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Springbok team for Argentina test

Started by clevermike29 REPLIES501 VIEWS· 13 Aug 2014, 14:42
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2014, 14:42
#1
13 Aug 2014, 14:42#1

Here it is - now for the debate:-


15. Willie le Roux,  14. Cornal Hendricks,  13. Damian de Allende,   12  Jean de Villiers (c) ,  11. Bryan Habana,  10. Handré Pollard,   9. Ruan Pienaar,  8. Duane Vermeulen,  7.  Willem Alberts,  6. Francois Louw,  5. Lood de Jager,  4.  Bakkies Botha,  3. Jannie du Plessis,  2. Bismarck du Plessis,  1. Tendai Mtawarira


Replacements:


16. Adriaan Strauss,  17. Trevor Nyakane,  18.  Frans Malherbe,  19. Eben Etzebeth,  20. Marcell Coetzee,   21. Francois Hougaard,  22. Morné Steyn,  23. Jan Serfontein

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 Aug 2014, 14:47
#2
13 Aug 2014, 14:47#2
Good Meyer is experimenting with the backs . They should be good . 
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
13 Aug 2014, 14:58
#3
13 Aug 2014, 14:58#3
I like the look of this side! Backs are very exciting and the forwards very settled and solid. Not sure at all about Bakkies though, but I guess Etzebeth needs to get back into the swing of things. 
I am very happy about the inclusion of De Allende and Pollard in the starting line-up.Very pissed off that Pienaar is even in the squad, let alone starting!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2014, 15:03
#4
13 Aug 2014, 15:03#4
 Meyer did not do anything unexpected.   The backline is probably the best he can come up with.   The fact that Morne is not starting is really encouraging.   He is still on the bench - but he should not be there as well.   Maybe he should go back to France - soonest.
I can appreciate why Meyer picked Pienaar at scrummie - even though he is not the player that should have been in that position.   Meyer will not play Pollard unless he has two experienced players on both of his sides - ie at scrummie and at 12.   But that will also go out as Pollard gained more experience.  I would have preferred Reinach - he is miles better than either Pienaar or Hougaard.
The huge disappointment is the selection of Alberts - the worst loosie he could possibly have picked.  The player should never have been in the squad.   Juan Smith - even in his declining years - is  ten times better loosie than the low work rate Fat Sloth.
Then we have the ancient Bakkies at lock - That is also an aborton if Bakkies's performances in the last four tests he played in  is borne in mind.   Meyer painted himslef into a corner insofar as locks is concerned - ad since he apparently wants to phase in Etzebeth - he picked Botha for the starting line up.   Just not good enough.
I would have preferred Lambie insetad of the Stade Francais Reject on the Bench - but am otherwise happy the Toulouse Reject is not on the bench.
A slow process to get rid of the geriatrics.   One consolation is - they are so poor - they will play themselves   out of the squad sooner rather than later.  Three more changes needed - and we will get the best available team on the field of play. with Alberts, Ballies and Pienaar gone.
LASTLY - a hearty welcome to Damian de Allende - will have to get a pic of him in the Springbok jersey for my avatar.  Dixon was right - this guy is going to go places.  He will make the no 13 position his own as will Pollard make the 10 position his own.    

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
13 Aug 2014, 15:12
#5
13 Aug 2014, 15:12#5
 
Probably the best Bok side I've seen Meyer select so far.

Pity about Bakkies and Pienaar though.

The bench is looking better as well. Especially the forwards we have there .

HouGat isn't a favourite of mine. Reinach should have at least been on the bench.

Morne will always be Meyers blue eyed boy. Can't see that changing any day soon.

I doubt Serfontein will get more that his usual 5 minutes. Pointless.

Very pleased so see no Gurthro.

Reckon the Pumas are in for the high jump.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Aug 2014, 15:33
#6
13 Aug 2014, 15:33#6

That side is far better than it could have been......I was expecting useless Morne to start and its a blessing that Victor is injured.......hopefully for the rest of the season!

 

Bakkies starting is a joke, it should have been Willemse if Eben was going to be introduced off the bench.

 

Louw and Alberts sell us short in the lossies and Pienaar is hopeless at 9

 

Its an average side, but better than expected.

 

At least the clown has dispensed with useless Steenkamp on the bench

 

A 50/50 side

 

Great to see de Allende at 13, he will be great there  

BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
13 Aug 2014, 15:42
#7
13 Aug 2014, 15:42#7
 CleanCut, what really bothers me is how many passengers Meyer keeps about..Eg. Hougaard was our starting 9 a few years back..He never had a great game or "Bok worthy" performance at 9 so they shifted him to wing. He was still nothing major there and was best coming onto the wing from the bench. An impact guy..
Why is he still floating around the Bok setup? Clearly Meyer does not think he is a great scrummy hence the reason he was dropped. Now why is he on the bench? Surely someone else who may be our next best should come into the equation. On this occasion, that would have to be Reinach as he has been identified as "the man" going forward. Should he fuck up in a number of games, then he too is gone..Why do we keep passengers..
Lets take NZL and Aus..Genia is Aussie' best 9..He has not been playing like it and he is gone! Nic White and Phipps are their 2 best performing 9's and they are both in at the expense of the huge name that is Genia. Andy Ellis is better than any 9 in SA but he is not involved with the AB's as they have identified Aaron Smith and TJ Perenara/Kerr-Barlow as their best 9's..If Ellis was a Bok, he would never have been dropped..I strongly feel that the Boks should have Kockott and our next best 9 there..Hougaard is not that!We cant just hide him on the bench and think he will never have to play.. Its purely weakening the bench..When the Aussies and AB's make changes at 9, they lose nothing..In fact, they gain something a little different..A nice balance..We gain nothing bringing Hougaard on after 60 mins and that is no different to the whole bunch of nothing we had in the first 60 mins with Pienaar there..
So many good players in SA..So many passengers in the team!
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Aug 2014, 15:43
#8
13 Aug 2014, 15:43#8
 
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3495 Probable Bok team for Argentina Test:- Sunday Independent
August 11, 2014, 19:08:01

Probable Bok team for Argentina Test: 

Willie le Roux, Cornal Hendricks, Damian de Allende, Jean de Villiers (capt), Bryan Habana, Handré Pollard, Ruan Pienaar, Duane Vermeulen, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Lood de Jager, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira. 


Replacements: Adriaan Strauss, Frans Malherbe, Trevor Nyakane, Bakkies Botha, Marcell Coetzee, Francois Hougaard, Morné Steyn, Lwazi Mvovo

..Sunday Independent


No specialist fullback cover, but Mvovo did play at 15 for the Sharks but does not have much of a clearance kick. He would however be dangerous on the counter, but does seem more like a wing because i have never seen him pass the ball.

Bambie is back to bag carrier.  








CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2014, 15:53
#9
13 Aug 2014, 15:53#9
 boklogic
I am not a Hougaard admirer - he was dropped by Meyer as scrummie in 2012.   He then played an iffy season of Super Rugby in 2013 - marred by injury in the main..  Came bck this year in Super 15 and was a t best average.   I agree with you he is not the guy to carry us forward.   
I think the bench choice should have been Reinach - not Hougaard.   Reinach is going to develop further - I cannot see Hougaard developing any further from the low he has reached in his career he has consistently maintained from 2012 onwards.  
Bar the Pienaar selection - I am happy with the backline.   
The only real weak points in the team is Alberts and Bakkies Botha - pity they are still around.       
   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2014, 16:02
#10
13 Aug 2014, 16:02#10
 Ceradunce - the Stupid
No comments from the slowest thinker on the web - had to quote Sharkboks's comment.  The problem is we are still saddled with the Stade Francais Reject on the bench.   Hopeully he goes back to warm the bench of his Club asap.
Then Bakkies is still around to be pushed over by the Argentinian locks - pity about that one.  He is slightly better than Matfield - the Slapgat that should have stayed out of the game for keeps - but that still means nothing.  Neither hould have been in the squad in any event.   
Pity Meyer painted himself into a corner with his lock selection.   He had the opportunity also to move either Louw or Coetzee to the 7 position and missed the boat there as well.       
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
13 Aug 2014, 16:24
#11
13 Aug 2014, 16:24#11
 
Exactly Logic.

I've been calling for Kockett since Moses fell off his friggin camel. Why Meyer insists on useless HouGat is beyond me.

It's the same with our friggin Government. They catch some minister with his fingers in the cookie jar and instead of prosecuting him and chucking him in jail, they remove him from that dept and make a minister of something else.

That's why I have no faith in Meyer at all. He's allowed former player to befriend him and now feels obligated to select them. What else can it be?

Bakkies is another useless liability ... taking up the space that belongs to another stronger, younger, better player.

Why? Cause he's a mate of Meyer ... Meyer doesn't want to offend the family.

He's a weak leader and needs to be ousted as soon as possible.

Drives me insane.


JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
13 Aug 2014, 16:30
#12
13 Aug 2014, 16:30#12
 This starting 15 line up is above par and well advised compared to the other selections which was flawed in many ways. With the new RC selection of De Allende, Pollard and Lood De Jager shows Meyer is willing to experiment with the players which is a good sign for Springbok rugby leading up to the RWC15 . I don't think De Allende, Pollard or De Jager will disappoint in the RC or RWC, they need to be in the first choice selection in the up coming matches against AUS and NZ also.

The real weak links in the team are Pienaar, Alberts, and Jannie. To some extent they do not deserve the starting spot as I mentioned before. Alberts does not have the versatility to compete with the others, there is no speciality that Alberts got that is a asset to the team other than his weight in the maul and scrum. His general play far more predictable than any other loose forward that I've seen. I'd much rather start Marcel Coetzee over Alberts and Reinach over Pienaar.

Bakkies is not a bad selection, the odds are he will perform more acceptable than Matfeild did. He still has a some strength and mobility in him although I'd prefer him to start off the bench when Etzebeth gets back to his best. Etzebeth has had a long term injury that was sustained which is why he will remain on the bench but good to see that he recovered in time for the RC.

Springboks to win by 30 +
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Aug 2014, 17:05
#13
13 Aug 2014, 17:05#13
What do you know about leadership CC(III)? Huh? Tell us about your leadership experience B aldy.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Aug 2014, 17:52
#14
13 Aug 2014, 17:52#14
 @Jerome:

"With the new RC selection of De Allende, Pollard and Lood De Jager shows Meyer willing to experiment with the players which is a good sign for Springbok rugby leading up to the future. I don't think De Allende, Pollard or De Jager will disappoint in the RC or RWC, they need to be in the first choice selection in the up coming matches against AUS and NZ also."

Just prior to or shortly after the game against the World VX someone, on here, said that Meyer was busy "taking stock" of and experimenting to have his ducks in a row by the start of the RC. It was one of our kiwi friends and for some reason I think it was Just_win. That was the way that I saw it as well. I mentioned at some stage that he used the older guys against Wales and the World XV, while they were available, and that he would use the youngsters in the game against Scotland.

That was also the first game that Pollard was available. Pollard has been managed very well and HM had a big hand in it. He was the one who spotted him as a future Bok, while still at school, and he was the one who got Dawie Theron to use him off the school benches for the JRWC when Goosen got injured and he was the one behind his move to the Bulls. He then had him play for Tuks. He saw to it that he slowly climbed the ladder through Varisty Cup, Vodacom Cup, CC and into Super Rugby and then into the Bok team, instead of having him follow the Goosen route, and at this stage one has to believe that it could well have paid off.

What I am trying to say is that I don't think that HM is experimenting any more. He has his plans ready for the RC. He knows who are going to play where and when. That is the way he works.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2014, 17:58
#15
13 Aug 2014, 17:58#15
 Lets hope he does not have Matfield and Botha as locks - we need a Tight 5 - not two useless hasbeens.   Also hope he send the Stade Francais Reject back to France to warm the Club bench - he is not needed - same also Gurthro Steenkamp.  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Aug 2014, 18:35
#16
13 Aug 2014, 18:35#16

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12211 RE: Springbok team for Argentina test
August 13, 2014, 14:02:46  Ceradunce - the Stupid
No comments from the slowest thinker on the web - had to quote Sharkboks's comment.  The problem is we are still saddled with the Stade Francais Reject on the bench.   Hopeully he goes back to warm the bench of his Club asap.
Then Bakkies is still around to be pushed over by the Argentinian locks - pity about that one.  He is slightly better than Matfield - the Slapgat that should have stayed out of the game for keeps - but that still means nothing.  Neither hould have been in the squad in any event.   
Pity Meyer painted himself into a corner with his lock selection.   He had the opportunity also to move either Louw or Coetzee to the 7 position and missed the boat there as well.        
FFS but you are scraping the barrel. Of course I am quoting Sharkbok's post. Why do you think that I quoted it in total, including his name and the timestamp. Fokken onnosel moer. I only quoted that post, where he in fact quoted a newspaper article, predicting the make-up of the first RC team.

Fuck it, I am trying to put this reply together but I cannot stop laughing at the stupidity. Can't you see what I did? I quoted that post to show how close that prediction was to what the team that was actually announced today.

And just to take things a bit further. One day, it might dawn on you that the only problem with Morne in the mix, is between your two ears. It is surely not a problem for HM or the entire Bok management team.

I wonder what you are going to say if Plisson and Steyn are once again rotated in the new European season, just like they have been in the past season. As was pointed out to you, they were rotated until the very last games of the season where Morne started the penultimate game and Plisson the last one. You jumped at the effort by becs (yo the rescue) who said that he was listed as a utility back and only started for SF on three occasions. When I threw the facts in her face, she put in one feeble attempt at a response by saying that Sky had him as a utility back. She never even commented to the number of games that he started. When the Sky website story blew up in her face as well, she pulled a typical StupidMike stunt by quietly sneaking away from the thread.
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
13 Aug 2014, 18:42
#17
13 Aug 2014, 18:42#17

After all Cobus Reinach has done in this years S15 there is no real rational answer as to why Pienaar and Hougaard is picked ahead of him. I don't think Reinach could've play any better than he did. He is the best scrum half in SA. He would've make a difference with his immense form and abilities.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Aug 2014, 18:57
#18
13 Aug 2014, 18:57#18
 He has made a few crappy decisions under pressure. You would not want a dodgy decision maker next to a green flyhalf in an important test.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Aug 2014, 19:22
#19
13 Aug 2014, 19:22#19

Look Reinach scored some great tries and he is a great runner. Perhaps he should have played wing. What he is not is a great tactical kicker, clearance kicker or even passer. He doesn't see the game as well as Pienaar.

 

 

Sure I agree Pienaar seems to dither and he kicks perhaps too much. But the last thing you want is a Reinach putting Pollard under pressure when Pollard is learning the ropes himself.

 

And Jerome FFS change your avatar.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2014, 19:34
#20
13 Aug 2014, 19:34#20
 Mozart
Your Dimness   -  you come up with v ague allgations about Reinach and when asked to pinpoint where in matches it happens - you cannot prove anything.   He is a good technical kicker - you went ballistic because one kick went astray.  Pienaar is NOT a technical kicker - his kicks are often too long and aimless and Hougaard is not kicker at all.  
Be it is it may - you are entilted to your own impressions of players based on vague distortions  - same as we are based on factual evaluation.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Aug 2014, 19:37
#21
13 Aug 2014, 19:37#21
 The irony.

"Your Dimness   -  you come up with bague (sic) allgations about Reinach and when asked to pinpoint where in matches it happens 0 you cannot prove anything."

.
.
.
.
"
Pienaar is NOT a te4chnical (sic) kicker - his kicks are often too long and aimless and Hougaard is not kicker at all. "
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Aug 2014, 19:49
#22
13 Aug 2014, 19:49#22
 Reinach is currently our most promising scrummie. Penaar has dithered away and made a complete twit of himself for some time now. If Reinach cant get picked against the Argies when will he be picked?You can have your more experienced palyer on the ebnch for insurance if needs be. Meyer is exremely cautious. I dont regard the Argies as any better than a top Super 15 side and Reinach has had plenty of experience at that level. Why play Alberts with his extremely low work rate. It is alarming Meyer has not picked up on this issue. What a pity Schalk isnt there I think meyer would have at least had Schalk in before Alberts.I habe no problem with the solid Morne on the bench. Mike you overstate your case!Bakkies wont let the side down and is a big improvement on pap victor. At least bakkies is a lock. Pity Willemse was ignored.
Otherwise not a bad side
Wonder how Allende will go - been out for a while. I hope he wont get crucified if he is a bit rusty and ditto Jean. Malherbe and Etzebeth are wisely on the bench.Is Nyankane a test prop?Its right Jannie starts but give Malherbe say 30 minutes. Make sure all the guys are ready for Oz and the we abs.




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Aug 2014, 20:02
#23
13 Aug 2014, 20:02#23

Yes Reinach has plenty of experience at S15.....having to be replaced by McLeod against the Highlanders when the game was in the balance...and being a big part of the problem against the Saders. You mean that kind of experience?

 

HasBEEn you are fully bought in to all the rubbish.

 

1) Reinach is  the finished product

 

2) Malherbe is a test class prop ready to supplant Jannie

 

3) Alberts has a low work rate....the poor bugger has been at lock much of the S15

 

4) Bakkies is an ok filler and Victor is "pap"

 

5) And de Allende's challenge is rust not experience 

 

This is all rubbish. Reinach is way not ready to tackle the RC. Malherbe was a joke against Wales in Nov....NZ will slaughter him. De Allende is a brute, England and France have their brutes at 13. I think this is what interests HM. But you have to be a top level centre first. De Allende should be ok against the Bargies, bu t beyond that is a hard call.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Aug 2014, 20:17
#24
13 Aug 2014, 20:17#24
 You harp on re the match against the crusaders but dont say a word about 13 sharks beating the crusaders. Wise up Dr Moz the whole sharks team were way off the form seen during the rest of the season.Reinach looks to be better that either Hougaard or Pienaaar - who has done zip in test after test. 
And no I do not want an underdone Malherbe starting!And no I dont even want the underdone Etzebeth starting even if he is on form the best lock in the world.
Bakkies cant last a full game and is good possible 60 minutes.The 106 kg matfiled is the papest lock ever to play for the Boks. Name me a more pap lock. I challenge you. 38 by RWC. Man its a joke having this guy ruining our tight 5!! 
Allende on form will slot into Test rugby with realtive ease. 
I have seen Malherbe not give an inch to Beast. If he is fit he will be fine. He was not looking that great when coming on for WP so how ready he is must be a question.
Reinach should have started against the Argies. Coetzee also. We cannot afford the slow and low work rate against the abs and Oz playing high tempo rugby END OF STORY
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
13 Aug 2014, 20:18
#25
13 Aug 2014, 20:18#25
 It is also fair to say Hougaard and Pienaar have been put under pressure easily in the past so that wasn't a valid point. When the fly half doesn't have much space to make a clearance kick in his own try line, it is only then when a scrum half should kick from the ruck but Pienaar does the opposite and kicks at unnecessary times. It isn't even effective kicks because they tend to dip too early with not enough hang time for the support runners to catch the ball. There is nothing spectacular about Pienaars kicking from the rucks or Hougaard who is a winger not a scrum half.

Both do not have the x factor or pose much of a threat to the opposition than Reinach. He had a superb season this year in S15 and was the main player that assisted the Sharks to the playoffs. How typical from SA coaches to underrate the greater player. Its a shame really.

@Mozart There is nothing wrong with my avatar, I am a fan of both Pollard and Goosen, I've met Goosen before I think he's a good chap. I no longer take your views seriously anymore imbecile. Get real and make a solid point for once, but what do you know? Nothing.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Aug 2014, 21:02
#26
13 Aug 2014, 21:02#26
 

Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11334 RE: Springbok team for Argentina test
August 13, 2014, 18:17:14  You harp on re the match against the crusaders but dont say a word about 13 sharks beating the crusaders. Wise up Dr Moz the whole sharks team were way off the form seen during the rest of the season. 
So what happened in the semi-final? Are you saying that the team choked when push came to shove ...........?

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
13 Aug 2014, 21:48
#27
13 Aug 2014, 21:48#27
I would like to see how Reinach plays at Bok Level. 
I think he could be more in the mould of Sarel Pretorius and Hougaard as very dangerous with sniping runs around the ruck. They are good passers of the ball, but not great. Neither are great tactical kickers either. 
Reinach is fast and has lots of pace of the mark, one of the benefits that many younger players have over their older counterparts. 
In terms of a classic scrumhalf like George Gregan and Fourie Dupreez, I have not seen him dictate truly dictate the pattern of a game. 
In the 1st match against Wales Dupreez was the general calling the shots, and when Hougaard came on he was good- but the option taking from the half backs was not as good. It was up to Willie to dicate the style of play on the day. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2014, 22:24
#28
13 Aug 2014, 22:24#28
 Mozart
Alberts was not at lock most of the Super 15 series - he played at lock about a quarter of the matches.  He is a low work rate player - and that is a fact.  Slow and of no use insofar as ball protection and recovery is concerned - and is a poor ball handler to boot - who cannot throw a pass and in 95% of the cases where a ball is passed to him - h knocks it on.
In the first Welsh test Bakkies lasted 15 minutes and became invisible.  He was replaced at halftime and De Jager came on and played a massively better game.   Bakkies was of no rel consequence in any of his last four tests - what makes him a  candidate for future selection?  Definitely not performance.  
Matfield is really a joke - the way he get pushed aside in mauls is laughable.   He is not a player that brings anything to Tight  5 play - a regular slapgat.
He is at the De Allende thing again.  Do you really still wants De Jongh at 13?  Is that the reason for all the muck you write on this site insofar as De Allende is concerned?
Mozart - just one question? When are players normally subbed?  Mostly at minute 60 = not so?   Well R einach was subbed at ninute 66 in teh Highlanders game and minute 60 in the Crusaders game.  So what you wrote about him being subbed is your standard crap.  Incidentally McLeod made a huge hash at one scrum that cost the Sharks a try - in the semi.  Remember that one?   
One has to accept that your view on players is so badly tainted by pejudice that you miss the boat completely all the time.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Aug 2014, 02:03
#29
14 Aug 2014, 02:03#29
Its entirely logical to sub your enforcer lock and your power flank in the last 20 minutes as the game opens up. Anyway I thank you for sending me the article on Reinach....OOm. Sadly though, the writer who thought he would walk into the Bok team against the Bargies, is just as naive as you. In future at least send me articles where the author's views don't blow up the next day if you don't mind. That sort of rubbish is such a waste of time.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Aug 2014, 02:19
#30
14 Aug 2014, 02:19#30
 So the so-called enforcer lock and power flank are the only players subbed at minute 60 - amazing.   Are you talking about Botha being the enforcer lock - when he became invisible after 16 minutes - what was he "enforcing"?   Nothing.   He used to be an enforcer lock 5 years ago - he is nothing of the sort at present.   He will on Saturday be the same - show something for not more than 20 minutes and vanish from sight. 
As to Alberts - what is a Power Flank?  Somebody that does next to zero for the whole game and is incapable of going the basic functions of a loosie.  The pwer flank that is tackled immediately after getting possession of the ball - who is so clumsy he faulls over his own feet when he has to try and affect a ball turnover - like he did in the Ellis Park test  0 whiose tackle count is low and jhis missed tackle ratio high.  Who has demonstrated hsis poweer tackles when Treeeby pushed him aside and he fell on his backside in the Highlanders game.  
Before Alberts let down the Springboks - like he let down the Sharks so many times - it would eb ebttr to replace him.  Like eh did at Ellis Park - he will fail on Saturday and that is clear s daylight.  WE need a loose forward - bot a fat and lazy dumbo.   .       
— END OF THREAD —

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