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FORUM / RUGBY /  Springboks may deploy split squad for Championship

Springboks may deploy split squad for Championship

Started by kingcorn35 REPLIES1,211 VIEWS· 29 May 2023, 09:02
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KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
29 May 2023, 09:02
#1
29 May 2023, 09:02#1

Is it lunacy or will it work. Yet again, the organisers have come up with a pathetic schedule. 


I've just returned from Japan and can honestly tell you how much that trip messes you up. The whole time I was there I couldn't get into a decent sleep pattern, not to mention losing half a day and only going to be at 4 am. 


So Rassie wants to deploy a split squad again. It worked last time, bit this time we for Eddie Jones and Australia in waiting. New Zealand will not hold back as both teams have a point to prove and would want to send out a message to the rest of the world. 


I'm not against the idea of splitting the squad, but wonder who should be in the squads. 


On one hand we can send our best players ahead to New Zealand but do we want to risk all this travelling. 


Then, we have a large contingent from Japan that will need march fitness but New Zealand is not the place. 


Lots to consider. One part of me want to send the fringe players so that they can show us how they handle pressure and if they can make the step up. 


My away team to travel ahead 


  1. Ox
  2. Bongi
  3. Du Toit 
  4. RG
  5. Lood
  6. PSTD
  7. Kwagga
  8. Roos
  9. Williams
  10. Libbok 
  11. Moodie
  12. Esterhuizen
  13. Kriel 
  14. Arendse
  15. Willemse

We'll have the likes of Kitshoff, Marx, Malherbe and Etzebeth on the bench. With Pollard, Dud , Am and Le Roux to name a few that we can put on the bench 
My home team for Australia would be 
  1. Kittshoff
  2. Marx
  3. Malherbe
  4. Etzebeth
  5. Jenkins
  6. Van Staden 
  7. Louw
  8. Wiese  
  9. Faf
  10. Pollard
  11. Kolbe
  12. Dud
  13. Am
  14. Mpimpi
  15. Willie

The reserves for aus game could be the fringe player such as NyakaneDweebGrobbelaar Koch MostertDan Du PreezeVermeulenFourieGoosen as back up 10Robert Du Preeze Zas Reinach KrielFassiSbu Nkosi 
But I think we are bit thin at 10, centre and outside backs 

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
29 May 2023, 09:15
#2
29 May 2023, 09:15#2

It doesn't matter what the outcome of the RC is. Firstly, it's an abbreviated competition, secondly, it's at an all time low for quality. We should be working on establishing some solid combinations and start with ironing out our ailing defence. If we don't get serious about selections, then none of this will even matter either. It's about what the players are going to take into the WC. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
29 May 2023, 11:35
#3
29 May 2023, 11:35#3

Just watched a kiwi do depth analysis on the boks. Break down of how many minutes in each position.

The biggest concern is at number 6 where Kolisi took most of the minutes and now unable to play in the world cup. 

The other is Lock, number 4 to be exact. 

We also have issues at 8, 10, 12 and 13. 

De Allende has played the most minutes in the backs. 

Someone like Esterhuizen has hardly had any minutes. 

The boks wasted presious games when they chickened out of the championship. 

So we only have 5 games left to get player more game time. 

Instead both Willemse and Dud have been used in key positions as well as Frans Steyn when we could have given more minutes to other players more deserving. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
29 May 2023, 11:36
#4
29 May 2023, 11:36#4

You need to have up to 4 players in the spine of the team. 

Hooker, prop, lock, nine, 10, midfield and fullback

We only gave more opportunities to our 9s

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
29 May 2023, 12:27
#5
29 May 2023, 12:27#5

Frans won three tests in 2021 on his own. That changes the perceptions of the Boks quite a bit. Snatching victory from certain defeat. I'd rather have Frans in the squad than Damian et al. Talent > no talent. Irrespective of age. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2023, 12:46
#6
29 May 2023, 12:46#6
My split squads would be: A side 15. Willie 14 Mapimpi 13. Am 12. de Allende 11. Kolbe 10. Pollard 9. Faf 1. Kitshoff 2. Marx 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. RG Snyman 6. Kwagga 7. PSDT 8. Roos 16. Dweba 17. Gerhard Steenkamp 18. Wilco Louw 19. Ruben Schoeman 20. Dan du Preez 21. Hendrikse 22. Jantjies 23. Esterhuizen 24. Moodie 25. Vincent Tsituka 26. Koch 27. Ruan Vermaak 28. Jantjies B side: 15. Gelant 14. Nkosi 13. JVR 12. Willemse 11. Arendse 10. Libbok 9. Williams 1. Ox 2. Mbonambi 3. Thomas du Toit 4. Jenkins 5. Lood 6. Buthelezi 7. JL du Preez 8. Wiese 16. Grobelaar 17. Mchunu 18. Sadie 19. Ruben v Heerden 20. Elrigh Louw 21. Nohamba 22. Goosen 23. Dan du Plessis 24. Fassi 25. Papier 26. Ruan Venter 27. Moerat 28. Rickus Pretorious
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2023, 14:31
#7
29 May 2023, 14:31#7
With our players split all over the world, we urgently need to build our A team, which lost to Ireland and France in NH conditions 6 months ago. These guys need to travel together, train together and play together.
The only thing that matters this year is the WC. Not playing our A team away only reduces precious p reparation minutes.
AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
29 May 2023, 16:00
#8
29 May 2023, 16:00#8

Dave, you cannot be serious about the two Jantjies in your "A" side.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2023, 16:03
#9
29 May 2023, 16:03#9
Yes I like both Jantjies - Hershel had a shit game against Munster but has been good this season Always been an Elton fan
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
29 May 2023, 16:12
#10
29 May 2023, 16:12#10

At 9, it comes down to Hendrickse and Reinach. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2023, 16:23
#11
29 May 2023, 16:23#11
Oh what utter crap - Faf walks it. Reinach has a piss poor service with his few steps before passing I like Hendrikse but Williams is the new shining light with his unbelievable pace Nohamba has been awesome for the Lions Papier has been in good form for the Bulls as was Zak Burger before Jake inexcusably dumped him Morne vd Bergh is good for the Lions as well Jantjies has rediscovered his form this year We have so much depth at 9 Add Ivan v Zyl of Saracens
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
29 May 2023, 16:28
#12
29 May 2023, 16:28#12

Reinach is at his very best. He is the best distributor of the lot. Faf is a crabber, and couldn't hit a strong pass if all he had to do was walk up and hand it over to a teammate. Faf has always had very poor skills. He used to be fast, energetic and disruptive on defence. Now, he looks podgy and petulant. He is a nuisance to the cause. Faf is currently a poor man's Januarie. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2023, 21:15
#13
29 May 2023, 21:15#13
Stop speaking shit - Reinach’s distribution is piss poor it’s the very reason Saints dropped him to the bench His strength is his pace in general play Faf is by far our best 9 as he proved in the WC and EOYT
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
29 May 2023, 21:21
#14
29 May 2023, 21:21#14

He was wonky with the boot in the WC. Faf is the weakest of our 9s for skills. Reinach was only a runner when he came onto the scene, but he has been very good for the Boks. Faf's last effective season as a disruptor was 2018. The Boks in general looked fitter. Faf certainly looks much then in comparison to now. Forward, low velocity passes that drift behind the runner is a Faf staple. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2023, 21:57
#15
29 May 2023, 21:57#15
No Faf has the best skills of the lot he was a major reason we won that WC At the time he was rated the best 9 in the game and rightly so You are ignorant
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
30 May 2023, 08:20
#16
30 May 2023, 08:20#16

Faf the major reason? 

We won because of a very fortuitous path, Louw against Wales, Thor, Mostert, Frans and above all... Beast.

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
31 May 2023, 10:07
#17
31 May 2023, 10:07#17

I do feel that we need clear definitions of who is our number 1 and which players are 50/50. Let’s be honest about Steyn and Vermeulen.   Both are over 35, both have had a long list of injuries and Frans hasn’t played decent first class game in over 2 years. He was a great impact player. These players took up a lot of minutes. Nienaber missed a trick last year in trying to get more experience and game time. We have some players that hog all the minutes. We have Willemse and Steyn at 10 and centre. De Allende with more 75% of the midfield. We need at least two more players in each position with more than 200 minutes on the field. So, no, Nienaber and Rassie fucked up. 

Here is my ranking list

  1. Kittshof, Ox, Du Toit
  2. Marx, Bongi, Grobbler, Dweeb
  3. Malherbe, Koch, Wilcow Louw
  4. Etzebeth, RG, Jenkins, Vermeulen 
  5. Lood, Mostert, Nortje 
  6. Coetzee, Kwagga, Fourie, Van Staden
  7. PSTD, Louw, J Du Preez
  8. Wiese, Roos, Liebenberg 
  9. Faf, Williams, Reinach, Hendriks, Nohamba 
  10. Pollard, Libbok, Robert Du Preez 
  11. Kolbe, Arendse, Fassi
  12. Dud Allende, Esterhuizen, Dan Du Preez
  13. Am, Rohan JVR, Jessie Kriel, Henco Van Wyk 
  14. Mpimpi, Moodie, Zas, 
  15. Le Roux, Gelant, Willemse 
I’m almost feel that our best starting 15 should stay at home, play Australia. Then send our 2nd best to New Zealand. Our 3rd best can be used as substitutes in both games. This will give a squad of 45 players ample game time in the first 2 test. Our 1 and 2 will get 60 min at least and our 3rd choice can get anything between 1 to 60 or even more depending on injury. 
It will also give the number 2 a real good test against the All Blacks and if the reserve to push for a starting spot. 
Players on my number 2 list have started at test. So it won’t be a real B team.
But this means that there will be no bomb squad. Don’t think it works in any case now that teams have figured it out


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
31 May 2023, 12:17
#18
31 May 2023, 12:17#18
My ranking would be: 15. Willie / Gelant / Fassi 14. Mapimpi / Nkosi / Moodie / Tambwe / Zas 13. Am / Kriel / JVR / Xamlashe 12. de Allende / Willemse / Esterhuizen / Dan du Plessis / Serfontein 11. Kolbe / Arendse / Senatla 10. Pollard / Libbok / Jantjies / Goosen 9. Faf / Williams / Hendrikse / Nohamba / Jantjies / Papier 1. Kitshoff / Ox / Gerhard Steenkamp 2. Marx / Mbonambi / Dweba / Grobelaar 3. Malherbe / Thomas du Toit / Wilco Louw / Sadie 4. Etzebeth / Jenkins / Ruben Schoeman/ Ruan Vermaak 5. RG Snyman / Lood / Ruben v Heerden / JD Schickerling 6. Kolisi / Kwagga / Buthelezi / v Staaden 7. PSDT / JL du Preez / Vincent Tsituka / Ruan Venter 8. Roos / Dan du Preez / Wiese / Elrigh Louw/ Emmanuel Tsitsika / Marcel Coetzee
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
31 May 2023, 18:21
#19
31 May 2023, 18:21#19
Serfontein can cover 12 and 13, and do so arguably better than the incumbents. Esterhuizen rounds out the midfield with Am. Kriel can cover a variety of positions. I don't believe in first, second, third teams. There is your first team, and everything else that supports it in some way.
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
31 May 2023, 20:13
#20
31 May 2023, 20:13#20
Kriel seriously??? Not one of you that actually pick Kriel in his teams, has ever highlighted any evidence of his worth in the Bok setup….maybe he was worth something 10 years ago, but now he is a waste of space.
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
31 May 2023, 20:16
#21
31 May 2023, 20:16#21

He has a higher strike rate than Am at centre, and can be very good in the air. 

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
31 May 2023, 20:32
#22
31 May 2023, 20:32#22
Higher strike rate than Am?? Was it last season or maybe 2 Seasons ago? He “ Can “ be good in the air doesn’t mean that he is good in the air now…..I have watch endless video material of the boks with him @ centre and absolutely nothing….I must be blind…but on the contrary i saw his defence blunders and his lack of running into space or even seeing anything around him…I say again 10 to 15 years ago, but at the moment his spot can be given to many more worthy, younger inform players.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
01 Jun 2023, 02:49
#23
01 Jun 2023, 02:49#23
Kriel is hopeless! Just about the very first backline movement in the semifinal vs the ABs in 2015, Kriel gets put into a yawning gap. What does he do? Freezes and runs straight into a stationary Ben Smith who was the last line of defence. Never even attempted a sidestep. The movement ended right there!!
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Jun 2023, 12:46
#24
01 Jun 2023, 12:46#24

Would it be disrespectful to send the following team to NZ and do we think we could beat them? 

  1. Ox / Du Toit
  2. Bongi / Dweeb
  3. Koch / Nyakane / Louw 
  4. Jenkins 
  5. RG / Mostert 
  6. Fourie / van Staden 
  7. Louw / Jean Luc
  8. Roos / Vermeulen 
  9. Williams / Reinach
  10. Libbok / Goosen 
  11. Arendse
  12. Esterhuizen
  13. Kriel
  14. Moodie
  15. Gelant / Willemse 

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
01 Jun 2023, 17:05
#25
01 Jun 2023, 17:05#25

Kriel doesn't have problem finding space, quite the contrary, but he will never see the offload, or the free man around him. That's a problem. His defence is a tad below Am in 2018, and Am did distance himself further in 2019. However, last year, Am was very poor. The gap between them is not very big. Kriel is still good in the air. He is fast, and plays with intensity. In last year's attack, Kriel would have been more effective. Kriel's strike rate is 25.5, Am's 19.4. Something to consider. Neither one could be said to be great on defence right now. Hence why I'd have Serfontein in the squad. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Jun 2023, 19:29
#26
01 Jun 2023, 19:29#26

Kriel scored a number of tries in Japan this season. He is a strong runner and a solid tackler. You wouldn't expect your 13 to be catching many high balls. 

Am was injured and then got pulled out of the URC games for the bok resting protocol.

But he hasn't played that well at all even all the journos rave about him. 

He does smart passes and good runner and was the best 13 in the world but I think Gary Ring rose is light years ahead at the moment on comparison based on his performance in the URC and recent 6 nations.

I wonder if Moody will ever be shifted to 13. Apparently that is his real position. He is a great tackler and what I've seen, really strong in defense. 

Where as Mpimpi is an extreme poor defender and was the single reason why we lost to the all blacks in the world cup

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
01 Jun 2023, 19:49
#27
01 Jun 2023, 19:49#27

Am should be the best in the world, but he has never held that distinction. For some reason, people think the Bok attack was good last year. That Am was one of the best players in the world last year; they weren't, and he wasn't. Sadly, Am is one of numerous players under Erasputin who have regressed. Pollard, Marx, Willie, Mapimpi, even Eben last season. We aren't seeing the best of our best players. 

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
01 Jun 2023, 20:17
#28
01 Jun 2023, 20:17#28
Good for Kriel that he is doing so Well in Japan….how come this Form is not going over to when he is playing for the Boks ? Not to insult Rugby in Japan, but that compared to test Rugby is night and Day….He is not succeeding on Test level at the moment….we’ll it actually doesn’t matter as Tassie will pick him in the Squad regardless of his Form…Favouritism overrides Merit selection…Tassie Style : )
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
01 Jun 2023, 20:26
#29
01 Jun 2023, 20:26#29

Japanese rugby requires better fitness and it's more sophisticated than SH domestic rugby for the past decade. Kriel has his moments. He isn't a total write-off. Since 2021, he isn't that far off Am. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
02 Jun 2023, 08:40
#30
02 Jun 2023, 08:40#30

I think that Japan has finally sorted out their professional league. Players are no longer employees of a big Conglomerate. All players are now professional, those old corporate teams still exist but they have dropped down to the 3rd tier. 

There is some quality foreign players in the team and it looks like they are getting more players from abroad. Japan is on the up for a number of years now. They’ve beaten the boks and won their pool. Booting Ireland out of the previous World Cup. 

Them, really like that their season is only 5 months, leaves ample time for international rugby. The way rugby should be played 

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
03 Jun 2023, 14:38
#31
03 Jun 2023, 14:38#31

The Japanese rugby benefits our players. Before Esterhuizen went to Japan, he was just a blindside flank, but they encouraged and trained skills, and he became the premier 12 in SA for the past 8 years. They round out our natural inclination for primitive ape rugby. Such as that seen from Willemse, Damian, Kolisi, Steph, Faf, Lood, and numerous other forwards and backs. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
06 Jun 2023, 14:34
#32
06 Jun 2023, 14:34#32

I read an interesting article today where they were talking about which squad to send to NZ. Something I overlooked was that SA uses NZ as a morale booster. No matter the result of other games and that if gives the coaches immunity. 

So the reasoning is to send the best 15 to NZ like in the previous World Cup year and try to get a win. 

The only difference is that we have an Eddie Jones team and as we know it it. Eddie is not someone that lanes down when embarrassed. Especially since we beat his team to win the World Cup and that his last and final game was a loss against the boks. So he is probably planning some revenge like he did with Japan.

So it really spice up who should stay and who should go to NZ. 

My only other concern is march sharpness. None of the players would have had a chance to play a test match and Aus is the only test prior to when we travel. So the boks either need to arrange a couple of warm up games, and soon or run the risk of going into a test match cold against the All Blacks. 

It does change my line up for Aus and New Zealand.

So I’m thinking 

Vs Aus

  1. Ox / ? Mchunu 
  2. Bongi / Dweeb 
  3. Du Toit / Koch 
  4. RG
  5. Jenkins / Orie (not a fan)
  6. Van Staden
  7. Mostert / Louw
  8. Roos
  9. Williams / Reinach 
  10. Libbok / Goosen 
  11. Arendse
  12. Esterhuizen / RJVR 
  13. Kriel
  14. Moodie 
  15. Willemse / Gelant 
New Zealand 
  1. Kittshof 
  2. Marx
  3. Malherbe
  4. Etzebeth 
  5. Lood
  6. Kwagga
  7. PSDT
  8. Wiese
  9. Faf
  10. Pollard
  11. Kolbe
  12. De Allende 
  13. Am 
  14. Mpimpi 
  15. Le Roux 


DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Jun 2023, 14:38
#33
06 Jun 2023, 14:38#33

Your NZ team is weaker. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
23 Jun 2023, 08:06
#34
23 Jun 2023, 08:06#34

So now that we know the squad and that Rassie has confirmed that they will be splitting the squad again. The question remains who should stay in SA and who should go to New Zealand. 

If SA wants to win this game then we need to win at least 2 games if not all three. NZ will be hard in NZ, we've beaten them at home but they have a really strong and settled team. 

Should we keep our starting Boks at home and let them skip the trip to NZ completely and look to win all of our home games? 

Do we use the All Black game to test BMT of certain players. 

SA use the All Black games normally as a confidence booster to prep for the World Cup. You beat the all blacks and then on your way. But the All Blacks haven't won any junior champs for some time now and I'm not sure if they are the same force as they once were. 

I would also consider keeping our starters fresh and at home and avoid the travel all together. I would keep my best 15 at home and let them play at home. We have an away game in NZ and an away game in Argentina. So I'll let the young guys travel and let the old guys rest up. Then there is Wales and another game against NZ at Twickenham as the final warm up games. 

I would keep 15 at home, pick 7 as subs, those 7 would be subs in both home and away games and the other 15 remain in NZ. So only fly out with 10 additional players. 

Home Test

  1. Kitshoff
  2. Marx
  3. Malherbe
  4. Etzebeth
  5. Lood
  6. Kwagga
  7. PSDT
  8. Wiese
  9. De Klerk
  10. Jantjies (Libbok needs a baptism of fire in NZ to test his mettle)
  11. Mpimpi 
  12. De Allende 
  13. Am
  14. Kolbe
  15. Le Roux
Away Test team

  1. Ox
  2. Bongi
  3. Nyakane 
  4. RG
  5. Klein 
  6. Van Staden
  7. Du Preez
  8. Roos
  9. Jantjies
  10. Libbok 
  11. Moodie 
  12. Esterhuizen
  13. Kriel
  14. Arendse
  15. Willemse 
For my bench I would have

  1. Dweeb
  2. Du Toit
  3. Kock
  4. Mostert
  5. Vermeulen 
  6. Williams 
  7. Libbok / Jantjies 
  8. Willemse / Le Roux 
  9. (We only have 2 fit flyhalves in the squad, so Pollard is still recovering. May only be fit for the home test against Argentina )
 

BO
Boorad1Club Pro106 posts
23 Jun 2023, 11:04
#35
23 Jun 2023, 11:04#35

I think you guys are really underestimating Klein. I would have him any day over Jenkins and probably over Lood.  

Klein got a very bad rap after the last world cup and hasn't got called in again for Ireland.  There is a very Leinster centric focus in the Irish squad supported by a very Dublin centric media.  Second and third string players in Leinster regularly get called in ahead of starters for the other provinces.  

Klein is the player of the year for Munster and has improved enormously with his offload and general game since the new coaching staff came in at the start of the season.  Klein is never dropped, never injured, not very flashy but does the hard graft in the centre of the ruck really well.   They moved Tadgh Beirne to no 6 and peter o'mahony to 7 so they could have him and RG in the second row.  Tadgh was in the world 15 team this year.  He is one of the first names on the Irish squad.  Jenkins is mostly a sub for Leinster, injury prone and goes missing in the big games.    From a Munster perspective we are really unhappy he is joining SA.  It causes difficulties with the IRFU because we are limited to the number of non irish qualified players particularly in the 
Rassie knows Klein and I would not be surprised if he is a surprise addition to the WRC squad.   Not flashy but damn good.  




DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jun 2023, 17:49
#36
23 Jun 2023, 17:49#36

What I would give to see Klein and RG run out for my WP...the Stormers would conquer the world with such a second row...

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