Stade Francais = Toulouse Match

 Aaaaaag fok, hier gaan ons al weer. You are quite correct that Morne was on the bench. I have, after all, told you so. Go read my post, poepol. The rest is just your opinion, and you know  what I think  of your  opinion. The one moment Plisson is average, then he is God's gift to mankind, then average again then......................... All just depending on what suits your agenda of the day. Gaan pis en gaan rus ou Vaalseun.

 Mike, Steyn suits the boks' gameplan like a glove. If you don't like it, start supporting a different team until it evolves to your liking. A different 10 won't do squat if the whole game plan does not change, and for that to happen, quite a few other changes need to be made as well. We are neither NZ nor France, it's time you except that.

DBdraad
What game plan are so unique that only the Springboks use it?   I think it is rather a case where we got used to mediocrity at fllyhalf and that it suddenly became the game plan.
Ultimately any game plan depends on ability to implem ent the plan and in the final analysis we lose crucial tests or struggle in tests because of the so-called game plan.   

 Dof doos
The fact of the matter was that Steyn was on the bench = if he was of any value in any of their games he would have come on earlier than 2 minutes before the end.   That shows how low his taing is with the Club - they have bno confidence in him at all.
Plisson had a good game and the message here is that he did better than Morne could ever have done.  The difference is between a flyhalf with ball sense and one without it. In any event  even an average fyhalf on club level is better than Morne Steyn/   

That is so typical of ou Kontklont. You will harp on about this one game in particular. What about those where Plisson was warming the bench with Steyn on the park. Want to go back to the thread where I gave you that info? The one where you disappeared from, with your tail  between your legs, like you normally do when  you get shown up?

My thoughts on Morne - he has been selected as the incumbent flyhalf by two different Bok coaches, has won the World Cup, was the starting flyhalf for the Bulls during the most dominant stretch any South African Super 15 franchise has had, is in the top 5 all-time in numerous Springbok and Super Rugby statistical categories, has demonstrated remarkable durability, is rated highly by most commentators on the sport in both hemispheres, played at a consistently high level (apart from a lapse in 2012) and has conducted himself with class at all times.

At the very least that deserves appreciation and respect from any Bok supporter regardless of whether you like his style of play. If any of us had achieved an equivalent level of success in our respective professions we would have considered it an absolute success.

 Kontklont...now that's a fitting name Ceradyne. Lets just look at a few things Kontklont.It is now 18 months till the RWC 2015.The other ten are shit...Goosen is made of glass and Bambie is crocked,Bosshoff has no experience in international rugby at test level and the rest are plain kak...AKA Vodacom cup super star Jantjies and Kakrekillis .Bash is a piece of shit.The only other ten playing fairly well injury free is JLP and He is. BULL...So,what ever you might think Kontklont...Morne Steyn will be wearing the number ten jersey for the Boks.Even if he carries water for Stade Francaise .He has the most experience,is a solid goal kicker and is injury free. You and Saffuck/assfuck lol have unrealistic and fairy tale concepts of what a fly half should be doing.You are making it the holy grail of Bok rugby.We have never had an exceptional ten.Butch was probably the closest followed by Honiball.Who else...Kaas...Van Straat af....Koen....De Beer....all very low key to be honest. Anyway Klontkont good luck living in your Alice in wonder land of rugby.And btw...Ceradyne was RIGHT...you did disappear on that thread where he owned your bitch ass like a jail lover from Wahbash.You had no reply so you watch one game hopping to trump him.LOL do you realize how thick as pig shit you are?

oi-matey
I am a bit confused here - Morne involved in winning the World Cup?  He was not involved in the 2007 WC - so you may have stretched it a bit.
I do respect Morne is a person - by all accounts a modest gentleman.  He has one element I would always respect - and that is his goal kicking.  To maintain an 80% success rate at kicking at goal is excellent,
However,  there are elements of his game where I believe he is selling Springbok rugby short and those elements are to my mind not really to the advantage of the Springboks at all.  Here the main problem relates to predictability in particular and to a lesser extent problematic implementation. 
        

oimatey Morne Steyn got his first cap in 2009, in the 2nd test against the British Lions. So unless he was playing for the All Blacks in 2011, he has not won a world cup!
Pdivvy actually got GATFOLL of Morne and allmost dropped him for the 2011 World Cup. At one point Morne was playing fullback to keep his boot on the field. 
Most of Morne Steyns best performances have been behind a totally dominant pack, either at the boks or Bulls. Also, he typically plays much better when FDP is at 9, although many flyhalfs would do so as well.
At this point so close to the next world cup, their is Lambie and Goosen that have been given some game time other than Morne. Morne will be on the plane, so at this stage unlikely that anyone else will be in with a shout. 
Maybe the new Bulls 10 journey man flyhalf will have a small shot, or Maritz Boushoff.Or Meyer could throw a surprise and start Frans Steyn at 10, with Jean and Fourie at centres

oimatey Morne Steyn got his first cap in 2009, in the 2nd test against the British Lions. So unless he was playing for the All Blacks in 2011, he has not won a world cup!
Pdivvy actually got GATFOLL of Morne and allmost dropped him for the 2011 World Cup. At one point Morne was playing fullback to keep his boot on the field. 
Most of Morne Steyns best performances have been behind a totally dominant pack, either at the boks or Bulls. Also, he typically plays much better when FDP is at 9, although many flyhalfs would do so as well. 
At this point so close to the next world cup, their is Lambie and Goosen that have been given some game time other than Morne. Morne will be on the plane, so at this stage unlikely that anyone else will be in with a shout. 
Maybe the new Bulls 10 journey man flyhalf (JLP) will have a small shot, or Maritz Boushoff. Although I suspect that both these players are just in great form, JLP in particular should fall apart when he is overseas.
Or Meyer could throw a surprise and start Frans Steyn at 10, with Jean and Fourie at centres

We have only two models in recent(20 yrs) Bok history
1 Honibal/ James.
2 Morne/Jannie de Beer/ Stransky
We have never played the Oz/AB running game ala lets say Larkham and Spencer. Carter statistically is far closer to Bok rugby than one might think. When RWC 11 rolled around NZ never played wide open rugby against Oz or France....when it counted

So given our history and the NZ experience we have two choices
Option 1 with Frans
Option 2 with Morne, Boshoff or Lambie
I would like to keep both options open, both have worked and both have failed. Option 3 represented by Goosen has never been tried but requires the whole team to change...it's not going to happen.

Mozart Carter was injured before the semis and finals. I would not really classify him as closer to the kicking or running flyhalf, he is just an all rounder who usually takes the right options. 
After 2009 he did kick more for a territorial game for the All Blacks , although the Crusaders have allways had the best pack in New Zealand and this has allowe them to also play a kicking game, along with a runnin game

Whoops - wasn't thinking straight getting a little carried away. Sorry fellas. Edited post. 

 Actually one of t he fellows on Supersupporter did a nice analysis of Carter and Morne in terms of kicking..it was much closer than one would have thought. There is little debate that Carter had much more running talent....but it wasn't always deployable.

Boks got the balance pretty much right in 2013 imo. Not so much on the EOYT but that was probably due to the different competitive environment they were facing.
Meyer knows what he's doing and has a master plan that he is carrying out. Barring significant injuries Boks will be serious contenders at WC 2015 with a side that has gelled and has a clear gameplan. Night and day from what we had to endure with Snor. Now all we need is some well timed rain ......

 Mozart
You are carrying on about Francois Steyn as if he is the answer to everything.  As far as I can ascertain from your many rumblings the reasons for that weird choice are =
*   his kicking at goal; and*   his physicality
I will not dispute the first issue -  other than to say that the best goalkicker at present is in fact Marnitz Boshoff.   
It is the physicality issue where I am seriously baffled.   In t her case of physicality there are to my minds 3 elements whicj should be considered, namely =
*   defense in the channel;*   ability to carry balls and attack the gain line effectively. 
Defense
Steyn has the worst defensive record of any SA center or flyhalf at present - both on the field of play and statistically.   Up to this stage in Super 15 Steyn has made 39 tackles and missed 9 - for a missed tackle ratio of 23%.
What is more worrying is the ease with which players eun around him where he did not even attempt tackles - examples being Harris and De Klerk.   This is likely the result of lack of speed on the part of Steyn.
Defdense was never really the strong suit of Steyn - starting off with the 2007 WC - so is he going to be a reliable option from a defensive perspective?   I have serious doubts that it has been proven conclusively that Streyn has serious defense problems.   This is a problem that cannot be overcome easily and as it has been around for years - there are serious reservations abnout this component of his game.
Ball carrying
During the season in Super 15 this year there has been serious reservations about his ball carries.   Steyn has a permanent problem - he runs straight at the first defender in an endeavour to run over or through him.   He is not really successful in that and his ball carries have been ineffective with -
*  no line breaks; and*  the beating of defenders being under 2 per game played.
If Steyn does get over to the gain line the gain per carry is minimal.
Kicking game
There are positives and negatives in this case.  On the positive side he can no doubt kick balls over long distances - not always effectively I must add.   When he finds long distance touch - he really looks effecyove/
However the negative elements are -
*   that some kicks are ineffective = he failed to find touch with at least onme penalty kick and his touches with others have been ineffectvive and not with the required gain in territory.
*   His kicks are to far up-field to be effectively followed up and return kicks have nullified the impact of the kicks.  Furthermore if the kicks are over the goal line = touchdowns by opposition players are easy and not under pressure.
*   Steyn has been severely criticized by the commentators for aimless kicking - he kicked balls away instead of passing them.   This is also an old problem of his and was in evidence last year as well.
Passing Game
This really is a serious problem.   Aside from the fact that at center Steyn has had serious problems with ball hogging - in one game he made one pass to a player on his outside during the whole game - thus neutralizing the backline completely - he is not an accurate passer of balls.  Balls go astray through inaccurate and at times wild passes.  
You claim he is the most effective off-loader in tackle situations - yet there is no evidence of such in the games he played in since his return from France.   His off-loads are rare - but totally ineffective.  For instance in the five games he played this year he made two off-loads - both consisting of throwing balls back to his teammates and hoping somebody will pick ip the ball.   Steyn never draws in defenders and put players into space by off=loading balls in tackle situations. Possession Losses and Penalties
This is a nightmare element of Steyn's game.  In 5 games played this year he -
*  caused the loss of ball possession 11 times; and*  gave away 7 penalties to the opposition.
Aside from the gifting of points to opposing teams it is a negative of major proportions for the Sharks this year.   
CONCLUSION
Other than accuracy in kicking at goal - there were serious deficiencies in virtually all other components  in the game performances of Steyn.
The above indicates in the main serious deficiency in reading of the game and effectively and instinctively varying of play accordingly.  Less than a year ago on this site you wrote repeatedly on this site that Steyn should play at full back because of the decision making deficiency and that he should never be utilized at flyhalf.  What made you change your mind on that one?
You have thus far dealt only with goal kicking - mixed up with some rather controversial statements as to off-loading of balls and the physical presence issue -yet you have never even mentioned  or tried to counter the long list of very real deficiencies in the performances of Steyn.  Why not - why no comments on that?   

              
      

Mike I'm afraid you have crossed the rubicon into lala land. These endless rants are becoming tedious. Nobody is saying Fransie is definitely the answer, but several of us believe he represents an alternative that deserves to be explored. Your simplistic statistical analysis if I can call it that, and laborious finger pointing isn't going to influence anybody....save youself the bother.

 Mozart
This really is a rubbish response = indicating again the validity of the comments made by me.  Why don't you counter it - other than saying "simplistic statistical analysis".  Are there any indication that the statistics provided is in fact wrong and not reflecting what actually happened on the field of play?
You were quick to use the ESPN staistics to prove how good De Jongh was when he came onto the field last week = but the same statistics for Steyn is no simplistic and according to you unreliable.
You are entitled to your opinion - but surely you must have a factual basis for such an opinion and when people debate that opinion - you should at least make a decent effort to defend your opinion.  
People have a different opinion on other players - yet you invent reasons to run down those players and make statements that the others are stupid and not knowing what they are talking about.    
This is supposed a debating platform and members are supposed to counter arguments and not try and sidestep issues the way you did in this case.
Let me be blunt - I looked at the full all round game of Steyn and to my mind he is at this stage other than goal kicking poorer than any other center or flyhalf in SA and advocacy to have him in the Springbok team is bordering on lunacy.             

Sweet violet, sweeter than all the roses, covered all over from head to toe, covered all over in sweet violets....bring out the strait- jacket. 

 A flyhalf alone doesn't lay 'the running game', but a backline together can. You see? The perception versus the reality. How many of you realize how much time Larkham spent practicing backline moves until they were inch perfect? He knew where everyone was going to be at every given moment. He rarely attacked himself and was actually a very structured player; He is to date the best attacking 10 of the professional era. We need to learn from these players. Load our 10 with options, there is no other way. Select whom ever you will at 10, it changes not the reality.