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FORUM / RUGBY /  Sunwolves out of Super Rugby

Sunwolves out of Super Rugby

Started by clevermike14 REPLIES439 VIEWS· 22 Mar 2019, 07:50
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2019, 07:50
#1
22 Mar 2019, 07:50#1

The following from News24:-


"Japan's Sunwolves will be axed from Super Rugby from 2021, the governing body said on Friday, ditching Asia's first team in the competition just six months before Japan hosts the World Cup.

SANZAAR (South Africa, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina Rugby) said it wasn't prepared to bankroll the perennial wooden-spooners after Japan's rugby board withdrew financial support.

The globe-trotting competition will return to 14 teams and its previous round-robin format from 2021, scrapping the unpopular and convoluted conference system.

SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos said the Sunwolves decision was "not taken lightly", and held open the possibility of a Super Rugby Asia-Pacific competition also involving Pacific nations, the Americas and Hong Kong.

"SANZAAR was advised by the Japan Rugby Football Union in early March that they would no longer be in a position to financially underwrite the Sunwolves' future participation post 2020," Marinos said in a statement.

Reports say much of the opposition to Asia's first Super Rugby team came from South Africa, whose teams were opposed to travelling to Tokyo and Singapore for the Sunwolves' home games.

Japan's Kyodo news agency said SANZAAR had told the Sunwolves to pay a "non-negotiable" participation fee of about 1 billion yen ($9 million) a year to stay in Super Rugby.

The Tokyo-based Sunwolves were introduced with great fanfare along with Argentina's Jaguares in 2016 as Super Rugby, seeking new markets, expanded to 18 teams.

Both teams survived a cull when the tournament shrank back to 15 sides in 2018, after the sprawling, globe-crossing new format proved unwieldy for teams and fans.

But results on the pitch were slow in coming for the Sunwolves, who were embarrassed 92-17 by the Cheetahs in their first season - before winning a breakthrough first victory, against the Jaguares, the following week.

Two more wins followed in 2017, improving to three in 2018, but with a litany of heavy defeats along the way, including a 94-7 hiding by the Lions in 2017.

Now in their fourth season, they won away for the first time earlier this month, beating the Chiefs 30-15 - only their seventh win in 51 games.

The Sunwolves have also faced criticism about the number of non-Japanese in their team, raising questions over their core mission of developing home-grown players."


The above contains  some serious issues  not previously mentioned or largely ignored in dealing with the issue:-


The removal o the Conference system


This is to be welcomed.   The system protects teams not worth protecting and I means that the system is not a true reflection of the real strength of teams in the competition while at the same times increasing the series to a 16 game pattern.  That reuires that =


*   Each team must play home and away games to teams in the Conference itself - implying a total of 8 games;

*   Each team must also play four of each of the other teams - meaning that in some years not all teams are really competitive. That implies a further 8 games to be played,


The new format would reduce the round robin component of the series to 13 games to be played - so alkl teams would emet all opponents in that phase of the game, which in the past did not happen.


The series remains long one and it would be possible not to have individual team byes - but rather a bye system which could easily be done on the following basis - with a break if a week after each phase:-


Phase 1   -    Playing five games

Phase 2   -    Playing four games

Phase 3  -     playing four games


That would still mean that the series is a week shorter than the present one.   


That would also mean that the 8 teams in the play-offs will essentially be the top 8 teams after playing each other,   


Need for neutral referees   


The fact is that Sanzaar has tried to establish a system of refereeing that did not work out,   In 2018 the system was to send a referee from New Zealand to SA for example to referee local games,   However, it could be used to ref games involving NZ teams.   In 2018 the system failed  and the NZ referee was sent back to NZ after clearly favouring NZ teams in two successive games.


How can one really get neutral refs?   It should be done making sure that referees are really impartial and not favouring teams in one way or another,   I am afraid what happened to the Rebels last week could also be detrimental to the image . of Super Rugby games - the Rebels were penalized 20 times - the Lions only once.   How does that type of thing happen?   Even though it was clear that most of the penalties in fact arose from -


*   defective scrumming; and 

*   high tackles,


and would have been penalized by most referees - the question remains that a neutral referee may have been less controversial; if used.


The money issue


This is not an issue that was raised previously - fact is it was clear that if the Japan Rugby Board was not prepared to fund the Sunwolves - and they would have to be subsidized by the four components of Sanzaar complaints could be expected.   SA is already - through the Supersport contract funding  major component of Sanzaar costs on the series and the money would be better used to support other members of Sanzaar of which Japan was never a part.


Selection of the Sunwolves team  


Initially the overwhelming number o team members came from Japan - but afterwards the Japan Clubs started to refuse to release contracted with them - both Japanese players and foreign contracted players,  So the answer from te Sunwolves was to contract their own foreign players mostly coming from Sanzaar countries and the Pacific Islands.  Th ideal initially was touse the Sunwolves to enhance rugby as a game in Japan.    But did it have the desired effect - I think not                              .     


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Mar 2019, 10:06
#2
22 Mar 2019, 10:06#2

In all honesty ... Japan never belonged in the competition.

Returning to what worked is a step in the right direction.

Sure has taken these fools a long time to decided on this.

Look forward to it.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Mar 2019, 17:04
#3
22 Mar 2019, 17:04#3
Agreed but the most welcome news is getting rid of the conference format which has almost destroyed the contest. It's a pity they never bit the bullet and scaled back to the Super 12, which was a terrific competition.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
22 Mar 2019, 19:02
#4
22 Mar 2019, 19:02#4
Remove the conference system and the playoffs. Super rugby as a league only. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2019, 19:43
#5
22 Mar 2019, 19:43#5

Why remove the play-offs?  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
22 Mar 2019, 20:14
#6
22 Mar 2019, 20:14#6

Look at the record for travelling teams. Playoffs don't work for Super rugby. A league format will work best. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2019, 20:33
#7
22 Mar 2019, 20:33#7

It was a problem for the Sharks in 2012 and never again since

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Mar 2019, 21:59
#8
22 Mar 2019, 21:59#8
Actually the league idea is smart....it evens the travel issue.
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
23 Mar 2019, 00:48
#9
23 Mar 2019, 00:48#9
Problem with league system is those years when another team has such a lead ( looking at you Crusaders) that they can't be caught and win with 3 or 4 weeks remaining. 
If there was something similar to Champions League to aspire to for top 4 or six finishers it might be viable?
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
23 Mar 2019, 00:48
#10
23 Mar 2019, 00:48#10

I do like the no travel bit though.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2019, 02:57
#11
23 Mar 2019, 02:57#11

Silly Billy

Brilliant Idea  - why don't you suggest it for the European Rugby Champions Cup as well.  And don't say it is not a comparable competition.

The Cup series followed an example introduced as an idea of Louis Luyt in 1993 in the SH Hemisphere and was implemented in 1995 when rugby really became a professional sport.   Fact is that a similar competition was envisaged to what already existed in the SH countries.   

Because the European Cup was not to interfere with the normal often enough sub-par club competitions in individual countries it became a kind of competition based  on a Pool system with a total of 6 games per year for individual clubs before  getting through to the top 8 and then quartrfinals and semiplay-offs.  Please don't tell me that the NH rugby is based on the pool system and explain to everyone whether the difference between a pool system and the conference system is not merely adifferent names given to essentially the same thing.  

So why not suggest that the Pool system in the European Cup should be abolished - like they new did with the Conference system - and each club play every other club in the competition.   Can be done - but then the rubbish clubs would have to be cut out and the number of teams reduced to not more than 14 and then they play on a League basis.   That would NOT be done because it would interfere with the over-hyped competitions in individual countries, See how far such an  idea would get you.    

No Silly Billy - the sponsors and TV rights people will laugh their arses off.   And the travel excuse is not all that relevant.   There used to be travel problems, but that was reduced  when the  play-off system was replaced by quarter and semi-finals being played followed by the final.

             

 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
23 Mar 2019, 12:04
#12
23 Mar 2019, 12:04#12
Yeah, scum wolves our out. Now to get rid of the bargies and 1 kiwi team. Then we will have the super 12 we all want.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
23 Mar 2019, 12:49
#13
23 Mar 2019, 12:49#13
“Brilliant Idea - why don't you suggest it for the European Rugby Champions Cup as well. And don't say it is not a comparable competition.” It is absolutely not a comparable competition. All the games are either on the Continent or within a short hop over the Channel. The only times where there is even a time difference are those played during the times when the UK is on GMT when the time difference is one hour. As from this Sunday, there is no time difference again when we switch to BST.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2019, 16:06
#14
23 Mar 2019, 16:06#14

Ceradunce

Did you really understand what I wrote,  I deal with the format of the game and the stupidity of Silly Billy and some others who wrote about a League competition.

I did not say even a word about the time and travel issue - only a fool would not know what you are harping on - total ignorance as per normal.   Why is travel such an issue in the later stages of the competition,  but not in earlier games?   LMAO    

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Mar 2019, 18:34
#15
23 Mar 2019, 18:34#15

Final score, too lazy to ask G.

— END OF THREAD —

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