MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 00:04#1
Only kidding another match with 16 runs, no clean breaks, one defender beaten and a paltry 26 metres gained....zero passes, zero offloads. Pure Stampkar rugby. The man is a complete fantasy. One thing he does well though is talk.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 02:42#2
Finally the Media are beginning to see the obvious, from the Daily Mail:
'8 CJ Stander - 6
Makes a lot of carries for not many metres. One who would have thought he had a Test chance at the start of the tour, but won’t get in as it stands.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-4642618/Hurricanes-31-31-Lions-PLAYER-RATINGS.html#ixzz4lFkg726r
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jun 2017, 05:47#4
Mozaart has his pet hates and repeat them on site ad infinitum - never gets tire f constant repeats of the same old stories,
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 06:02#5
Actually WD I am bemused by how this guy ever got hyped so much. His stats are incredibly constant ....about 15 runs, about 23 metres about 1 defender beaten, no offloads....maybe a pass or two. He is pretty much an extinct player..I can't think of any other loosie who still does that. He runs more like a prop or a lock.
...
Have you ever seen him in cover defence? He makes a number of tackles but all close to the breakdown. I can't think of one thing he has done on the tour in open play...attack or defence....except for one offload from the flyhalf position in one of the early games,
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jun 2017, 08:30#6
His stats is a miracle of excellence compared to those of Alberts you constantly punted in the past. So if stats is the only measure - neither Stander nor Alberts should ever have played international rugby.
At least Stander is a loosie - something Alberts never was.
I listened to the NZ commentators and they discussed Stander's performance extensively for a basis for selection for the test on Saturday. They apparently think Stander is a good loosie with one problem and that is that he does not have he ability too step opponents when carrying balls. That limits his usefulness as a loosie. I believe their assessment is very near to the problem in his performances. However, they did not rule him out insofar as selection is concerned.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 15:22#7
Alberts broke tackles...Stampkar doesn't. In any case it's funny Oom, you attack me, then agree Stampkar isn't very good. It's just a pity you supported his case so long, while I spotted his defects immediately. A bit slow on the uptake.....hahaha. But then you thought Liggies would be a great!
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jun 2017, 16:12#8
Mozart
How many since his average territory gain in Super Rugby was 1,8 meters and in tests 2,2 meters. What was his missed tackle ratio and what was his average tackle count - he was by a far distance the poorest loosie ever to play for the Springboks.
Alberts was useless in ball protection and recovery - utterly useless
My abiding memory of him was missing the Read tackle in Ellis Park in 2013 and the fact that w hen he was nearest to the tackled AB scrummie he fell over his own feet when he was nearest to the tackled AB scrummie instead of recovering the ball. Two tries in one matched can be ascribed to Alberts and Alberts only.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 19:41#9
I asked you before to produce the source for those stats and you couldn't...it's another lie. Stop lying.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2017, 05:46#10
The stats was from ESPN and was given - but you have been famous of saying that the stats do not represent the true value of players like Fran cois Steyn and Alberts in the team. So the stats in the case of Alberts was over a two year period playing for the Sharks;
Alberts is at best poor and your excuse then was that Alberts was selected because he off-set the deficiency of Matfield in the Tight 5. Can you by any chance remember the French test in 2013 - when he was MOM. His stats was as follows:-
Alberts0/000/0/5190100 9/40/100/0
He was MOM because of one ball carry of circa 15 meters when the French made a mistake with a line-out throw-in and Alberts got the ball sanding last in a line-out and managed to run till he got to the flyhalf who tackled him with ease. You obviously made no comment about his nearly 31% missed tackle ratio - but it was on par with his missed tackle ratio in many matches,
By the way Stander is on the bench for the Lions test on Saturday - so the NZ commentators was correct.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2017, 06:00#11
Just produce the career stats from ESPN or any other credible source.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2017, 10:15#12
I always did in the past and am not going to repeat it in the format I did previously with Fat Fransie. I always used ESPN stats.
29 Jun 2017, 11:14#14
Saff, first you say Gatland has stuffed up his selections and then you say CJ Stander on the bench proves Moz wrong. If Gatland is making rubbish selections then CJ Stander being one of them does nothing for your argument.
I am neither here nor there on Stander, but you do realise you are contradicting yourself somewhat?
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
29 Jun 2017, 13:42#16
"As I have said from day one you have never got a call so wrong as you have with CJ"
You think?
Quality players that Moffie has rubbished include Pieter-Steph du Toit, Jaque Fourie, Warren Whiteley, Marcell Coetzee, Jan Serfontein, Jaco Kriel, Pat Lambie, Jean-Luc du Preez, Heinrich Brussow and many, many more.
Talentless donkeys and/or overrated posers that Moffie has hyped up to the heavens include Victor Matfield (when he came out of retirement), Marius Joubert, Danie Rossouw, Adi Jacobs, Skulk Burger (post op), Francois Louw, Adriaan Strauss and - of course - Meyer Bosman!
Not sure CJ is Moffie's worst ever call. There are so many contenders !
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2017, 15:05#17
It is an odd call because the hype around Stampkar has been dropping.....most of his ratings from Weds were a 6. And finally writers are perking up to the fact that he runs often but not very far. There is no merit to running a lot if you are the designated short ball receiver. Breaking tackles and offloading have merit....notice how many offloads Stampkar made against the Canes?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2017, 15:06#18
Tokkie you never could produce those stats.....you just made them up.....they don't exist in career form.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2017, 16:50#19
Mozart
Those stats were put on site by me many times - I did not make them up as suggested by you. Whether yo u like it or not Alberts is not a loosie's backside - or perhaps he is.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2017, 20:51#20
No they weren't posted by you......never, ever.....you just pulled a number out of the air and claimed that was the number.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jul 2017, 18:36#21
More data on Stampkar......one half played.
..
Five runs, 4 metres gained, 0 defenders beaten, 0 offloads
...
Three tackle attempts...1 missed.
...
Frankly he was irrelevant to proceedings.
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
09 Jul 2017, 04:21#22
CJ was selected by a career rugby professional who knows a ton more about rugby and player qualities than all of us ragtag experts.
I am proud to see a guy who was overlooked in represent his country due to his skin colour has gone on to make a name for himself as an Irish player and a Lion player.
Great work CJ.
Wonder if any other SA born player has achieved a Lion Test cap!
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2017, 05:48#23
You mean overlooked for his colour like Whiteley and Vermeulen?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2017, 09:00#24
Overlooked by Meyer in favour of real BS like Alberts and Co,
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2017, 17:10#26
Dave I already conceded when he was selected for the second test. But I'm afraid the fuss escapes me.....he has no hands, no step....no offload. An old style forward, who certainly would not fit in with the ball in hand/offloading style played by the Lions.
..
More of a throw back.
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
12 Jul 2017, 19:19#27
moz, we all understand that u do not rate Stander and that's not an issue but here is what data is worth.
George Foreman had a 100% KO record going into the Ali Rumble in the Jungle.
So on the strength of that data, he should have been a shoe-in to KO Ali....correct.
Well, we all remember how well that data served him in that fight.... right.
Data is a tool used by many to dazzle many but most of it is useless information.
Take a batsman who has batted four times and scored as follows:0, 0, 0, 200 his average is 50.
All data indicates that his average of 50 is good. But his team lost the first game and drew the second plus he was dropped when he was on 13.
Data did nothing else but added an additional line to his record.
What good is that data to the team that he is playing in?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2017, 21:09#28
AJ I read the stats because quite often they point me to something that wasn't obvious watching the game. Stats on their own can be misleading......visual impressions backed up by stats tend to be reliable. In the case of Stampkar I never see him beating a tackle or dominating the collision sufficiently to offload. That's corroborated by his low metres per carry, few defenders beaten and almost zero offloads stats. What is also evident is he runs a lot and that requires huge effort. Admirable, but not exceptional in my view.
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
13 Jul 2017, 14:55#29
Fair comment and I respect your view.
