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Springbok team . . .

Started by Rooinek25 REPLIES757 VIEWS· 07 Sept 2016, 19:40
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RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
07 Sept 2016, 19:40
#1
07 Sept 2016, 19:40#1

15 Johan Goosen, 14 Bryan Habana, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Juan de Jongh, 11 Francois Hougaard, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Oupa Mohoje, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Lourens Adriaanse, 2 Adriaan Strauss (capt), 1 Tendai Mtawarira


Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 21 Jaco Kriel, 22 Morne Steyn, 23 Lionel Mapoe


Looks to me like Allister can't recognize the weak links in his team and he's actually made it weaker.  

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
07 Sept 2016, 21:54
#2
07 Sept 2016, 21:54#2
 Oh sh............t.
Safe bet on the Aussies I think.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Sept 2016, 22:31
#3
07 Sept 2016, 22:31#3
Vs the RooiLochte  er bwaaaaaaaahahaha Probables...
 15 Johan Goosen, 14 Francois Hougaard, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Teboho Mohoje, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Vincent Koch, 2 Adriaan Strauss (c) , Tendai Mtawarira.Replacements: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Lourens Adriaanse, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Franco Mostert, 21 Jaco Kriel, 22 Morne Steyn, 23 Jesse Kriel.
Stunningly off the mark. Nice to see the bumbling Allende given a break, the poor tractor was losing more confidence by the game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Sept 2016, 23:25
#4
07 Sept 2016, 23:25#4

 AJ - You are 100% correct - the worst team Coetzee could possibly have selected.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Sept 2016, 00:00
#5
08 Sept 2016, 00:00#5
 Nope, he could have retained The Tractor.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,265 posts
08 Sept 2016, 00:09
#6
08 Sept 2016, 00:09#6
The backline is a combination of misfits. 
Not only are the combinations untested, but there is also lots of uncertainty if the backline players are even in their preferred positions, or if they are even test standard at any position 
Jessie Kriel has returned to fullback for SuperXV- a proven failure at 13- even if this is a desert of position in SA
Wee Dejong at inside centre could become one with the turf as a walking carpet that gets run over with ease.
He is strong is spirt- but he is midgit for an inside centre. Although he will at least offer more on defence than the revolving Delande



PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
08 Sept 2016, 00:18
#7
08 Sept 2016, 00:18#7
Two shambolic sides up against each other. Could be fun.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
08 Sept 2016, 08:01
#8
08 Sept 2016, 08:01#8

Goosen, HouGat, Kriel, Juan and Louw all playing out of position.
Throw in a panic stricken 10, a thick as a brick 5, a heart palpitating 1 and a decapitating 7 and what we have is a test team destined for greatness.
Poor Mbonambi will be lonely on the bench without Paige to keep him company. 



BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
08 Sept 2016, 08:14
#9
08 Sept 2016, 08:14#9
Both sides are pretty k@k, but the difference will be in the loosies. We don't have a sniff against Hooper and Poc0ck. Also, home ground advantage will mean Auzzies win it with ease. Met eish ja, met eish!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Sept 2016, 08:33
#10
08 Sept 2016, 08:33#10
 

The following are the BS selections:-

*    Juan de Jongh  -  the worst defending center ever with a proven AWOL record in tests  playing out of position at 12.   He flopped  badly when playing at 12 for the Stormers while De Allende was injured.

*    Elton Jantjies  -   his defense is basically non-existent and  under pressure he is utterly useless with poor decision-making

*     the putrid loosie combination

*     the props – all of Beast, Adriaanse and Nyakane are joke material.

This team is not the best SA team and with the Perth Disaster (Morne Steyn) on the bench  is a real problem scenario.  

By far not the best team available.   If Coetzee has a problem with De Allnde – why not Van Rensburg at 12?   I have no confidence in that concoction of our Idiotic coach .   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Sept 2016, 18:49
#11
08 Sept 2016, 18:49#11
Nope these  are the worst defending stats I've seen ....Allende in Bargieland

Damian de Allende14
Yep that's right ...made one, missed 4. Keep it real Tokkie.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Sept 2016, 22:14
#12
08 Sept 2016, 22:14#12
 He is still better than most.  I would have preferred Van Rensburg - but then we have a worst defender AWOL player at 12 this week.   You must really be delighted by that selection.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Sept 2016, 22:41
#13
08 Sept 2016, 22:41#13
 Very poor team selection by quota coach. The chances of a Bok win are slim but sport can be unpredictable. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Sept 2016, 00:13
#14
09 Sept 2016, 00:13#14
There is no good team.....you chaps haven't got the message yet.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,265 posts
09 Sept 2016, 02:22
#15
09 Sept 2016, 02:22#15
playing at 13 is the poison chalice in South Africa. They are unlikely to get the ball so they just become passengers. 
If the game plan is to not pass- which is always, then surely we need a 13 that understands defence. 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
09 Sept 2016, 04:11
#16
09 Sept 2016, 04:11#16
 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
09 Sept 2016, 04:22
#17
09 Sept 2016, 04:22#17
  Search for:

August 30, 2016 System failures or player errors?

Oom Rugby

Hi guys. To watch the Boks against Argentina again was not a lekker experience. I will rather go to the dentist with a brandy hangover. But anyway, when we watch the game for the second and third time and we make our notes, then we learn some things and maybe the frustration is less because at least we have some knowledge.

So what did we learn after watching this game?

We learn that the Boks has one small problem and one big problem. Let us look at the evidence to see what I mean.

DEFENCE

The first problem is the big problem, and that is the Springbok defence. We are very worried about this, especially because there is not just one issue, there is five issues the Boks is struggling with:

  1. Poor defensive alignment.
  2. Slow or incorrect “folding”.
  3. Individualism.
  4. Poor basics.
  5. Poor one-on-one tackling.

In the picture above I do not even need to describe to you what is wrong. We can see the outside defenders has no connection with the inside defence. It is very poor alignment. Even though the inside guys rush up, the outside guys must stay connected. This happened many times and it help create lovely line breaks for the Pumas.

Again we see in this picture above that Elton have shifted up and out, but Damian did not push up and out with him. So now Damian is almost behind Elton, occupying the same channel. And Damian have created a moerse disconnection because poor Lionel must take his alignment from him.

In the picture below we see something different. The Boks is not “folding” well at the ruck.

Folding is when defenders must run behind the ruck to join the line on the left or right, depending where the attack happen. We can see there is too many Boks on the left of the ruck. There is actually a total of 11 Boks in this picture – 3 lying on the ground. And the Pumas? They all waiting for the ball on the right… The picture below is 2 seconds later.

We can see the Pumas have lots of men on that touchline and there is almost no Boks. This is when Vincent Koch rush up in a crazy individualistic way and give the Pumas space to score. In rugby basics when you do not have enough defenders then you usually use drift defence to try to push the attackers to the touchline.

In the picture above we see another example of poor folding at a ruck. The Boks did not manage their numbers well and there is 5 guys on the left who does not need to be there. There is 14 Springboks in this picture, can you believe it? This is where the Pumas kicked onto the isolated Bryan Habana to score. But they did not even need to kick, they had enough men on the outside if they wanted.

In the picture above we see another example of individualism. You will not believe me but, one by one, the Springbok defenders just rush up to tackle the Pumas. Vincent rushed up, then Oupa will rush up on his own, Elton will rush up next, and then Damian will also rush up on his own. One by one they shoot up as individuals and it create moerse lot of spaces as the Pumas just move the ball through the hands.

In the picture above we see very poor defensive basics. A school teacher will give his kids a pakslae if they do this, never mind a Springbok. There is no pillar defenders at the ruck! The Puma 9 will break and nobody will touch him. Below it happen again. Pieter-Steph is too wide and move up to soon. There is no pillar defence and the 9 just say thank you very much and he is gone. Basics.

And of course I do not need to mention that our one-on-one tackling was not lekker either.

But guys, here is a important question: all these things we see, are they system errors or are they player errors? I think it is clear that the defence fail on a individual player level. The guys did not execute basics, like folding, pillar defence, and basic alignment. They make poor decisions and they make life very difficult for themself.

SUPPORT

Let us now look at the second main problem the Boks had, and that is support play on attack. This is a smaller problem and even though it create huge issues for the Boks it is very easy to fix.

Below we see a good example. The Bok carrier is isolated and his support players is too far away to protect the ball from the Pumas who pounces.

Here is another example.

And another lekker example.

Do you feel sick yet? I have many, many pictures of the Boks poor support of their ball carriers. Here is a special one where there is no Boks around, so the Puma do us a nice favour and go and pick the ball up for us.

But of all the things the Boks do wrong on Saturday night, our attack worry me least. I am not so concerned about it and I think our attack can actually be quite good.

I say this because when the Boks did start to protect the ball and support closer to the carrier then all hell break loose. We were like a engine that suddenly start firing. We got quick ball and then we looked very dangerous. Look at this clean in the picture below. The Boks take no nonsense at this ruck and suddenly Faf is electric again and our backs run onto the ball and make problems.

Yes, the Boks make some crazy decisions on attack, like Lionel Mapoe kicking the ball away a few times, but the fundamentals is there for us to do some damage, believe me. It is a easy fix to support closer to the ball, and when we did it then our backs looked good. Especially when we avoid rucks and try to keep the ball alive, like below.

Love them or hate them, the Boks have shown that they can put together some good interplay between forwards and backs. This sequence above lead to Bryan’s wonderful try where Eben and Flo was key playmakers.

So we must be careful to judge the effectiveness of the Bok attack when the problem actually is caused by something else. It is a player failure to be so far away from carriers and not be closer in support. It is not a system failure. If you see you being challenged at breakdowns then you go and protect them!

So where do that leave us? Yes there was some coaching failures in this loss, especially the kicking strategy to kick high balls all the time. But I will be honest most of the problems on Saturday came from the players. Watch the game again and you will see.

We are going to get carrots from Australia and maybe a record score against the All Blacks, that is a strong possibility. Even though I think our attack can be good, our defence is very weak. The guys are not executing well individually and not connecting well as a team and I do not think that will be fix overnight.

At the end of the day we support our coaches and give them a chance to get their vision in place. But sometimes a team can lose our faith very quickly. There is no doubt that Allister and his boys is on borrowed time now.

The problem is that the easy games is over and the real tests is about to begin. Can they get the team to click in time?

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Let's Chat

  • Jerri Mperdempes August 30, 2016 at 10:40 am

    Hey Oom

    Would love to get you to join our facebook group. i think you will enjoy us as much as we enjoy your analysis and perspective.
    Please add me on Facebook so I can invite you to our rugga group
    Cheers
    Jerri
    .

  • Keith August 30, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    Boks should not be learning the basics. Not should the coach. The fact that the basics are a disaster says a whole lot about the players and coach.

    Imagine the All Blacks having to work on their basics. Laughing stock of rugby they would be. Right now the Boks are that.

  • Johan Steyn August 30, 2016 at 5:30 pm

    Thanks Oom. This was great insight and I definately understand more about defending. Keep it up Oom!

Comments are closed.

Oom Rugby | Facebook



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Sept 2016, 07:40
#18
09 Sept 2016, 07:40#18
 Mozart - There was no good team in 2015 and you never got the message then.   Not even the loss against Japan by the most experienced team fielded by Meyer woke y ou up to that fact.  If that would not have happened we might just take note of your present rants. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Sept 2016, 08:40
#19
09 Sept 2016, 08:40#19
 We have the players to dominate the world ... and then some. That is a FACT.
Coetzee doesn't have a clue. He hasn't selected one decent side since he took over. 
As an example ... 6 of the 7 starting backline players DO NOT BELONG THERE ... of which 4 are being played out of position anyway. It's a friggin lottery.
Let's continue ... 6 of the 8 starting forwards DO NOT BELONG THERE. 
That's 12 of the 15 run on side ... and we're expected to be competitive?????????  
Pffffffffhaaaaaaahahahahahaaaa!!!!!
How ignorant is this buffoon?  
Moffie regards Coetzee's selections as our best. He says we have no better team. I guess ignorance is bliss. 
He ONLY supports the elderly ... and the only reason he does that is because he hasn't come to grips with his own elderly status.

The poor dear is a bitter old fool and we can expect him to regress even further as time goes on. 
He got it horribly wrong for the entire 4 years Meyer ruled the roost ... and I'm afraid he's continuing with much of the same now.
I stand by what I said earlier ... he needs to be put in a home. 

 

 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
09 Sept 2016, 10:27
#20
09 Sept 2016, 10:27#20
 Australia clear favourites with bookies downunder .... Australia paying $1.65 win -
SA $2.35 .

Similar in SA ?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Sept 2016, 12:29
#21
09 Sept 2016, 12:29#21
 
Goooooooooooo Wallabies!!!!!!!
That hurt!!!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Sept 2016, 15:02
#22
09 Sept 2016, 15:02#22
We don't have the players to dominate the world.....I doubt more than 4 of our players and no backline players would even make the Pom team.....stupid man.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Sept 2016, 17:08
#23
09 Sept 2016, 17:08#23
 Go Boks! At least give the Wobblies a good run for their money.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
09 Sept 2016, 19:43
#24
09 Sept 2016, 19:43#24
 @blobok,

very good article with illustrative pictures, thanx.
agree the defense is the boks' main problem,.... in this sense, is very significative that in both games when the argies were playing with one man down they have not only outscored the boks but also completely outplayed them,...... that's a consecuence of a very wrong defensive positioning,..... I thought that it was a coaching mistake but the article is probably right pointing to a fault of the players

respect the discussion about having the players to dominate the world (or at least to present a better team) or not,.... I would say that there are better forwards in SA that those currently in the starting XV,..... but SA have a big problem with the backline players

apart from Pollard, Combrick and possibly RJ van Rensburg (who still has to prove he's test material), there are no backline players in SA up to the test level.
Lambie and Jantjes have been very poor each time they played, de Allende is not the tenth part of the player he was last year, forget about Mapoe, Serfontein, Le Roux, JP, Mvovo,... Habana is already 33, he can still add something to the transition but that's all,..... who else?

even in the forwards there are some positions with  no depth at all,..... apart from Whiteley there are no nº8s,..... in NZ you have Read, Kaino, Squire, Vito, Luatua as proven test level players who are used to play as nº8s,..... and then some others like Luke Whitelock, Taufua, Akira Ioane who surely can step up,......
the other only proven option in SA is vermeulen but he showed very poor form in his last games (and he's injured)
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Sept 2016, 21:21
#25
09 Sept 2016, 21:21#25
 This idea we have the players at the moment is nonsense. Whether we will again have the players in future to challenge NZ is unclear
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Sept 2016, 08:33
#26
10 Sept 2016, 08:33#26

Abasque ... you are reaching waaaay over yonder with your NZ depth at 8th man.
Haaaaahahahahahaaa!!!
The only test 8 you mentioned is Read ... and perhaps Vito who in any case isn't from the top shelf. He's never been a world beater and I can't see that changing in his old age. 
Luatua is a great player ... as a jack of all trades that is ... I suppose you could use him if you were desperate enough but he's not going to set the world alight.  

I take it your source of information is from watching the Super Rugby, right?
I can assure you that Lionel Mapoe, Jesse Kriel and De Allende are not our best centers. They just seem to be favourites of some very ignorant coaches. As you can see De Jongh too is now part of the mix. 
Talent like Janse van Rensburg, Vorster, Venter, Odendaal and Swanepoel are all better options than what's currently been selected. Everyone of them overlooked. 
My personal preference is Janse van Rensburg at 12 with Vorster on his outside ... and Venter as cover on the bench. All three are superior to the overrated Crotty who in my opinion is merely a stop gap for lack of depth in NZ.
Mvovo and HouGat are not test option at wing ... yet for some reason they're in the mix. Still scratching my head about their inclusion. 
Habana is waaaaaaaaaay past his best ... and it seems his past feats is enough to qualify him. Totally beyond me.   
Guys like Ulengo, Skosan, Petersen, Mahuza who I rate highly and Gelant are all prospects for the future. Instead we have useless entities like fragile Goosen being played out of position and expected to do wonders there.
Pollard and Lambie are the best we have. We do not have much stock at 10 but what we have is decent enough to present a challenge.
Our front row is riddled with useless quotas like Beast, Mbonambi and Nyakane. We also have the tired and the elderly in Strauss taking up a spot that belongs to another. 
The less said about Adriaanse the better.
Props like Smith, Marais, Dutoit, Kitshoff, Dreir, Redelinhuyse and Koch are far better options than the rubbish selected currently.
Throw in hookers like Marx, Ackers, Bismarck and Marutlulle into the mix and what we have is a potent front row that could easily challenge and dominate the best in the world. 
We have the best 2 locks on the planet and an assortment of cover good enough to play test rugby. Guys like Willemse, Snyman and Mostert are all top of the line prospects.  
Our loosies of Louw, Mohoje and Whiteley can be improved vastly with guys like Jaco Kriel, PSDT, Vermeulen, Kirsten, Notshe and Roelof Smit. 
It's all a matter of proper selections and putting a competent international coach in charge.
The team that runs out today against the Ozzies is an embarrassment. 
If you know anything about SA rugby you would know this to be true.



 

   
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