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FORUM / RUGBY /  Stats say All Blacks don't get 'special treatment'; NZ Herald By Sam Hewat

Stats say All Blacks don't get 'special treatment'; NZ Herald By Sam Hewat

Started by Just_win36 REPLIES410 VIEWS· 01 Sept 2016, 12:14
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:14
#1
01 Sept 2016, 12:14#1

With great dominance comes great scrutiny.

The All Blacks have learned to accept that, and now gain life and energy off the opprobrium of opponents.

Now, they're so dominant, teams just want excuses.

Once again, the "special treatment" debate has resurfaced. As if to explain why the All Blacks are as good as they are.

Case and point being Owen Franks, who has dominated the media for the past week. His alleged eye gouge quickly dismissed by Sanzaar despite many believing a case should have been brought forward. Whether or not you believe that, others have been a lot more critical calling this a common occurrence throughout recent All Blacks history.

However, a quick look at the stats shows the boys in black are far from favoured.

Since Steve Hansen took over the All Blacks in 2012 they've played 59 tests. 2012 was also the last time they received a suspension courtesy of Andrew Hore.

In those 59 tests, they have been penalised 47 more times than their opponents, the count being 616 to 569.

Similarly, they received the most yellow cards, 28 to 22.

On 35 of the 59 games played, the All Blacks have had an equal or higher penalty count.

This tells two very different stories.

One is the aforementioned myth, now debunked, that the All Blacks get favoured by referees. The other, which lends itself to the high penalty count, is the notion that the All Blacks are a "dirty" team.

In regards to the former, you could still argue the referees "let more go" when it comes to the All Blacks, but the argument is about favouritism. Considering, on average, there are between 15 to 20 penalties in a rugby match, the All Blacks have averaged 10.44 to their opponents 9.44. The point here is that even if the All Blacks are doing more, they are still being penalised more.

For the latter, the suspension argument comes into play.

Looking at the All Blacks biggest competitors since 2012, here's how the suspension count looks.

Argentina - 3, Australia - 2, England - 0, France - 1, Ireland - 3, South Africa - 2.

This doesn't include suspensions off the field, or suspensions handed out at Super Rugby or club level.

So it's true, the All Blacks get suspended less than their rivals.

However, head back to the yellow cards.

Of all the yellow cards the All Blacks have received since 2012, only two have come from "foul play." One was Adam Thomson in 2012 when he rucked the head of a Scottish player. The other was Ben Franks in 2014 for a swinging arm.

Contrast that to the All Blacks rivals, who have less yellow cards but more suspensions. Of their cards, four have come from "foul play". They include punches, elbows to the face, and head butts. Coupled with that, only one of the suspensions mentioned above came from an All Blacks game.

Maybe the All Blacks just get away with a lot. Sure, they get penalised a tonne and get punished with the cards, but maybe it's the out-of-sight infringements that have people spewing.

Franks' eye gouge is a classic example. Not picked up on the night, but lambasted afterwards.

In any case, it's not accurate to say the All Blacks get special treatment simply because of one incident. Let's not forget Australia's David Pocock got off the hook during last year's World Cup for kneeing an opponent. An infringement which usually carries a four to 12 week ban.

The reality is, teams do just as much as the All Blacks to test the boundaries, they just don't win as many games.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:19
#2
01 Sept 2016, 12:19#2
 So you see boys, we are innocent after all! 
All this bleating from the likes of Beeno has been nothing but your typical propaganda from the "build a wall types", i.e. pure denial & refusal to look at the real problems.
On the Franks incident, when all the video footage was reviewed it was clear he was in the clear. Check it for yourself.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:20
#3
01 Sept 2016, 12:20#3
 JW, Douglas has also confirmed today he was not eye-gouged to prove that there's actually one honest Australian in existence.....
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:25
#4
01 Sept 2016, 12:25#4
 Moolaa, yes I read the same article. He's a decent bloke for saying so.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:26
#5
01 Sept 2016, 12:26#5

Mmmmmmmm


Depends on the games in question I guess


Summarising does not illustrate key important games where the All Blacks "could" have been favoured at any stage over their opponents .



JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:30
#6
01 Sept 2016, 12:30#6
 DA, your post is a little vague on specifics mate. I will make a general statement in reply, there are many incidents / infringements that slip unnoticed by the refs so it's luck does play a part but on balance these stats show not systemic pattern of "special treatment".
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:32
#7
01 Sept 2016, 12:32#7
 ust_win
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 13824Stats say All Blacks don't get 'special treatment'; NZ Herald By Sam Hewat
September 01, 2016, 12:14:25

With great dominance comes great scrutiny.

The All Blacks have learned to accept that, and now gain life and energy off the opprobrium of opponents.

Now, they're so dominant, teams just want excuses.


Lance Armstrong................
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:39
#8
01 Sept 2016, 12:39#8
 Ceradyne, Lance had "medical help", it's hard to see the parallel. 
Are they going to come with new technology in the future that will allow us to examine past games & see that the ABs were getting special treatment? I don't think so.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Sept 2016, 12:56
#9
01 Sept 2016, 12:56#9
 Dominance............. scrutiny.............
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2016, 13:02
#10
01 Sept 2016, 13:02#10
Ceradyne, yes with dominance there is scrutiny & the ABs get plenty but so far they are passing the test. I think they will get even more scrutiny as for example McCaw got during his career - especially towards the end. Coaches like Cheika and Jones will be bleating the loudest & others will join in we will see what influence that has on the refs and the opposition fans.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,265 posts
01 Sept 2016, 13:05
#11
01 Sept 2016, 13:05#11
The very same article says that the All Blacks give away more penalties than other teams., but get less red cards.
------------------------------------------------This tells two very different stories:

1. One is the myth above, now debunked, that the All Blacks get favoured by referees. 

(Nothing has been debunked- this article has just proven that the All Blacks give away more cynical penalties)

2. The other, which lends itself to the high penalty count, is the notion that the All Blacks are a "dirty" team.


I think point 2 refers to cynical fouls in the red zone- more than violence. Richie Mccaw got more cheating warnings than any other player in the history of the game.


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
01 Sept 2016, 14:09
#12
01 Sept 2016, 14:09#12
 Haaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaa!!
Yes ... and the 2011 WC wasn't just given to them.
They won it on their own ...
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaa!!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2016, 15:08
#13
01 Sept 2016, 15:08#13
 CC, just checked our trophy cabinet & at the back there it was the 2011 RWC so I guess all is in order. Give our regards to Brycy
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
01 Sept 2016, 15:24
#14
01 Sept 2016, 15:24#14
 Sorry ... I just couldn't resist ...
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 09:44
#15
02 Sept 2016, 09:44#15
Just_win

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13832 RE: Stats say All Blacks don't get 'special treatment'; NZ Herald By Sam Hewat
September 01, 2016, 13:02:55

I think they will get even more scrutiny as for example McCaw got during his career - especially towards the end.



JW


McCaw got away with absolute murder during his entire career, and it was maybe curtailed a bit towards the end of it..... maybe.


McCaw is the most capped rugby player of all time, yet there are 45 other players who have more yellow cards than him.... and........ this is despite McCaw conceding more penalties than most other players per game, and it got worse towards the end of his career.


Last 40 tests - 1.48 penalties per match

Last 20 tests - 1.70 penalties per match

Last 10 tests - 2.00 penalties per match


McCaw has been yellow carded twice in his entire 143 test career, and he was averaging two penalties per game in his last 10 games.


Michael Hooper from Australia received 5 yellow cards in his first 46 matches, and has averaged one penalty in those same amount of games, as of last year.


Schalk has 6 yellows in just 80 matches, yet he gave away less penalties than McCaw per game.......


No special treatment towards the Silver Fern?


 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 10:22
#16
02 Sept 2016, 10:22#16

FYI


Most yellow cards by player                                      


After the year below, the columns are Matches - Starts - Sub - YC - RC


My opinion, is that McCaw should have been very high on this list


M Bortolami (Italy)L2001-2015112922071BG Habana (SA)W2004-2016119117270SWP Burger (SA)BR2003-201586721460G Chkhaidze (Georg)BR2002-201694771760JN Cudmore (Can)L2002-20164238460JAW Haskell (Eng)BR2007-201670511960V Kolelishvili (Georg)N82008-20153627961A Widiker (Germ)P,H2006-20164342160S Baikeinuku (Fiji/PI)C2000-20166154750M Bergamasco (Italy)BR1998-2015106901650K Brenner (Germ)BR2006-201642311150TS Clever (USA)N82003-20166866250QS Cooper (Aust)FH2008-201659461350L Datunashvili (Georg)L2004-201575472850CM Gal (Rom)C2005-201588652350AM Garbuzov (Russ)F2005-201677581950M Gorgodze (Georg)N82003-20166661550V Gresev (Russ)BR2006-20168172950NJ Hines (Scot)L2000-201177512651MK Hooper (Aust)F2012-20165650650SD Koyamaibole (Fiji/PI)BR2001-201353411251O Latu Langilangi (Tonga/PI)F2006-20165250250V Matfield (SA)L2001-2015127121650R Roncero (Arg)P1998-20125550550

 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 10:27
#17
02 Sept 2016, 10:27#17

Team yellow cards


TeamResultForAgaYCRCOppositionGroundDateMatchFijilost313750v ItalyCremona16 Nov 2013DetailsItalylost123340v FranceStade de France2 Feb 2002DetailsGeorgialost71740v UruguayMontevideo30 Oct 2004DetailsEnglandlost63240v New ZealandTwickenham29 Nov 2008DetailsRussialost182040v RomaniaBucharest18 Jun 2014DetailsRussialost61340v UruguayBucharest22 Jun 2014DetailsItalylost125930v EnglandRome18 Mar 2000DetailsArgentinalost65330v AustraliaBrisbane17 Jun 2000DetailsCanadawon221730v ItalyRovigo11 Nov 2000DetailsAustralialost192230v EnglandTwickenham18 Nov 2000DetailsFijilost106631v ItalyTreviso10 Nov 2001DetailsNew Zealanddrawn202030v FranceStade de France16 Nov 2002DetailsCzech Replost104330v PortugalLisbon8 Mar 2003DetailsCanadalost111630v USAVancouver18 Jun 2003DetailsUruguaylost173130v USABuenos Aires30 Aug 2003DetailsGeorgialost223131v ItalyAsti6 Sep 2003DetailsUruguaywon17731v GeorgiaMontevideo30 Oct 2004DetailsSamoalost77430v AustraliaSydney11 Jun 2005DetailsArgentinalost293030v ItalyCordoba17 Jun 2005DetailsNew Zealandwon231930v EnglandTwickenham19 Nov 2005DetailsAustralialost172930v South AfricaCape Town8 Aug 2009DetailsRomaniawon20931v PortugalLisbon20 Mar 2010DetailsGeorgialost162130v NamibiaBucharest20 Jun 2010DetailsFijilost132432v JapanLautoka13 Jul 2011DetailsGermanywon23730v NetherlandsHanover12 Nov 2011DetailsGermanywon201730v Czech RepPrague10 Mar 2012DetailsTongawon211530v ScotlandAberdeen24 Nov 2012DetailsRussiawon312330v PortugalCoimbra9 Mar 2013DetailsIrelandlost152230v ItalyRome16 Mar 2013DetailsBrazillost75831v UruguayMontevideo1 May 2013DetailsRomanialost92230v GeorgiaTbilisi15 Mar 2014DetailsUruguaylost35130v Emerging IrelandBucharest18 Jun 2014DetailsGeorgiawon191030v UruguayTbilisi13 Jun 2015DetailsRussialost54530v NamibiaWindhoek18 Jul 2015DetailsFijiwon272230v JapanToronto29 Jul 2015DetailsUSAwon151330v CanadaVancouver3 Aug 2015DetailsSamoalost52630v JapanMilton Keynes3 Oct 2015DetailsNamibialost161730v GeorgiaExeter7 Oct 2015DetailsRussiawon462030v GermanySotchi13 Feb 2016DetailsChilelost202330v UruguaySantiago27 Feb 2016Details

 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
02 Sept 2016, 11:06
#18
02 Sept 2016, 11:06#18
Here we go again . . . "boohoohoo the All Blacks are cheating . . . sniff . . . it's all so unfair . . . the naughty refs pick on us . . . snivel, whine, bleat . . ."

Harden up for goodness sake!

I just hope our New Zealand visitors realize that it's not all Springbok supporters who are such blubbering crybabies.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Sept 2016, 12:01
#19
02 Sept 2016, 12:01#19
 It's official.

The All Blacks are treated differently by referees from either of their Tri-Nations opponents.

The statistics from the first five games of this year's competition show a staggering difference in the ratio of penalties per yellow card. Suspicions are rife in South African rugby that the All Blacks get a special deal, are favoured whether subconsciously or consciously by referees.

Now, the figures seem to prove the point. South Africa are the most regularly penalised, conceding six penalties per yellow card. The Australians' figure is remarkably similar - just seven a card.

But by the same calculations, the New Zealand tally is incredible. Official figures show they incur 43 penalties a yellow card, more than seven times the figure of the Springboks. (CAUSING ONE TO WONDER WHAT OTHER STATS RE PENALISATION ARE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

This appears to reveal at best an extraordinary imbalance in the way the three countries are refereed and at worst, a complete lack of consistency by match officials in their dealings with each Southern Hemisphere nation ITS CALLED CHEATING). It also seems to bear out the view of certain Springbok officials that there is one law for the All Blacks and another for their rivals.

Australia's former World Cup winning coach Bob Dwyer says it is difficult to argue with the facts. (FACTS OAKS FACTS - WHICH WERE NOT DISPUTED BY THE NZ HERALD)

NZ Herald say stats show refs favour abs

Now as usual Beeno supplies facts while ou rooitwit  does his boohoo bit and stamps his footsies about how unfair it is to crit the cheating abs. His ab tee shirt is so used its worn out. What a pathetic creature ou rooitwit is!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Sept 2016, 12:06
#20
02 Sept 2016, 12:06#20
 Given the big stink surrounding nz rugby cheating it was only a matter of time before some slimeball tried to give some stats to try and justify the most cynical side ever to play rugby - the hapless we abs!
The mere fact that they have to spin this shows how they are fully aware what the rugby world thinks of them and how all honest decent rugby men are appalled at their approach to the game. Ban the kiwis for a year so they can contemplate the error of their ways.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Sept 2016, 12:09
#21
02 Sept 2016, 12:09#21
 The abs win by crooking. They then say you are whinging because you are criting a winning side. Bwahahahahahhahahaha  Beeno seeing through kiwi bull!
Away with the kbbs!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Sept 2016, 12:10
#22
02 Sept 2016, 12:10#22
 Since Steve Hansen took over the All Blacks in 2012 they've played 59 tests. 2012 was also the last time they received a suspension courtesy of Andrew Hore.
To their being favoured we have to include these tribunals!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Sept 2016, 12:13
#23
02 Sept 2016, 12:13#23
 The whole point is regardless of any stats is the refs don't penalise lawless wee ab infringements nearly enough  -they get away with murder.
With the hapless turncoat rooit w iterbug applauding from the sidellines
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
02 Sept 2016, 12:44
#24
02 Sept 2016, 12:44#24
 Just let it keep gnawing away at you Hasbeeno.2nd best is all you've ever been and you're now on the slippery slope to oblivion.Shame.....I'll sleep soundly tonight!
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 12:50
#25
02 Sept 2016, 12:50#25
Rooinek

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3776 RE: Stats say All Blacks don't get 'special treatment'; NZ Herald By Sam Hewat
September 02, 2016, 11:06:02

Here we go again . . . "boohoohoo the All Blacks are cheating . . . sniff . . . it's all so unfair . . . the naughty refs pick on us . . . snivel, whine, bleat . . ."

Harden up for goodness sake!

I just hope our New Zealand visitors realize that it's not all Springbok supporters who are such blubbering crybabies.


Oh Rooi Rooi


The facts seem a bit compelling wouldn't you say. 


But we all know you well already, you wouldn't see a fact unless it snuck up on you and tried to wrestle that beer out of your hand..... LMAO


Quite frankly, it's the Springbok supporters themselves who are the stupid ones here.


They accept and support mediocrity

They accept and support bias refereeing

They accept and support inconsistent sanctions

They accept and support blatant racism in player selections

They accept and support blatant racism in coach selections

They accept and support paying for exorbitant ticket prices to watch appalling rugby


Next time a Springbok supporter goes out to buy a rugby ticket, those are just a few things of what he is supporting with his hard earned money.


We are all guilty, because we do nothing to change it.


This is not about the All Blacks, this is about the SA supporters standing up for once and forcefully making the powers that be aware, that it is no longer acceptable to let Springbok Rugby diminish to the levels it has now. 


It's beyond pathetic...... the history and heritage of the Springbok name, emblem, and reputation, and everything else it stands for, should be fought for.


We, as a collective, have done Jack Sh!t  

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
02 Sept 2016, 14:12
#26
02 Sept 2016, 14:12#26
Dumb Ass, I don't mean to sound rude but why are you telling me all this? I can only think that you're confusing me with someone who gives the tiniest toss about your whiny and tearful little opinions.

No offence . . . I mean that in the nicest possible way. Now be a good chap and go yap somewhere else. Thanks in anticipation.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
02 Sept 2016, 14:15
#27
02 Sept 2016, 14:15#27
 Rooie hit the nail right on the head.When its your team winning were you whining about refs then ? Everybody does to some degree but I notice over the years that A fans have become more sooky as time goes by and seem to find greivence in decisions that dont even affect them .So much for the implacable ,stoic Bok fan eh ?Now we get farktards like beandik  Roies right harden the f.ck up .
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 14:45
#28
02 Sept 2016, 14:45#28

Rooi


That post ended my reference to you after the LMAO, because as always, I have to have a good laugh whenever you are mentioned in a post of mine.


Purely because it's hilarious how stupid you really are, so thanks for the daily laughs.


What else is completely laughable and slightly off topic from "Rooi Rooi the Bottlenose" is that even back in 2010, it was discovered and published by the New Zealand Herald themselves, that the Springboks are penalised 7 times more than their All Black counterparts, and this coming directly from the New Zealand media themselves.


And yet some of you, as a supposed "Springbok" supporter say it's irrelevant, move on, stop whining, it will come right..... blah blah blah


That, as well as all the other national and political issues listed above is what we should be standing up for, not mediocrity, inconsistency, bias or political games or officials.


Go buy your hard earned tickets, and go and watch them get thrashed again by some innocuous opponent, and then do what you always do, come back on here and b!tch and moan about it all week long until you go out and buy a ticket for the next weeks game.


Priceless !!



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 14:58
#29
02 Sept 2016, 14:58#29
Wardad

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 4127 RE: Stats say All Blacks don't get 'special treatment'; NZ Herald By Sam Hewat
September 02, 2016, 14:15:37

 Rooie hit the nail right on the head.

When its your team winning were you whining about refs then ? Everybody does to some degree but I notice over the years that A fans have become more sooky as time goes by and seem to find greivence in decisions that dont even affect them .So much for the implacable ,stoic Bok fan eh ?Now we get farktards like beandik Roies right harden the f.ck up .

 

It has got fcuk all to do with hardening up and accepting what we do every year, with every poor result or decision or selection.


As I mentioned earlier, this is not just about the All Blacks.... well, not for me anyway


You want to harden up?, then do something about all the sh!t you b!tch about every day on here....... every day.


Stay away from the games where quota's take main stage in selection

Stop purchasing their merchandise... small steps.....

Stop filling their pockets..... don't attend the games


Every time we attend a game, we support every aspect of this political organisation that instils this racist selection of players, which results in below par performances, which in turn devalues the Springbok brand........... which was feared for decades.


Now we are the laughing stock of the world, and WE support that every week, every year.


So how about you harden the fcuk up and do something to change it.


If hardening the fcuk up is accepting any current selection, decision or result... but then complaining every day on here like some of you do, then boy do we have some  real hard men on here. 



RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
02 Sept 2016, 15:15
#30
02 Sept 2016, 15:15#30
Spot the irony!

Here we have Dumb Ass - a known coward and arguably the weakest little crybaby on this forum - talking about hard men and telling everyone to harden up!

LMAO!
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 15:18
#31
02 Sept 2016, 15:18#31

Rooi,


For the record I didn't include you  in that equation.


We all know that you can't even see the wall unit, never mind the TV, by the time the game is finished. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Sept 2016, 15:33
#32
02 Sept 2016, 15:33#32
 DA you make a lot of great points.Of course you musn't expect any sense from rooitwitterbug and his kbbs mates. Apart from the kbbs and turncoats like rooitwit everyone whop has watched kiwi rugby feels the same. Hence their desperate attempt to spin the story. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Beeno has the kbbs on a string together with the very unsavoury rooitwitterbug!
Was it last year or the year before when we had journalist around the world commenting on this problem? It was discussed on the board with the poor kbbs frothing at the mouth with inappropriate indignation  - I mean crooking is their divine right which must not be questioned. I note in closing ou rootwit doesn't comment on the yellow card penalty count bit I posted. Hahahahhahahahaha its like taking candy from a baby. 
Rooitwit its hard to defend the indefensible!
Beeno offering poor rooitwit a helping hand!
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Sept 2016, 16:26
#33
02 Sept 2016, 16:26#33

Beeno


The Springboks were as notorious for their standards and type of play as what Rooi Rooi's was notorious for his  daily alcohol intake has been for all these years.


Simply astonishing...


Except the fact that Rooi Rooi has easily maintained his notorious daily alcohol consumption over all these years, yet sadly the Springboks have not maintained their standard of play.


I sympathise with the one, and pity the other.....



JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
02 Sept 2016, 17:01
#34
02 Sept 2016, 17:01#34
 Beeno is in full bleat mode 
Clearly those that commit more egregious violations of the rules of rugby get more yellow & red cards. The ABs commit violations of the laws but usually these don't rise to the level of a yellow or red because these are minor violations. They play smart.
Then there are the examples of stupidity that reach Trum@pish proportions, e.g. the red that Bissie got. Clearly the ref made a mistake on the first yellow (tackle on Carter which was a blindsider but legit) but poor wee Bissie was so stupid he used his elbow to try and decapitate Messam shortly thereafter. Two yellows make a red so he was out of the game. A perfect illustration of stupidity which inflates the Boks penalty to card ratio. 
I will devise a Mozart formula when I have time to add more clarity to my argument.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,265 posts
02 Sept 2016, 19:42
#35
02 Sept 2016, 19:42#35

If the All Blacks get more yellows and fewer reds- that is a statistical anomaly. He has disproved his argument if you use the numbers. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
03 Sept 2016, 04:57
#36
03 Sept 2016, 04:57#36
 JW some on here dont get that smart teams dont push infringements till they become red cards or turn penalties into yellow cards  by pushing their luck.Its just common dog shit that any team with a modicum of intelligence adheres to ,and unlike Moore constantly harassing refs over every decision the ABs pick and choose when to question the ref in a civil manner .Fans conducting sooky farcebook campaigns dont endear their team to refs either .
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Sept 2016, 17:24
#37
03 Sept 2016, 17:24#37
 Let's hope they get complacent too!
— END OF THREAD —

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