Well the usual disagreements on performance have emerged.....albeit only one side is fact based. So next week should be interesting......Grant back to oppose Lambie.....and I suspect Jean against Fransie, deJongh against Jordaan. Jean was always able to put Fury away in the Stormers vs Lions clashes. My guess is he proves too much for Fransie.
My money is on Frans once again being the best SA centre on display again, as he was this weekend and once again Jean will be a no show.
The Stormers would be crazy to leave de Allende out, this kid looks the business. If the Stromers had any sense they would dispose of Jean and forget about de Jongh in total
Fortunately the professionals don't share your views.
I'd like to see one single professional pick Jean's performance over Frans this weekend - it would be laughable
You have your views, I have mine.....time will tell.
I'd like to see a SA team of the week and player ratings as it has to be a given that Frans would walk the 12 spot. Which sites usually have these?
Rugby 365 usually has an all S 15 TOTW. There used to be a Bok Barometer on some other site, which would capture what you are talking about. But I have found over the years, really good performances usually make the 365 Team or at a minimum the Bubbling under category. Failing that one is dealing with routine performance.
I may be proven wrong, but to me one long pass ala Bosman and less than 3 metres a carry doesn't cut it. Fransie did beat two defenders, but it was all static.. And he did manage 2 offloads, but then negated that with 2 balls given to the opposition.
I have no problem with Steyn, in fact I always liked him. But if you look at him today vs the 2007 RWC, he has become so much heavier. And last year he effectively did nothing bar the charge down try , which saved our draw against the Bargies.
He can't just be a poor man's Roberts, we need to see more.
Disagree totally. Frans showed exactly what we need at 12. Being able to impose yourself in traffic and offload is exactly what we are looking for.
Its the closest I have seen to SBW from a SA player. Those two breaks and offloads were highlights, for the rest he was very good
Impose himself for three yards against who.....Ebrsohn who is not a 12? You are way over reading some perfectly routine play. Unlike you and Mike if Taute, Stephan du Toit, Fransie or any of your favorites step up.....I'll report it accurately. You can't maintain credibility in these discussions if you deny what's obvious to everybody.
Mozart
The biggest denialist on this Board is definitely you. You will make laugable statements like the try scored by Coetzee was the result of the bounce of the ball - just to try and discredit that fact. Question - how many tries are scored because of the "bounce of the ball"?
But back to this Board. The biggest mistake the Stormers will make is to play De Jongh - he is useless in any backline and the stats you love to quote confirms that. Two tries scored in Super 15 last year and those were the only two in two years of Super 15. In the famous CC final - he scored two tries and gave away 2 goaled penalties. Loss 1 point net. For you still supporting De Jongh after the vanishing trick played by him in the England test - what a face.
I hope Coetzee is not gullible enough to drop Taute this coming weekend - he in fact did well enough to make the team and if Grant does play - the Stormers will have a reliable kicker at goal.
Actually I'm not a "denialist" about Coetzee, I simply recognize he was dropped by the Boks for a reason. Louw was way better.
As for Taute, you are so deeply invested in this idea that he is the next Bok fullback, you can't see what's happening in front of you. Last weekend even old Hennie Daniller was way better. Who would have predicted that!
We shall see what happens on Saturday if Jean and de Jongh line up against Steyn and Jordaan. Maybe your lads will prevail, and if they do you can be sure I will be honest about it.....unlike your view on Taute and Sapp's view on Jantjies last weekend.
Mozart
Read what you said about Coetzee in Super 15 comment. That has nothing to do with the tests last year. I do not buy your latest comment at all - still represent denigration of Coetzee's performance in the game on Saturday.
I am not going to go overboard about criticizing players Taute was average - not a disaster like you like to make out. Your campign against him is relentless and in fact deficient of any objectivity.
As a Shark supporter I would welcome it if Coetzee is stupid enough to play the De Villiers-De Jongh combination at center this coming weekend. There is one guarantee attached to that - the dead Stormers backline of the 2012 Super 15 - will be back in force.
Mozart - there is one thing members of this Board cannot accuse you and Saffex of - and that is objective assessment of player performances. Even outright disaster performances are defended by you and you are a master at taking incidents from games and generalizing it.
The only person that really is objective on this Board is in fact me. I criticize poor play and give credit to good play. However, unlike you - I also take into account stats of all players - not only those who supports my argument. The case of the De Jongh stats are classical - because it did not fit your argument you simply ignored it.
There was none more of a severe critic of Francois Steyn on this Board last year. He showed some signs of improvement and I was postive about that. Unlike you - who never give certain players credit - I do give credit for good performances when such performances are justified.
The Stormers are in for a rude awakening against the Sharks. Even if they do get 20m Grant back. There backline is crap and it has much to do with over rated JDV. when are people going to realise that everything comes to a grinding halt when he gets the ball? How much did Aplon see of the ball on Friday? I needed to remind myself, a number of times, that he was also running around on somewhere on the park.
F Louw was a revelation last year, he played Coetzee out of the Bok team. Pretty simple really!. Does that make Coetzee rubbish, no, will he ever be better than Flo, maybe, but not yet. JDV is past it, when will everyone realise that? I have been relatively vocal about not being a F Steyn fan, but I'd rather have him in my team anytime over Jean. De Jong is average, and will never be anyting else.
Bluebok
I am with you on this one - my arguments exactly.
