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FORUM / RUGBY /  Stephanie .....is it a bird, is it a plane

Stephanie .....is it a bird, is it a plane

Started by Mozart20 REPLIES712 VIEWS· 26 Nov 2018, 16:01
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2018, 16:01
#1
26 Nov 2018, 16:01#1
Stephanie played a role best described as roving lock: 1 He defended in the first tackler position.... 2 He fulfilled the Etzebeth/Jaws attacking role by design Both 1 and 2 were obviously team decisions and resulted in great visibility and high run/tackle counts. 3 He was often nowhere near the breakdown....when Smith scored in Pretoria he was was in midfield as they went round the blindside. 4 Often he adopted a position right on the touchline to attract skip passes....he became so enamoured with the touchline that he stepped on it when he could have scored against Wales. 5 He sometimes popped to number 2 in the lineouts...a smart move. 6 But in his roving role, his lock genes never permitted much open field defence .....the one open field tackle I recall him getting credit for, was actually made by Marx. 7 Nor in his blindside role can I remember him breaking a tackle and offloading to get a movement going. In fact I can hardly remember him breaking a tackle at all....one of our real issues, we don't have a Vinny or a Savea..good hard yards men. ....... Lots of ink....and lots of hard work. But hard work that would otherwise have been done by our locks, our eigthman or ....hell....our wings. This experiment has left us with a complete inability to do the hard work of loosie play. The Welsh flanks showed up our cobbled together pairing time and again on Saturday, getting through mountains of good work. Not that Stephanie played badly. He clearly tried hard. But his and presumably the team's definition of his role left us a penny short in the loosie stakes. If you watch Itoje playing flank for a close physical analogy, he is constantly right in the middle of the dirty work....protecting the ball. So this is a hard argument to make....the player was good but the results were bad. And if this doesn't compute ask yourself why the Welsh loosies dominated us......or ask yourself what if anything Stephanie did in open field that had any bearing on any match. We need to go back to a balanced loosie trio, which means Kolisi needs to play blindside or not at all.....and Stephanie needs to compete for 5 lock. Or perhaps be a bench player covering 4,5 and 7. That gives us lots of flexibility and gives us a good 20 minute burst of his energy.....which is pretty much the way he plays, mostly in second half bursts. I can't think of one genuine lock who has been successfully deployed long term as a flank.....for any country. There is a reason for that.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2018, 18:08
#2
26 Nov 2018, 18:08#2

What about Danie Rossouw BSter  - you cannot think , easy to understand you never do.  

So you do not want Du Toit on the flank - who do you want in the back row?   Kolisi must go to 7 - who must play at 6 and 8? 

Mozart - this is about the biggest load of BS I have ever read from you - why do you not start thinking for a change?   How long has your campaign against Du Toit has been going on - since 3013 I believe?  And it never changed - so what else is new?       

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2018, 18:13
#3
26 Nov 2018, 18:13#3
Danie Rossouw was never a genuine lock. He was a loosie that could play lock and a much more agile man than Stephanie. My point here is Stephanie did some decent things....but not what we should expect of a blindside flank. The experiment has failed.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2018, 18:26
#4
26 Nov 2018, 18:26#4

Sure according to you it was a failure - but what do you suggest as to the back row. 

And Danie Rossouw because he was a lock there were serious  debate at the time about his selection in the back row - so did you have tor un for cover when caught out writing tripe?

Just another question you praised  Matfield endlessl;y for being a good lock - but he never involved himself in rucks and mails and moonlighted endlessly amongst the centers    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2018, 19:15
#5
26 Nov 2018, 19:15#5
I praised Matfield for being the greatest lineout forward in the modern game, a great passer and a brilliant open field tackler.....and his job description didn't include fetching.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2018, 19:44
#6
26 Nov 2018, 19:44#6
Time to look at some numbers for Stephanie....for the international season of 2018: 1 Tackles made 172/missed 31....success 84.7%. Not stellar but decent success and at 12 tackles a game, good productivity. 2 Runs 135 for 210 metres gained...average 1.56 metres per run. Lots of runs to get fans excited, but abysmal success. And lets not forget those numbers are padded by some of his runs down the wing. 3 Defenders beaten 9/clean breaks 3 ....which means it takes more than 10 runs for Stephanie to register either a clean break or beat a tackle. This is toothless running, but given it happened a lot....it has defined our attack. Ever wonder why we can't get any phase productivity...look no further. 4 A lot of offloading and passing might help....but he only offloaded or passed the ball 26.6%of the time. And his offloading number dropped as the season progressed....his last offload occurred in the NZ away test! 5 Another way of looking at this is he turned over the ball 11 times and offloaded it 7 times. 6 He never scored a try/ nor did he provide an assist. 7 He was penalized 10 times , which seems about average. 8 So there is no evidence of a game changing moment, except of course for that penalty which got NZ back into the Pretoria test. 9 Mostly what we at looking at is 12 tackles a game at a solid percentage....and 15 metres a game as our go to forward runner. Sound defensive stats and lacklustre attacking numbers amounting to a lot less than advertised. Which is why his RPI ranking (the new state of the art model) among test blindside flanks is 9.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2018, 20:29
#7
26 Nov 2018, 20:29#7

Mozart

I asked you a question - who do you want to be playing at 6 and 8?

I read all your jargon - why not come up with the same for Louw, Vermeulen and your new hero Mostert and show us how much better they are than Du Toit.     

Anyway - why don't you do us a favour and sent the posting in an e-mail to Erasmus pleading with him to get rid of Du Toit and asking him for his viewpoint on the desperately poor Du Toit.   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2018, 21:00
#8
26 Nov 2018, 21:00#8
Not desperately poor, just not providing what a blindside needs to provide. His defence is fine for a lock, his running below average.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2018, 01:59
#9
27 Nov 2018, 01:59#9

As expected no answer yet,   Who do you want to play at 6 and 8?    And why not do a similar long drama queen evaluation of Louw, Mostert and Vermeulen as well.  No answer there too.   Happy moron day.  

And why not send an e-mail expressing what you wrote above and ask him for his comments on Du Toit.   You can do it - but won't.   

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
27 Nov 2018, 03:39
#10
27 Nov 2018, 03:39#10

That sounds about right. I'm still analysing a few things, haven't gotten to Steph as of yet. He does some good things, but some poor things as well. The instances where he is cleanly beaten aren't registered by the stats. He can be baited and rush out of the line. This is quite alarming at times when he is the pillar or guard defender. His open field tackles can be poor, but seemed to improve in the later portions of the season. When we have had our big defensive stands, he has had some exceptionally accurate games. Against Australia at home, I can't recall a single error. He regularly caught the attacker for a loss. Was our most impact full defender alongside André.

What's missing here is a little honesty from the over-emotional types. The forum is composed of three groups: 1.The emotional whiners and liars , 2.Those who correct the emotional whiners and liars, 3.Those sitting on the fence, trying to be impartial. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2018, 05:38
#11
27 Nov 2018, 05:38#11
I don't think Mostert's running or tackling stats are better than Stephanie's....but his lineout work clearly is, and he has made many timely interventions because he reads the game very well. I would like to see an Etzebeth/ Snyman lock pairing with Mostert or Stephanie as the bench lock. But for that to happen Snyman has to demonstrate the ability to call the lineouts.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2018, 08:14
#12
27 Nov 2018, 08:14#12

Mozart. Mozart, Mozart

Snyman had ONE good game, TWO average games and was SUBSTANDARD/POOR in all the other games he played in.  

Mostert fails in line-out work inasmuch he cannot be the basis for driving mauls and cannot take opposition throw-in line-out balls.  he can take line-out balls - but what happens then is also very important.   

Have you not looked at Snyman's performance in the tests he played in?   Have you no shame about writing BS on the site?


 

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
27 Nov 2018, 12:29
#13
27 Nov 2018, 12:29#13

I would play the Du Preez brothers at 6 and 8 with PSdT at 7. Vermeulen would be on the bench.

Still 4 tests left to evaluate this combo.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
27 Nov 2018, 12:33
#14
27 Nov 2018, 12:33#14
Blikkies, I'd differ slightly. The Du Preez twins at #7 and #8 with a pure fetcher like Jaco Kriel or Kwagga Smith at #6.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2018, 12:35
#15
27 Nov 2018, 12:35#15

Blikkies

A much better suggestion - but I would rather have a specialist 6 like Kriel and Labuschagne at 6 -  Du Toit at 7 and the Du Preez twins - one of whom on the bench. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2018, 18:17
#16
27 Nov 2018, 18:17#16
The Du Preez twins have had plenty of chances. Face it they were anointed , Dan du Preez was rushed into the Sharks in 2015. That means he has played in 4 seasons of Super Rugby. So far they have been a damp squibb....the occasional decent offload offset by serial fumbling. That doesn't mean that at 23 they are done. But it does mean they have to prove themselves, something no fair observer will concede they have done to date, Labuschagne is a provincial player and Kriel was out of his depth in his few test appearances.....too small and too old to break into test rugby now. Let's get real.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2018, 18:22
#17
27 Nov 2018, 18:22#17

Still insisting on  Louw at 6, Kolisi at 7 and  Vermeulen at 8????  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2018, 18:31
#18
27 Nov 2018, 18:31#18
Nope....I have never supported Kolisi, and Louw is probably best off the bench at this stage. Vermeulen on the other hand is still our best option at 8. He is still capable of taking over and dominating a game, as he did when he was moved to number 8 against France. In a WC knockout game Vermeulen is still one of the top 5 number 8s in the game......next year may be a bridge too far if he picks up further injuries, always the case with players at this stage of their careers.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Nov 2018, 18:33
#19
27 Nov 2018, 18:33#19

Flo on the bench...Thor still our best 8.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2018, 06:32
#20
28 Nov 2018, 06:32#20

Mozart

Let me remind you of what Meyer said about the 2015 WC squad selections.   He said that his selections are based on "that I know what each of the selected players are capable of in the past".  We all know that most of the reputation players failed in the WC and that others did not complete the series because of injury, 

Unfortunately that is exactly what you are pleading for.    It si unfortunate that -

*   Louw failed in all tests he played in this year and you tried to cover up the failures by stressing the three ball possession turnovers he made in all tests he played in - but forgetting about the fact that he missed crucial tackles and his tackle count was far too  LOW in virtually all tests played;

*    Vermeulen was very good in the first two tests - even though in the two tests his tackle count for both tests - a basic function of loosies made it ridiculously low.   In the other four tests played he was very little in evidence and his tackle count for the last three tests where he played in was 17 tackles made - 4 missed,   In the main he was nowhere to be seen otherwise as well.  Was his defense good enough?  No ways.

Sorry Mozart - you are not objective at all.   Fact is that Vermeulen tried to use the Alberts and Matfield tricks in 2015.   Pick and choose what games to play in leading up to the World Cup and then failing to perform in the WC tests .           

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2018, 07:11
#21
28 Nov 2018, 07:11#21

Mozart

One thing about Matfield - in his prime before retirement - he was very good in line-out play, but for the rest a dead loss in other phases of Tight 5 play.   He rarely entered mauls even when in his prime, he would stand around in the backline, making open field tackles.

When he came back from retirement his line out performance deteriorated badly losing own throw crucial line-outs and being useless in all phases of play.

I was a great admirer of Mafield in his prime - but when looking at his return in 2014 he was a farce.   He damaged his reputation badly.  So your praise above is misleading as well.

As to Mostert he has never once since becoming a Springbok took any balls on opposition throw-ins and that counts for a negative - a bad one at that.   He is also incapable of handling the ball so as to get a driving  maul  forming and to co-ordinate such mauls in tests.   The only one he tried to start in the French test was typically flawed.     

Snyman in line-outs were so poor that in the test against the Scots he was not jumping in front in line-outs -  Du Toit was used for that purpose.   

— END OF THREAD —

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