Springbok team for Tri-Nations

 Taking injuries into account my Bok side for the TN would be:

15. Willie 14. Mvovo 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Habana 10. Lambie 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. de Jager 5. Etzebeth 6. Brussouw 7. Elstadt 8. CJ Stander 16. Strauss 17. Jannie 18. Nkanyane 19. Jacques du Plessis 20. Coetzee 21. v/Zyl 22. Jantjies 23. de Allende

 Saffex each week you published your SuperXV bok barometer.

Most of the time it was Morne Steyn you selected at 10 and rarely if ever Lambie.

Now you have selected Lambie ahead of Morne?

 My Springbok Team-

15 Willie le Roux (reserve Lambie)

14 Bjorn Basson  (reserve MVOVO)

13 JJ Engelbrecht  (Jean to outside centre when Serfontein enters the fray)

12 Jean de Villiers (c) (Serfontein during the game)

11 Bryan Habana  

10 Morne Steyn- The only option given that Goosen is injured and Pat Lambie was terribale in 2013)

9 Jano Vermaak- The top scrumhalf in SA

8 Duane Vermeulen- Good carrier and fetcher. (Alberts for some Mongrel to start)

7 Lappies Labuschagne- - Good carrier and fetcher

6 Francois Louw- Good carrier and fetcher

5 Pieter-Steph Du Toit- Time to get some mongrel

4 Eben Etzebeth- This is his tri-nations to shine. Last season he did not produce some of the same form he did in the SuperXV.

3 Frans Malherbe (Jannie Du Plessis). Du Plessis is just not consistant enough

2 Adriaan Strauss/Bismarck du Plesis (Adriaan to start as the incumbent)

1 Coeni Oosthuizen/Beast   (Beast not consistent enough to start- 

Replacements:

16 Adriaan Strauss/Bismarck Du Plessis

17 Beast

18 

19 Lood de Jager

20 Marcell Coetzee- Inject speed and tempo, good cover tackles in the last 30 minutes.

21 Cobus Reinach

22 Jan Serfontein

23 Pat Lambie.

my Bok team for the RC seeing as how i dont have a timemachine to send them back to TriNat days, :oP

1 beast, 2 a strauss, 3 c oosthuizen, 4 l de jager, 5 e elizabeth, 6 f louw, 7 l labushcnage, 8 d vermeulen, 9 f hougaard, 10 m steyn, 11 b habana, 12 JDV, 13 j serfontein, 14 jj englebrecht, 15 willie le roux
16 bizzy, 17 j du plesiss, 18 f van der mewe, 19 m coetzee, 20 c reinach, 21 p lambie, 22 b basson

i think ive chnaged my mind regarding the Boks selecting players based overseas, with the poor player mangement that those in charge have on both domestic and national level, its imperative that the Boks not just pick players in SA, otherwise it would the likelyhood of the Boks ever beating the All Blacks again would be about the same as the pumas.
IMO NZ is the only country in the world that can afford to only pick home based players.

this is with the current crop of SA players who should be fit come the RC/4nats who IMO is the best of the best and TBH, ive never felt more comfortable of another whitewash victory to the All Blacks should that be the team more or less, provided that hansen uses logic which he has, its all good in the NZ hood.

Beast, Strauss, Jannie, Etzebeth, Kruger, Louw, Alberts, Vermeulen

Pienaar, Morne, Habana, Jean, Serfontein, JJ, Willie

Coenie, Bismarck, Herbst, Elstadt, Fourie

Pretorius, Lambie, Aplon

 Sasuke, all the over- sea's players that you've picked will most likely star in the Bok squad. But come towards the EOYT tests you may see some of them get phased out. Except Habana. Habana is Habana.

My Team

I forgot about Marcel vd Merwe. Great potential.

Not sure why you went with Basson. He's great in the air but other than that doesn't do it for me.

Jacques Du Plessis is also worth a mention as loosie / lock cover.

We certainly have some exciting talent to select from.

I rate Engelbrecht highly. I don't really agree with you regarding his lack of pace. His work rate and physicality surpasses Vermeulen in my opinion ... by some way actually. He has more than sufficient pace for cross cover defence and constantly gets in the oppositions face. Awesome strength. .

We need at least one enforcer in the back three ... that's where the "slower than a prop" Alberts comes into play. Having Etzebeth with his usual abrassive physical approach, I think these two compliment each other nicely. 

Most test matches are not opened to broken play. A strong physical crash ball runner is still part of the game, Mike. Always will be. This is where Alberts sets himself head and shoulders above Lappies.

Reckon there's more than sufficient pace in my loose trio and to add ... a lot of grunt.

@cleancut,

" I rate Engelbrecht highly. I don't really agree with you regarding his lack of pace. His work rate and physicality surpasses Vermeulen in my opinion ... by some way actually. He has more than sufficient pace for cross cover defence and constantly gets in the oppositions face. Awesome strength."

i agree 100%, and its a shame that someone like englbrechett is in the meyer era, cos the closest that enlbrechet will get to a Boks team is threads like this. no way does meyer have the spine and creative rugby spirit to take a punt on him.

here is my team as i will not pick and overseas based players

fracois louw and co will need to play in south africa if they even want to sniff a bok jersey again.

team is based on the game pattern that i have seen in the mini tournament so if they stick to that pattern and tempo i am sure that this team will go a long way forward

15 Willie le Roux

14 Mvovo

13 JJ Engelbrecht

12 Jean de Villiers

11 Raymond Rhule

10 Johan Goosen (Pat Lambie)

9 Cobus reinach or piet van zyl

8 Willem Alberts

7 Lappies Labuschagne

6 Heinrich Brussouw

5 Pieter-Steph Du Toit

4 Eben Etzebeth

3 Jannie Du Plessis

2 Adriaan Strauss(c)

1 beast

Replacements:

16 Bismarck Du Plessis

17 coenie

18 marcel van der merw

19 Lood de Jager

20 deon fourie

21 Cobus Reinachor piet van zyl

22 Jan Serfontein

23 Pat Lambie.

Hey Stupid ... I like your loose trio.

Especially Stander at 8.

Rate him highly.

@Sasuke

Agree with your backline. Serfontein would be so much better at 13 bringing others into play. Problem with Hougaardt is that he gives cues away what is he going to do next and they are trying to make a Fourie Du Preez out of the poor lad. They did same thing when Joost retired at the Bulls tried to make Groenewald another Joost till FdP came along 

Sorry Moz but the Boks have been poor for sometime now and especially under Meyer last year, when we had a surplus of talent to choose from  - hell we had 3 of our S15 sides ending in the top 5 and Meyer still could not get it right.

Meyer's prime issue is poor selections and an out of touch gameplan. Those selection issues start with the likes of Juandre Kruger who is clearly not up to it at test level. He is no Matfield, not even close. Then we have investment in players like Kirchner, Basson, Jean, de Jongh, Morne, Pienaar, Juandre Kruger and Spies.......not to mention the pathetic selections of Steenkamp, CJ v/d Linde, Heinke v/d Merwe and co.

The Cheetahs scrum has been good all S15 and thats a fact. As highlighted, there was no issue with Coenie at 3 against the Brumbies. Goosen was not nervous againt NZ he was playing with an injury picked up in the game before against Oz, he should never have played that game. Goosen vs the ordinary Morne is a no brainer. Taute did not have a hand in 3 NZ tries that is simple not accurate......what is accurate is that he was our best 13 last year and has only had a handful of tests.

We will not challenge the AB or Oz if we continue to invest in Jean at 12, Morne at 10, Pienaar at 9, Kruger at 5, Alberts at 7 and Spies at 8.......these players are either past their best or just dont offer the clout needed to make a difference. But most importantly, we have better youngsters to take their place. Meyer and some posters place far too much emphasis on the conservative and selection of experienced players. Until these old washed up players start delivering a 75% win record under Meyer, I will continue to question these poor selections.

There is no way in hell Jean should ever be selected ahead of Serfontein, or Morne ahead of Goosen or Lambie, or Pienaar ahead of Hougaard, v/Zyl or Reinach, Juandre Kruger ahead of Steph du Toit and a host of other young locks, or Alberts or Spies ahead of Kolisi, Botha, Stander, Coetzee, Elsatdt, Brussouw or Labascagne........it just does not add up.

Bok rugby needs to move on.........with a reliance on a core of experienced players in Habana, JP, Frans, Hougaard, Beast, Bismark, Strauss, Chiliboy, Brussouw and Louw......add these to certainties in Willie, JJ, Serfontein, Goosen, Lambie, Coenie, Etzebeth, Coetzee, Vermeulen and Arno Botha and near certainties in Taute, v/Zyl, Malherbe, Nkanyane, Steph du Toit, Kolisi, Labascagne and Elstadt and the Boks are sorted, provided we ditch that pathetic kick and chase tactic

Dave I know you sincerely believe what you say....but take your point on Taute. Try one.....he fails to find touch when our defence is totally scrambled.......direct try. Try two....Dagg steps him through the outside gap.....direct try. Try three.....he is facing an overlap where a seasoned centre like Jean would immediately have rushed up....he hangs back....direct try. That's three.

Bok rugby has to live in the present and new players have to demonstrate they are better than the incumbent. Start down the revolutionary path and lose a few games and the coach is gone. All our coaches get that.....to imply they are all clueless is a mistake.

Last year  everybody was moaning because Michalak was chosen ahead of Lambie. This year Lambie got his chance....Sharks back play imploded.....and Lambie is close to a basket case. 

 @Saffex,

Most weeks you publish a team of the week. 

Many of these times you chose Morne Steyn.  (I agreed reluctantly because no other flyhalf from SA was playing well).

But I remember at the time thinking if you chose Morne so many times, if you would use this team of the week Bok Barometer to use a selection.

-

15. Visser 14. le Roux 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Rhule 10. Morne 9. Vermaak 1. Coenie 2. Strauss 3. Kirsten 4. de Jager 5. Kruger 6. Brussouw 7. Labascagne 8. Arno Botha

This is the link. of just one example.

http://www.sarugby.com/forum.cfm?threadid=4523

If you type into Google-   Saffex team of the week 

This gives postings you have made. Click on the link, more listings. 

----

I just remember that you chose Morne more and more as the season went on. 

Although their were no other options with Lambie playing so poorly and Goosen injured.

Look at the treatment Hansen receives vs Meyer. Hansen is praised and lauded for his team management and the way he is "building" towards the World Cup by the NZ press and commentary yet he follows a protocol that if Meyer had stuck too he would have been crucified - namely that his new caps received only token game time and he picked his squad based on reputation not form. 

New caps that played in Spring Tests with total # of mins combined in 3 tests: Thrush (12 mins), Pitutau (8 mins), Luatua (10 mins), Todd (8 minutes).

Players picked on reputation - Dagg (Ben Smith easily being the best fullback in S15), Nonu (how bad was he in S15), Conrad Smith over Ranger (if Ranger had started all three tests would he have left NZ?)  to name a few.

Meyer on the other hand introduced all kinds of youngsters and new caps, picking several based on S15 form - JJ, Serfontein, Arno Botha, LeRoux etc and gave them starting roles and/or significant playing time. PSD probably would have got some too if he could have stayed healthy. He also retained established Boks especially in roles for which there was no clear challenger.

The contrast between Hansen and Meyer is stark and you would think Meyer would get some credit for his relative ambitious approach, but what is clear is that there is a right and wrong way to go about building a championship quality side. Throwing a youthful side out there - especially in the RC would be foolish and counter-productive. Meyer has maintained a balanced approach between experience and youth which is absolutely necessary to give the squad its best chance of winning current games and building confidence while also building for the future. Things are moving in the right direction. Backline play has improved. There is strong leadership in place with sufficient youthful excuberance. 

Very good points, Oimatey. I must admit, I was one of the first to jump on Meyer for his Bullscentric selections but Meyer is grinding out the results and most of the Bulls youngsters have vindicated their selections.

Right now, if I was given the choice of Steve Hansen or Heyneke Meyer for national coach, I'd take Meyer in a heartbeat.

 Find myself in agreement with Oimatey and the second part of Rooineks comment.

i remember Meyer saying specifically that he'd learnt a lesson from a drubbing the Bulls received at the beginning of his tenure there when he decided to opt for a young team.

@spoony,

piet van zyl is the same for me, he gives away huge clues before he clears the ball, its something that IMO will be captalised on by smart loosies. he does have that wicked road runner gas though.
i like hougaard though, i know what u mean by the bulls especially trying to turn him into du preez but thats such a mistake, they should just encourage his natural attacking game, but thats infamiliar territory as far as the bulls and Boks are concerned.
hougaard is one of the strongest halfbacks around and his passing game has improved a lot also as has his box kick, but theres still room for improvement, but like sarel, he has great vision and knows when to attack, especially around the fringes.

@oimatey,

injruies nelped meyer with some of his desicions IMO, after all there was no lappies and a good opportunity to play him when botha was rules out, yet meyer went with alberts.

IMO hansen had to approach the french cautiously, they have been a thorn in NZ side for so long and like the wallabies, Boks and england, must be treated like the tier 1 threat that they are, hence selecting players whose current form was questionable (dagg, smith, nonu), but have never let the All Blacks down, and as always, they delivered especially nonu and dagg. dagg has been since test 2 IMO the best fullback since then, even better then ben smith, but smiths form has been top shelf all year.
dont forget that ben smith was still selected for all three All Black tests though, daggs selection would have been more questionable had it been at the expnse of ben, but hansen showed how u can have ur cake and eat it too.

luatua IMO was one player i would have liked to have seen more of, he had a fantastic season but its clear hes down the pecking order with vit and messam preferred ahead of him. vito i can understand, hes been solid and one of the few bright lights in the hurricanes, but messam needs to pull finger.

ranger though would have left regardless, his contract was signed last year, the only thing that made him make those ambigous comments about staying in NZ was the fact he was playing some of the best rugby in his career and it was form that hansen couldnt ignore.
when ranger tried to get out of his contract with montipellier, he was told he would have to pay $300,000 or just under 6 and half million rand, he wasnt in a financial position to do so and i cant figure out why the NZRU didnt just pay it out, as he would be worth the investment considering the incumbent All Blacks midfield is on the wrong side of 30.

i think meyer has done well with his selections in 2013, but i cant help but think that injury was the biggest push for some of those selections, but it was nice to see him give some of the younger guys a good run, even if it was against usual easy beats, its a far cry from the 2012 EOYT where he brought back players like seenkamp, i mean WTF??? its meyers selection policy as a whole (2012-2013) which is why he cops so much flak.

@Mozart

Its because in SA rugby its survival of the fittest. Our player numbers make a huge drop from junior to senior level.

 Sas - definitely Meyer had more opportunity than Hansen because of injuries, no doubt. Still, he deserves credit for finding the replacements in young guys who were on form. I rate Hansen as the coach of the best team in the world currently - he is definitely no fool - none of my comments were meant to say he was doing the wrong thing , instead I was showing how traditionally young guys are introduced to Test rugby (gradually and they have to earn it) and consideration is always given to experience and reputation. The fact that Dagg's season rebounded during the French Test's is testament to the principle that you give quality players an allowance for occasional poor form. The contrast I was drawing is how Meyer gets railroaded by a large portion of the SA public for not being progressive when he really has been. 

Moz - agreed about the permanent Bok crop and the fact that Meyer had a lot of catch-up to do from the PDV years but the Boks are in a good place now imo. A lot of selection headaches. Tighthead, scrummie and flyhalf depth are still issues though.

CC - Kockett is an interesting proposition. Haven't seen any of his games in France - how have his performances been?

@oimatey,

i think mozter hit the nail on the head, "they are also fanatical about winning", meyers winning percentage of 58.3% in 2012 is the main fuel in his criticism of fire, and his players selctions is but one of many flames which irk the fire hating Bok fans.

hard not to feel bad for meyer, injuries and player fatigue is out of his hand, its an issue that is a very real pcoblem in SA, as SA elite players tend to get over worked with spXV, Bok duties and then currie cup, while the NZRU has thier spXV franchises and ITM all set up to help benefit the All Blacks with the NZRU ready to step in and lay the law down should AB harmony be disturbed.

 Meyer has been on the right track. He has introduced a heap of players during his brief tenure. We are not looking at a coach who sticks with older players regardless. 

Right now he has a core of older players and some exciting younger ones. He is blending the newer players in and thats the way to go.

Again one has to say had Morne been kicking normally how many tests would the boks have lost last year. I can think of only one?

We know certain guys going to Japan are not available. Assuming no injuries my match 22 to commence the RC might be:

Beast, Stauss Jannie

Etzebeth, Flip

Louw, Botha and Vermuelen (7)

Reserve forwards - Coenie, Bismark and Malherbe. Du Toit, Labuschagne.

Vermaak, Morne, Habana, Jean, JJ, Basson and Willie

Reserves - Sarel, Lambie, Serfontein

As the tournament moves on perhaps start Malherbe and Du Toit, Elstadt, Serfontein etc. But to begin with cameos from the bench.

Some calls are fifty, fifty but that 22 has a nice mix. There are also a number of players like Alberts, Reinach Elstadt etc etc who equally could do well. Fact is Meyer has a lot tot work with. First priority is forward domination ala Dunedin and Twicks where the creeking ab forwards took a pasting. That achieved the nz netball rugby style falls apart.

Morne has been kicking much better and seems his normal self again.He was severely overplayed so his dip in form last year is completely understandable. 

Rooitwit I have to say is a great pleasure to see you posting some sense re Meyer. I have been holding my breath for ten years or more hoping for some sense from you and was about to expire - no regrets now!

All the Meyer bashing re picking bulle players has been exposed as a load of crud as well. 

To all who selected Basson as a starting winger

Stupid cunts 

With last year's performance in mind and bearing in mind the same symptoms in evidence in recent games  as happened last year - Morne Steyn  should bot be in any Springbok team  -  too dangerous, as he collapses under pressure,

After the recent games it is evident that we are back to last year and we cannot afford a repeat of that.

15  Willie le Roux, 14  Lwazi Mvovo,  13  JJ Engelbrecht,  12  Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana,  10 Pat Lambie, 9  Piet van Zyl/Cobus Reibach, Duane Verneulen, 7 Lappies Labuschagne, 6  Francois Louw, 5  Pieter-Steph do Toit,  4 Eben Etzebeth, 3  Frans Malherbe, 2  Asriaan Strauss, 1   Coenie Oosthuixen

16   Bismarck du Pkessis, 17 Jannie di Plessos, 18  Beast, 19 Lood de Jager, 2o  Marcell Coetzee, 21  Cobus Reubach/Piet van Zyl,  22  Dimitri Cztrakillis, 23  Jan Serfonteib

Waaaaaaaaahahaha out goes Basson and in goes Mvovo.....even if he can't tackle at least Basson can take the high ball....Mvovo can do neither.