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Springbok Team for Saturday

Started by clevermike45 REPLIES859 VIEWS· 12 Nov 2014, 13:17
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 13:17
#1
12 Nov 2014, 13:17#1

Here is the team:-


15 Willie le Roux,  14 JP Pietersen,  13 Jan Serfontein,  12 Jean de Villiers,  11 Bryan Habana,  10 Pat Lambie,  9 Cobus Reinach,  8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger,  6 Marcell Coetzee,  5 Victor Matfield,  4 Eben Etzebeth,  3 Jannie du Plessis,  2 Adriaan Strauss,  1 Tendai Mtawarira

 
Replacements: 

16 Bismarck du Plessis,  17 Trevor Nyakane,  18 Coenie Oosthuizen,  19 Bakkies Botha,  
20 Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje,  21 Francois Hougaard,  22 Handré Pollard,  23 Cornal Hendricks


My reservations about the team remains the same - the weak spots being in the Tight 5 - Matfield and Bakkies being the problem cases, the loosies and essentially the number 7 position where my confidence in Burger took a serious downturn last Saturday,  and Pietrsen on the wing - he is too slow to play at wing in the present environment.   The other problem area is still we have two essentially inside centers making a mess of possession in the midfield.   

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Nov 2014, 13:22
#2
12 Nov 2014, 13:22#2
Well, it's going to be interesting. Not much impact on that bench, was a perfect opportunity to get Kriel involved.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 13:26
#3
12 Nov 2014, 13:26#3
 Pakie 
Ever heard of Quotas - hard at work here.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Nov 2014, 13:31
#4
12 Nov 2014, 13:31#4
No doubt.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Nov 2014, 13:31
#5
12 Nov 2014, 13:31#5

Another disaster selection by Meyer......his treatment of players is alarming.......one would swear Pollard had a bad game......Meyer is a poor coach, poor selections and pathetic player management.......look no further than his treatment of JJ, Lood, de Allende, Nkanyane, Goosen and now Pollard and Hougaard.

 

What a backwards step bringing in yet another geriatric is Schalk......my guess is that Danie Rossouw will be next

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:05
#6
12 Nov 2014, 14:05#6
 Great Move to bring back Schalk Burger who was so good on his brief outing against Ireland. ou maaaaikie and snapster please see the optician soon!Burger at 31 is harly a geriatric. He is burning to be let loose. 
I certainly would not have dropped Pollard to the bench for this game!!!
Playing pap victor will ensure we loose badly in the tight five - becomes tight 4 etc .
Bissie is the ideal hooker against England. 
JP had to come in as Hendrick's defence is suspect. However I feel Allende is as good an option. 
Lood not even being on the bench is a disgrace! 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:05
#7
12 Nov 2014, 14:05#7
Dave
To be quite frank - I am not really surprised abpout the Pollard issue.   The moment Meyer decidd to drop Hougaard - it would naturally happen that Lambie would come in at flyhalf.    Reinach and Lambie has played as ha;f-back pair many times for the Sharks and I think they have a good understanding of each others play.  Pollard could also have a rest - he is very young and a day off would help him.   
The mad selections are Bakkies at bench lock -  the gruntless Matfield at lock - and after last Saturday Schalk Burger at 7.   I would also change the center pairing - what had happened thus far is simply not good enough from an attacking perspective.   I also think that Pietersen with his speed deficiency will not make the grade.  
Will Jnnie be good enough in scrumming?   I would say at best a 50-50 chance of that happening.   
If we lose the game on Saturday our Tight 5 is where we are going to lose the battle - the geriatrics will be our downfall.      
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:08
#8
12 Nov 2014, 14:08#8

 Considering who Meyer has in the squad and the fact that he isn't going to hand out debuts to players against England that is about as good as it gets.


Very happy to see Nohje is not in the starting 15, the rotation of Bismarck and Strauss continues and I think it is only fair to give Lambie and Reinach a shot.


JP is an improvement on defence at least

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:11
#9
12 Nov 2014, 14:11#9
 Beeno
Burger any good on Saturday - you seriously must be joking.  He was bllody poor at best.
Burger0/000/2/5000017/00/020/0
He died with the ball in hand -made no terrtiory -  lost ball possession once - gave away two penalties - made 7 tackles - and all that in 35 minutes.   Other than the 7 tackles - the rest was abso lute crap and in fact a piss poor performance.   
Wake up brother -  Schalk faded out badly - look to me that even as a bench player - he ran out of steam. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:11
#10
12 Nov 2014, 14:11#10
 Jannie ahd a very good game against Ireland so no problem there unless the purpsoe is to test palyers like Redlinghuys.
Ou maaaikie stop talking nonsense about Burger asseblief boet!I afully agree re matfiled of course and have grave concerns about Coenies scumming - it has been poor so one can only hope meyer has done something to get it right.
Mike i dont think you should read too much into Englands dismantaling of the wee abs scrum (That penalty try at the end was priceless stuff) Most sides give the pap abs a tough time when it comes to scrumming.  The wee abs pack lacks prescence!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:26
#11
12 Nov 2014, 14:26#11
Beenkop, Schalk did sweet stuff all when he came on........Oupa was in fact better, which does not say much  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:28
#12
12 Nov 2014, 14:28#12
 "Reinach and Lambie has played as ha;f-back pair many times for the Springboks and I think they have a good understanding of each others play."


Really?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:41
#13
12 Nov 2014, 14:41#13
 Ceradunce is back - after he went into hiding because th players he supports all the time last week was disgustingly poor.  Sorry I meant Sharks - thanks for pointing that eror out to me.  
When they played together for the Springboks against the Wallabies - they were dynamite.     
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:43
#14
12 Nov 2014, 14:43#14
 
Same match 23 as last week.

How is this supposed to make a difference?

No Kriel ... No Julian ... No C arr ... No De Allende ... No Senatla ...

Nothing new ... same old tired match 23.

Well at least they'll keep the Poms to less than 15 pts.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:48
#15
12 Nov 2014, 14:48#15
 Ou maaaikie how many times have you seen Reinach playing for the Boks.Perhaps that explains you not seeing what Schalk did.
Boks to win on Saturday dispite everything. Just cut out the litlle errors which marred their dominant dispaly against Ireland. England will not find the going against the Bok pack as easy AS LAST WEEK END dispite matfiled!

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:54
#16
12 Nov 2014, 14:54#16
Schalk didn't have a great outing against Ireland, and I say that with no bias against the man. That greasy ball must have got to him as well.
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
12 Nov 2014, 14:54
#17
12 Nov 2014, 14:54#17

Meyer is aiming at another 4 years with the Boks and will select the required number quota players, come what may. Get used to it.

The only way a more merit based squad could have been selected was to have a black coach who is a member of the ANC. It still beats me why SARU could not find a way to incorporate old Snorre or even Alistair Coetsee when they announced the appointment of Heyneke Meyer.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 15:00
#18
12 Nov 2014, 15:00#18
 Beeno
I corrected my mistake as to Reinach - everybody should know what I meant.  
Just ask  yourelf - who made the errors against the Irsih?   Burger featured prominently - one ball possession loss and two penalties given away.   
I have a bad feeling about the game on Saturday.  Since Botha and Matfield was brought into the Springbok squad - we have gone backwards in performances.   I will analize that issue later after the November tests - but I think the signs are already clear.   
Some of the other older players - like  De Villiers and Jannie  Dup - went performance-wise on the slide this year and was not a patch on how they performed last year.  Added together - the gfeneral performances of the Springboks this year was below   the standard set last year.       
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2014, 15:01
#19
12 Nov 2014, 15:01#19

No problem HasBEEN, the OOM explained it was just an "eror". Haha......the man should have been a comedian.

 

Well there is huge pressure on Lambie and Reinach. They certainly failed a similar test in the S15 semi....and Reinach looked ham handed against WP a few weeks back. But Hougaard was so bad last week, he simply has to be given a bench role.....maybe his natural athleticism will be better in the closing stages

 

Lambie landed a stunning kick against NZ and scored a fine try. He has experience at Twickenham....so there is logic in this selection. In a way I'm also glad Pollard is not taking full responsibilty at this stage....it's going to be tough out there. Although I agree with Dave that in a conventional sense Pollard has done nothing to be dropped.

 

Is Lambie tough enough.....he has gone both ways.....but I remember his first test at 10 against NZ where he took the pressure. This is a defining moment for him....I have my doubts, but he could finally become an established Bok with a good performance .

 

Schalk for Mohoje was the only move. It's stunning to see Hendricks fade away after scoring such key tries. I would have put JP at 13....but I suppose the Poms dont present too much threat in that channel.

 

 

In aggregate 5 changes from the team that beat NZ a month back says HM is not settled on a number of positions.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Nov 2014, 15:16
#20
12 Nov 2014, 15:16#20
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13922 RE: Springbok Team for Saturday
November 12, 2014, 14:41:09  Ceradunce is back - after he went into hiding because th players he supports all the time last week was disgustingly poor.  Sorry I meant Sharks - thanks for pointing that eror out to me.  
When they played together for the Springboks against the Wallabies - they were dynamite.     
I wonder if becs would spot the Messiah like powers here.

"I corrected my mistake as to Reinach - everybody should know what I meant."  Now where have I seen this kind of tap-dancing before?
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
12 Nov 2014, 15:26
#21
12 Nov 2014, 15:26#21
 Mainly 3 things went wrong IMO for the boks last weekend:

- The center pair. It remain the same.

-The halves pair. Pollard and Hougaard suffered too much pressure from the opposite pack which forced the loss of many balls and the inability to traduce into points the superiority in the set pieces.
Pollard is too green yet and was outplayed by his counterpart Sexton in tactical kicking and gain of territory. Lambie deserves a chance but he has failed everytime he started so the coice is quite difficult here.
Hougaard was horrendous, a change is needed at scrummie but Reinach is not the answer. He's also too green yet, he's very good on attack when the pack is clearly dominant (won't be the case next sat) but he has to learn a lot yet on how to distribute the game and do the right choice (this was quite clear in the last matches of the sharks when he was replaced by McLeod and the backline suddenly got some fluidity that was lacking with Reinach).
Given his lack of experience he'll be targeted by the English loose trio as was Hougaard last weekend. If we sum the fact that Lambie tends to fail, the halves pair very probably will be a source of problems.
I would have played with Vermaak at 9 who is more experienced and probably would have continued with Pollard at 10 (Vermaak-Lambie could have been other option).

- The breakdowns. That was an area of concern but Vermeulen and Coetzee are some of the bests here so I would continue with them but focussing them on that area and having a good ball carrier and linebreaker at blindside.
Mohoje is not that player but neither is Burger. This last carries often the ball but doesn't produce anything, he's stopped very easily when he crashes the opposite defensive line and is unable to break any line or gain any meter.
Carr or Kriel are a lot more effective bal carriers.

So none of the problems have been solved IMO and may be some of them, specially the halves pair, could even get worst.
I don't think this team could beat England
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
12 Nov 2014, 15:26
#22
12 Nov 2014, 15:26#22
 Handre is barely getting a rest, he's still on the bench and still has a job to do. 
I'm positive about the Lambie and Reinach combination for the Boks, smart by Meyer to ease Reinach into international rugby by surrounding him by the familiar. Let's hope Vermeulen combines well with him also!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 16:10
#24
12 Nov 2014, 16:10#24
 Mozart
Most of the weak performnce areas last week has not been corrected as yet.   Those are -
*   the center partnership;*   the lock disaster;*   the no 7 debacle.
The two issues tht has been dealt with was the scrummie problem - and the defensive problems of Hendricks.
The last two has to deal ith th geriatrics in the team - the gruntless Matfield, the lazy Bakkies and the Out-of-steam Burger.   Burger may make some improved comeback, the other two are just weakening the Tight 5 on a continuous basis.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2014, 16:19
#25
12 Nov 2014, 16:19#25

The locks were terrfic you moron....we won the lineout battle, handled all the kickoffs, won the scrums and the locks made 10 tackles without missing one.

 

The centres are a problem.....I agree. We are playing a slow 12 at 13....it's really as simple as that.

 

Schalk will be great on Saturday, great players rise to the moment.

SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
12 Nov 2014, 16:58
#26
12 Nov 2014, 16:58#26
Heyneke 'King of Bone' Meyer actually replaced his love child, Handre Pollard ? So maybe it wasn't just me who saw Pollard's indifferent performance against Ireland ?

Pollard sucked - simple as that. Sugar coat it all you like.

Lets hope Lambie has a good performance and perhaps....just perhaps there is a small glimmer of hope that Meyer can look beyond the Jacaranda trees for his Springbok flyhalf.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
12 Nov 2014, 17:12
#27
12 Nov 2014, 17:12#27

Can I ask why everyone has to be called a moron, idiot, or anything else they deem derogatory when they don't agree with someone else?



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2014, 17:45
#28
12 Nov 2014, 17:45#28
Moron is a term  of endearment. Stupid, lying, delusional old moron might indicate a bit of irritation.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
12 Nov 2014, 18:02
#29
12 Nov 2014, 18:02#29
 "Moron is a term of endearment" First time you've made me laugh, maybe the world isn't so bleak after all.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2014, 20:23
#30
12 Nov 2014, 20:23#30
Shezza I think we just got off on the wrong foot. Probably my fault....I'm happy to let bygones be bygones.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 20:47
#31
12 Nov 2014, 20:47#31
 Mozart
Balls.  Other than two balls won by Etzenbeth on Irish thro we won no line out balls that we would not have won.   Bakkies inthe 24 minutes he was on did squat and Ma tfield ws on two occassions just pushed out of mauls and he gave away a penalty as well.   Whatever they did well was done by Etzebeth - not by the two old buggers who played at lock.   Bad news those two.
I agree with you in a way about th center problem.  However, DE Villiers showed zero in the pace department this year and he showed very little - other than constant crashballing.  Whatever effective line breaks were made  was actually made by Serfontein when he played at `12 during the June tests.   De Villiers this year is not a shadow of the player he was last year - so both are to blame - not only Serontein.          We'll see about Schalk on Saturday - he looked very out of steam on Saturday and one can only hope it will not be repeated on Saturday.   - 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2014, 21:46
#32
12 Nov 2014, 21:46#32
So Oom you missed Jeans break that set us in  motion for the last try, his deft grubber that got us I position for Pollards try against the ABs....and the brilliant pass that released Hendricks in Salta. Apart from his one run where he beat Horwill, which of these "Steppie  breaks" resulted in anything?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2014, 22:00
#33
12 Nov 2014, 22:00#33
 A  G foeitog.   He made a pass in th Aegentina test tht went from pordinary to brilliant in the books of Mozart.  The kick was fine the try of Hougaard was better where Serfontein off loaded the ball in the tackle to Houugaard who was in the clear. 
De Villiers playe din 6 matches and you had to scratch around to find three cases where he did well at 12.   He buggered up more than he did well - that is a fact too.
Just think back to the Welsh test where Serfontein was at 12 and made a number of very siginficant breaks.   
I normally always was a great De Villiers fan - but this year he was sub-par both in Super 15 and the tests he played in.   That really is a fact that most people realizes and it remains a hindrance in the team.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Nov 2014, 00:51
#34
13 Nov 2014, 00:51#34
A number of significant breaks.....which resulted in what? These are almost always inside stepping from Steppie. Seems to me at the moment I have you three to one. The man has been innocuous for such a young centre in his physical prime....at that stage Jean and O Driscoll were awesome. How is this guy different from Meisie kind....about as big, about as fast, about the same inside step. He just has a better press agent.
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
13 Nov 2014, 01:19
#35
13 Nov 2014, 01:19#35
 Shezza I constanly get amusement from Moz and his quips. Almost as much as I get from Mikes frustration in their battles.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
13 Nov 2014, 17:58
#36
13 Nov 2014, 17:58#36
 I'm happy to do that Moz. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Nov 2014, 18:07
#37
13 Nov 2014, 18:07#37

Moz you cant start qualifying breaks or defenders beaten by what happens after the break or beat.....fact is Jan beat 5 defenders against Ireland and made one clean break......not bad after receiving the ball 10 times.

 

The fact that you get tackled after beating a defender or you lack a support runner to continue the momentum after a break or defender beaten is part of the game......are we only to measure those beats that amount to something?

 

You play what is in front of you, test rugby is about split seconds.....getting past a defender is a skill regardless of what happens thereafter for in most cases the first beat amounts to very little as the cover is there to snub your next move.....that's the nature of the beast  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2014, 00:04
#38
14 Nov 2014, 00:04#38
Well check that break for example. Willie appears as if he is going to challenge Steps marker...at the last second he cuts in between the two defenders, and commits both.Step has come to his inside and his marker, is recovering from stopping Willie and partially blocked. Step beats his stretching arm tackle and is free. But there is no explosion of pace and the covering 7 brings him down.
Step did everything right in that move, but the genius was added by Willie. There is nothing wrong with Jan, he is just rather ordinary. We may have none better, but unfortunately every one of our key opponents do.
I trust that honest feedback is within our new rules Shezza.  
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
14 Nov 2014, 01:44
#39
14 Nov 2014, 01:44#39
 As long as we're talking rugby and no childish nonsense it's fine by me.
Serfontein is quick enough for international rugby at inside center, there aren't too many 12's that are known for their pace with Wesley Fofana being the only one that is particularly quick. All of Jamie Robert's, Ma'a Nonu, Joe Toomua and Billy Twelvetree's aren't the fastest.
Serfontein will show us his worth at 12 when he get's an extended period of time there. Not 4 tests to make a patch up job for when De Villiers came back in June, look at Australia for example with Toomua, they've persevered with him at 12 for 10 tests now (Approx). 
That Irish 7 was always going to tackle Serfontein no matter how quick he could of been. The out stretched arm did kill some momentum too. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I'm just saying it as I see it. His offloading game isn't Sonny Bill but it is still there and it's better than De Villier's. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2014, 01:57
#40
14 Nov 2014, 01:57#40
The way I see it 12 has become the preserve of very big men....Nonu, SBW, Jean, Roberts. The only small guy I have seen succeeding is Fofana, and I wonder if the Frogs shouldn't switch him and Basteraud.
To me Step has neither the pace nor the raw strength to make things happen. I also wonder if Toomua will ever pay back the investment in him...against the ABs and the Boks he has looked like the weak point in the Aussie backline.

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