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Springboks - Player assessments

Started by clevermike17 REPLIES279 VIEWS· 24 Aug 2014, 12:06
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Aug 2014, 12:06
#1
24 Aug 2014, 12:06#1

The following represents my assessments of the Performance of players:-


15   -   Willie le Roux   He was good in most things he had fone - but at time overdid kicking which was not always accurate enough and made some kicking errors -   7,5/10


14   -   Cornal Hendricks - Scored a try - but was seriously deficient in defense - 5,5/10


13   -  Damian de Allende - Had some strong ball carries - but lost balls in possession - because of deficient support from other players  -   5,5/10


12   -  Jean de Villiers -  Profuced nothing of value in attack and was questionabe in defense as well -   4,5/10


11   -   Bryan Habana   - He scored a good try through speed by following up on a kick. but showed  serious defects in defense -  6/10


10   -  Handre Pollard  - Did well enough considering the poor service he got - foal kicking 100% - but showed some inccurate kicking and  lost one ball in trying to catch a high kick -  5.5/10


9    -   Ruan Pienaar  -   Did well in dribbling the ball forward - which led to the Habana try - for the rest he was seriosuly defective in his kicking game and he destroyed one promising attacking move - 4/10


8    -  Duane Vermeulen  -  Strong ball carries and defense - the best Springbok player on display - 8/10


7    -   Juan Smith  - He was seriously deficienmt in both defense and attack - was largely invisible -   3/10


6    -   Francois Louw -  Had a quiet game and did not do well enough in breakdown situations -   5,5/10


5    -   Lodewyk de Jager   - solid in line-outs and strong in Tighty 5 play - but missed sme tackles and ned to improve on defense -   6/10


4   -    Eben Etzebeth  -  Strong in line outs and in Tight 5 play  - 7/10


3  -    Jannie du Plessis - Disgustingly  poor in scrumming and totally ineffective outside of scrumming as well -  2/10


2  -     Bismarck du Plessis -  Suffered from very poor support by his props  - rather ineffective  in the rest of his game -   5/10


1   -    Gurthro Steenkamp -  Disgustingly  poor in scrumming and totally ineffective outside of scrumming as well -  2/10


16   -   Adriaan Strauss   -   Did well in defense and attacking play -  Did well in scrumming and in teh rolling maul leading to a scrum being scored - 7/10


17   -   Tendai Mtawarire   -  Was solid in scrums and in Tight 5 play -  6.5/10


18   -   Frans Malherbe  -   Reasonably solid in scrumming - was penalized once for scrumming when his opponent was clearly scrumming inwards - solid in defense - 6/10


19   -    Bakkies Botha -  Did nothing of significance when he came on - gave away a penalty that could easwily have let to defeat -  3/10


20   -    Marcell Coetzee  - Excellent performance  - bioth in defense and attackig play -  8/10


21   -    Francois Hougaard  -   Good service and showed some initiative in play - 7/10


22   -    Morne Steyn -  Solid in goal kicking - but made a serious mistake in kicking a ball directly into touch when he should have passed the ball putting the Springboks under pressure - 5,5/10


The weaknesses in the team was clearly identified as being deficiencies at scrummie, no 7 and the props.   


BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
24 Aug 2014, 12:46
#2
24 Aug 2014, 12:46#2
 Easy: 
Gurthro was shit, Bismarck needs to wake up as he was shown up by Strauss in all facets of the game today. Jannie needs to piss off as Malherbe and Beast steadied the scrums. Lood De Jager is living on his Scotland game. He needs to make way. Etzebeth carried strongly but his work rate needed to be higher as old man Bakkies showed both locks what is required in intensity to pull a game out of the fire. Louw was shit by his standards, Juan Smith might as well still have been at home in France and showed us just how valuable Willem Alberts is to the Boks game..Vermuelen was good. Coetzee was absolutely sublime and he should never have been on the bench this game..
In the backs, Pienaar was his usual pedestrian self. Hougaard, whom I am not a believer in, came in today and showed glimpses of what the Boks miss at 9. He controlled the ball well around the breakdowns (and believe me the Argies were making it tough around there) and got some good passes away. Pollard was quiet. Morne Steyn showed the world yet again that he is the best flyhalf in SA currently. He and Hougaard got those backs going a lot better and without them, we would have lost as opposed to claw our way back! Habana tried hard with few chances and could have had a double and sealed the bonus point had Willie's chip been one of his usual pinpoint ones. JDV was outclassed by De Allende on attack but De Allende did himself no favours by chucking the ball away every time he had just made some good metres and was brought down by the defence. He needs to sort that shit out. Cornal Hendricks played with his usual passion and chased everything. I thought Willie could have backed himself more instead of kick it away. His strength is his ability to find holes and break through defensive lines but he is not playing to his strengths often enough.
All round, we will take the win. Its not easy against a very good Argies team who has spent many years together now and all their players are playing top level rugby in Europe so they are no muppets but what i would like to see moving forward is the Argies play the AB's and Aussies first up. Once again, Pablo Matera and Landajo, two key figures, limped off injured so everytime we play them, we get them fresh with their best players. Everytime AB's and Aus get them, their lack of depth is exposed and they are battered and bruised. I guarantee that if Aus gets them first up, the Pumas will record a win..They wont beat the AB's but they will beat the Aussies if they are fresh, passionate and full strength as they are when we play them!
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
24 Aug 2014, 14:08
#3
24 Aug 2014, 14:08#3
 you will never see them play argies first up they know that we and them will go full tilt at each other and they will have less from a more tired argie side that lacks the conditioning for a full campaign.

blikkies you sayid so much right there. i agree with pretty much everything. id just like to add that strauss has outclassed bissie for years now. people are only starting to notice now there are scrumming issues, but he never added as much in general play. strass is strong, faster and more mobile on defence, a cleaner more effective balll carrier and has way better hands and better leader.

jean has always been a stooge. bhe used to be a great defender at least but even thats going now. i dont rate him as a leader either and theres no other reason ever to justify selecting him other than injury to better payers. we may as well have played serfontein to be honest.

willie's first instinct is to chip over the top, he does it so well that he usualy gets away with it but in a really tough physical test he will back off and kick more thats his only really problem. kirchner may not be as good as willie but he is a very hard runner in contact so i think that might have been a good option on the bench just in case you need more punch. the boks used that in 2012 and 2013 to punch it up out wide or set the wings away and it was pretty effective. i think meyre dropped the ball on that one.

de allende is looking much better than the other clowns. i think if we let him settle he could make a believer out of me. he has had two very tough tests to start in. i dont think it would have been any harder against new zealand or australia to be honest. totally test rugby to the core, not easy defensive holes freak running games.

best bok players for me were duane, louw, morne, willie and hougaard. shame juan got so little ball i thought he could have been effective carrying. maybe pienaar is stuck in shove it to duane mode? hahahaha. this guy must be the #1 8 on the earth right now. he has developed into such a rounded player. whe he started in 2012 he was just another spies and i was really disappointed but man i think we are so much weaker without him now. he really gives 100% in every test no matter what happens on the field. i like these guys who deliver no matter what.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Aug 2014, 14:34
#4
24 Aug 2014, 14:34#4
 Gonzo
I do agree with most of what you said - but Juan was no good and he showed nothing of the player he used to be.   I think you left out Marcelkl Coetzee of your list of best players though.
I am still worried about Morne though - that silly kick out of touch was showing that he still does not know when to kick and when to pass - and it did  put the Boks under undue pressure.   In the main for that reason would not put him on the list of best players.
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
24 Aug 2014, 14:59
#5
24 Aug 2014, 14:59#5
 juan had little chance only 2 balls and made all his tackles. you cant say he isnt good enough on that basis.

morne chose the right option just didnt land it correctly.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Aug 2014, 15:37
#6
24 Aug 2014, 15:37#6

Willie made a crucial mistake in the Bargie's  try.

 

De Allende lost ball, should have been carded and was terribly aligned on the left wing try. He never forces the play inside....the primary reason Bargie found so much space outside our defence.

 

Jean got the ball 5 times in the game. He ran twice for 9 metres. He missed no tackles. When the Bargie scored Jean was trying to push him out, but de Allende was on the other side keeping him in.

 

 

Hendricks score a magician's try.

 

Pienaar was fine behind a well beaten pack, Hougaard

did nothing better

 

Morne saved the test....a match winner. Pollard had a solid outing, he will be our next 10 and a great one.

 

Steenkamp conceded no penalties and wasn't the cause of any scrum collapse. His tackle set up the Habana  try.

 

Malherbe never stayed on his feet through any scrum....he conceded a penalty even after a lot of ref help

 

Lomp missed a routine tackle for a try and missed over 40 % of his tackles....he was a non factor apart from the lineouts where he was routine

 

Louw had a huge game, making most tackles and spoiling ball

 

Coetzee had his best moments in a Bok jersey....he showed real heart in those last moments

GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
24 Aug 2014, 16:16
#7
24 Aug 2014, 16:16#7
 lood had the worst defensive stats 6/6 but jean was nowher ball in hand and had alignment issues. not any better than serfontein right now. coetzee is the real deal in my opnion jake has groomed him into a much better player, we should all be greatful!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Aug 2014, 16:32
#8
24 Aug 2014, 16:32#8

 Well he might be the real deal Gonzo, he is certainly much better than last year. But let's wait for the AB/Oz tests....I think playing against the lies of Hooper and McCaw will tell us. In the Saders match a few weeks back he was a non factor.

 

Disagree with Jean being out of alignment. Look at that left wing try....you will see a SHALLOW V in our defence. The point of the V being de Allende, he is two paces behind Jean. When Fury defendes he tends to be a bit ahead of Jean making the pass difficult.

 

 

You have to love the OOM's comment about de Alllende losing the ball because of insufficient support. HM must be worried about 13 for Oz/NZ

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Aug 2014, 16:42
#9
24 Aug 2014, 16:42#9
 The Argies were very very good. If they can keep up this kind of performances, they are going to claim a scalp in the RC sooner rather than later.
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
24 Aug 2014, 16:51
#10
24 Aug 2014, 16:51#10
 argentina are streaks ahead of australia right now. if they can just sustain that intensity for a couple of games. the sanzar bozos vlearly planned the schedule out to negate them. by the time tgey play aus and nz at home they are all tapped out and with nothibg to play for. and we get them fresh and ready to rumble. its a crock of shhittz. sane schedule THREE years in a row too, come on now!
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
24 Aug 2014, 16:53
#11
24 Aug 2014, 16:53#11
 mozart you got a point about that one but in general de allende is offering far more than jean right now and thats the bigger picture. id be more eorried about jean than de allende for tge all blacks tests.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Aug 2014, 17:04
#12
24 Aug 2014, 17:04#12
 Mozart
Go and look at the Rugby365 ratings as well.  They largely agrees with me
"De Allende lost ball, should have been carded and was terribly aligned on the left wing try."  The player who was out of alignement in the case of the try was De Villiers.   De Allende could have been carded - but eh was not and to throw thata round as a reason was as rubbishy as the rest of your argument is.   All-in-all DE Allende perform,ed much better than De Villiers did.   

"Pienaar was fine behind a well beaten pack, Hougaard did nothing better".  Which game did you watch?  Certainly not the one played yesterday.  Pienaar's service was pathetically slow and his kicking worse.


"Morne saved the test....a match winner."   Morne is a miracle - he kicked well at goal - but like last Saturday he fouled up again.  That kick out of touch that put the Springboks under pressure was not acceptable.  


"Steenkamp conceded no penalties and wasn't the cause of any scrum collapse. His tackle set up the Habana  try."   Sure thjere was no collapse on his side of th scrum - but the scrums went back at pace on both sides while he and Jannie was on the field of play - Pathetic performance.   Both Jannie and Steenkamp was BS - Jannie just slightly worse so.


"Malherbe never stayed on his feet through any scrum....he conceded a penalty even after a lot of ref help."   You are a bad liar - the first two wscrums won by the Springboks were when Malherbe and Beast were the props - the rest were utter disfraces.


"You have to love the OOM's comment about de Alllende losing the ball because of insufficient support. HM must be worried about 13 for Oz/NZ"   When De Allende made two runs were there any players to support him and do ball protectction?  None at all - De Villiers wer nowhere - neither were the wings  


Forget about the real problems yesterday?  They were the pathetic props and some reputaion players that was a disgrace.   You need to eb assured of srcum and breakfown balls to perform and there were nearly zero of those.   


 

   




CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Aug 2014, 21:06
#13
24 Aug 2014, 21:06#13
We have a massive fit about a kick that was too deep. We have no issue about the following:

Willie le Roux has three guys next to him and an overlap and he decides to kick. The kick is not out and it is kicked back. Then, with no support, he decides to run and the nett result...... drop kick and three points for Arg. That was one example.

Not too long ago, we were told that we suffered in the scrums because we had Bakkies and Matfield at lock. Yesterday we had Lood and Eben and the matters were even worse. It is easy to say that it would have been worse with the two of them on the field but that is still only speculation. What is not speculation is the fact that we were told that we had to have Lood and Eben against the Argies otherwise we would kak in the scrums.............
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Aug 2014, 21:25
#14
24 Aug 2014, 21:25#14
 Cerudunce windpomp a very simple error of logic here. Why are you assuming the problems faced in the scrum re the Argies were equivalent to those faced against Wales.
Did you note how solid Beast was. How much better Malherbe was. How much more lively and energetic Strauss was. Also if you still think a 106 kg lock s going to outscrum a 125 kg lock you are dafter than a hatter. 
Did you watch the game cerundunce?
Mike is being a bit hard on Morne.
Unless it is shown that the Argies were scrumming illegally - a possibility - Guthro could be at an end. Is Bakkies more able than Willemse? Matfiled must go. Is Juan going to make it - didnt look like it but another chance? Jean deserves further chances. Any news re Malherbe?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Aug 2014, 21:59
#15
24 Aug 2014, 21:59#15
Malherbe better...I must believing in a parallel universe.  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Aug 2014, 23:56
#16
24 Aug 2014, 23:56#16
 Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11548 RE: Springboks - Player assessments
August 24, 2014, 19:25:17  Cerudunce windpomp a very simple error of logic here. Whyare you assuming the porblesm faced in the scrum re the argies was equivalent to thsoe faced against Wales.
Did you note how solid Beast was. How much better Malherbe was. How much more lively and energetic Strauss was. Also if you still think a 106 kg lock s going to outscrum a 125 kg lock youare dafter than a hatter. 
Did you watch the game cerundunce.
Mike is being a bit hard on Morne.
Unless it is shown that the Argies were scrumming illegally - a possibility - Guthro could be at an end. Is bakkies more able than Willemse. Matfiled must go. Is Juan going to make it - didnt look like it but another chance? Jean deserves further chances. Any news re Malherbe?



Typical selective assessment, just like ou Maaikie. When Matfield and/or Bakkies is playing the problems with the scrums is his/their fault. When he/they are not playing and we get shoved moertoe, it is not the fault of the locks.

If Steenkamp was so useless, why was he not penalised once? In the test against Wales, Steenkamp was also not penalised, he scrummed straight and had no problems, with Matfield behind him. Beast was no more solid than Steenkamp and he did not do as much in defence as Steenkamp. Steenkamp played only ten minutes longer than Beats, yet he put in five tackles, compared to Beast's one tackle.

Nee Boet, you guys should take of your biased blinkers when you watch the games.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Aug 2014, 00:48
#17
25 Aug 2014, 00:48#17
Really all the ratings I have seen show Jannie and guthro as having performed badly. It stopped when Beast, Malherbe and Strauss came on. So why blame the two 125 kg locks.Bwahahahaha get real cerudunce windpomp. we all know they Etzebeth and Loodt are good scrummagers.
Be thankful wee matfiled and Bakkies didnt start as we would defintely have lost. Imagine having a skinny stringbean  "lock" 3 kg  heavier than brussouw and 37 years old. hahhahahahahahahaha need I say more. Loonie tunes!!
The ONLY question is were Guthro and Jannie  affected by illegal Argie scrumming. We need expert specialist input here. Dr Venter accused the Argies of illegal scrumming - he would know and would nt say that lightly. Unfortunately any such accusations now might sound like sour grapes. But what is the truth? No kbbs I said what is the truth not your fictions. 

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
25 Aug 2014, 05:51
#18
25 Aug 2014, 05:51#18
 Beanhead, I've heard there is an old saying“If you keep your head when everybody around you are loosing theirs, maybe, just maybe you misunderstood the situation”. 
— END OF THREAD —

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