.....but it takes Allende 4.2 runs, it takes Serfontein 3.1, takes Viljoen an embarrassing 5.5 runs. And that's 'bloody good'? Good is a player like Leinert Brown who against better oppo takes 2.8 runs to beat a tackle and tackles at 85%......bloody good is somebody like Ezcurra of the Jags who beats 29 tackles in 51 runs or a tackle every 1.76 runs.
    SA
    Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
    21 Aug 2017, 15:08
    #40
    21 Aug 2017, 15:08#40

    Oh what utter crap Moz if Lienert Brown was that good he would be starting at 13 for the Kiwi's and not warming the bench. He did squat against the Lions.


    He like the rest of my list of test centres finds himself struggling to make the impressions centres did in the past for the game is no longer opened up in the centre channels.


    Fact is Serf and Kriel have been very good over the past few months and are experiencing a purple patch right now like Davies did against the AB's


    Lienert Brown cant even make the AB starting side, he has been overlooked for Crotty who in fact is a 12


    You are wrong as per usual, but more than that you are out of touch with the modern art of centre contributions

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