CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jul 2014, 01:40#2
Interesting selections. I see this relates to the Stormers - not the WP, So we have misfits like Braam van Straaten at 10 - better than Morne Steyn ever was - but still a misfit. The Stormers played as WP in the Super 12 in the 1990's days and in that time they had Joel Stransky playing for them as well. I would definitely select Stransky ahead of Braam.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jul 2014, 12:07#3
Dr Moz, Deon Fourie is a far superior player than Corne Krige!!! Pleeeease!!!I would rather play Schalk at 6 and Vermuelen at 7.Tiaan Liebenberg walks the hooker posistion. At his best he was right up there with Bissie and Staruss. Dont mind Schalk Britz on bench.
It shows whata poor lot of flyhlaves we have had! Braam was a boot and a defender and that was it. Was De Kock better than Duvenage or say Groom? I would prefer Grant at his best to Braam.
How far back does one go. Carel Du Plessis the prince of wingers before wee Breyton. Carel was one of the great wings of all time.
These corrections would make this indeed a formidable side.
I think Malherbe will prove to be a better player than Cobus. If far better outside the scrums and a very good scrummager. Young Kitshof has one of the highest work rates of any prop and he too may go beyond Toks in the future. W e shall see
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jul 2014, 13:06#4
Beeno, it's a Stormers side and not a WP side. IMO Cobus was the best SA 3 since readmission. Toks was very mobile and strong in his prime. Agree with you about the rest. Pity both Habana and Slaptjips are 11's, as I would have liked him in the side as well. And sadly no fly-half of note. Grant in his prime was the closest to real class we had so I would also drop Braam for Grant. Oh if Grant only had an extra 10 to 15 yards on his kicks. Distance is/was his greatest weakness.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jul 2014, 13:29#5
Okay thanks Draad.
I would have Allende on the wing before Breyton. I just dont like pint size players - more and more they are getting outgunned at top level. Its not that difficult to swop wing postions. Slapchips is a possibility for sure.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jul 2014, 13:36#6
I tend to agree on the size issue. Either S laptjips or Habana at 14. Habana has played 14 for the Boks IIRC.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jul 2014, 13:56#7
Habana must get it. The other wing position is Allende or Slapchips. Amazing how many of these guys a re still playing.
GTGonzo the Great
Club Pro560 posts
GTGonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
23 Jul 2014, 14:02#8
Braam had a good boot, but man he was a pretty poor 10. Slow and boring. Beeno1, Paulse is one of THE best wings South Africa have ever produced. Not just a speed merchant, but also a good defender and actually quite clever. He was a standout player in our 2004 season. Give the guy some credit. As for size, well, Aplon did munch up Nonu, Rocokoco and Muiliaina in the same game (knocked Mils so hard he looked stunned as he staggered to his feet!). So your theory on size clearly has lots of holes in it. Man guys like Fleck, he said in an interview ages ago that he only learned to offload when he was at Wales. This guy was a true dud, way overrated. Barry and Jean? Tough choice, but I would go with Barry. In the end he came good, I'm still waiting for something from Jean. Draad, you are so right! Cobus would destroy our current gen props. This man was solid and his technique was flawless, he proved his rep by going up North and munching them! The man is so underrated. You don't make them like that anymore.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jul 2014, 14:27#9
Gonzo the grunt you would prefer that plodder Barry to the great Jean de Villiers!!!
No wonder you thought wee Breyton a great. His defence was poor most his career and finally reached average.
You have to be smoking something very strong to be dreaming about wee Aplon munching Roco, Nonu and Mils!! Hahahahahahahahahahaha
I am sure our kiwi friends find that very funny.
Cobus was a solid prop who could have served WP for many a year. We have lost what is virtually a test team to overseas.
However in Malherbe we have a very good one. Better outside the scrum than Cobus by some way.
GTGonzo the Great
Club Pro560 posts
GTGonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
23 Jul 2014, 14:35#10
Jean IS a plodder. But Barry could defend and kick, he had more tools. Not the best maybe but he doesn't play like a wing looking for an intercept. The only tool Jean ever vhad was the intercept. The guy cannot function as a team player because he cant do the basics. If he wasnt so slow he would be a wing for sure, his best rugby was there in 2004. Oh and the best one he flopped at Munster! Came back home with his tail between hi legs! Hahahahahahaha!
And yes Aplon did much them up, rewind to 2010 and I believe it was the home test. They sent their big runners his way and they were folded! Accept the facts String Bean.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jul 2014, 14:49#11
Gonzo, you are wrong about Jean. Best 12 we had after Brendan Venter. Not fact, only my opinion :-)
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jul 2014, 15:37#13
Gonz ou the grunt De Wet Barry was one of the slowest centers to ever play test rugby. It was a pity really as he was otherwise a good player. Barry and Braam were both very much plodders.
Jean is an all time great and he and Fourie in their heyday were rated the best center combo in the world. To compare B arry with Jean is ludicrous .
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jul 2014, 17:31#15
Just a question
Is Gonzo the new name for Sun Tzu - he has some very weird ideas about players - same as Sun Tzu had?
GTGonzo the Great
Club Pro560 posts
GTGonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
23 Jul 2014, 17:48#16
Fourie and Jean, that's a good one! Snails, at least they can keep up with each other. We played great attacking rugby in 2004 WITH BARRY! Then came plod and carthorse and we relied on intercepts until Frans came in.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jul 2014, 18:36#17
Mike, you might have a point. Blitzen also comes to mind for those of us used to the old days at Supersupporter.
23 Jul 2014, 18:47#18
de Allende shouldn't be anywhere near an All Time team yet. Let him put in a proper shift first.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jul 2014, 19:36#19
Agreed Matey. My only real gripes with the team is Britz, Krige and Braam. Scalla in for Krige, Duane in for Scalla. Grant in for Braam with Persy taking the longer range kicks. Liebenberg at 2 in stead of Britz, but only just.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jul 2014, 20:08#20
Sorry you dont play Breyton against players like Savea or Ndola you play an Allende.
Allende would be a Bok by now apart from injury.
