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FORUM / RUGBY /  Super Rugby farce if Lions win title

Super Rugby farce if Lions win title

Started by ABasquefan38 REPLIES983 VIEWS· 13 May 2017, 23:47
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AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
13 May 2017, 23:47
#1
13 May 2017, 23:47#1
Super Rugby farce if Lions win title

By Gregor Paul


Courtnall Skosan of the Lions celebrates a try during the round 11 Super Rugby match between the Rebels and the Lions. Photo / Getty Images.

With all due respect to the Lions, who play a nice brand of football and aren't a bad team at all, it will be ridiculous, bordering on wrong, should they end up being crowned Super Rugby champions in 2017.

For the good of Super Rugby - Southern Hemisphere rugby - the Lions can't become champions this year. It will turn a comedy into a tragedy.


The faintly ridiculous nonsense of stage-managed finals places based on geography is tolerated at the moment for the simple reason that last year at least, despite the discrepancies in quality across the conferences and the daft restrictions on wild cards, no one disputed that the eight best teams made the knockout rounds.

The Hurricanes, who looked like the champion side in the last six weeks, were indeed able to win their first title and do it all at home, which gave the structure a justification of sorts.


But if the Lions are able to secure the number one ranking at the end of conference play this year and go on to win a maiden title in Johannesburg, Super Rugby's credibility will be stretched beyond breaking point and its reputation will be in tatters.

A title for them will be a victory for a lop-sided, ill-conceived format. Should they win, they can rightly argue that they could only beat the teams put in front of them, but that's kind of the point.

There won't be any New Zealand sides put in front of them until the knock-out rounds, and even then, looking at how things are shaping up, probably won't happen until the semifinals.

And that just can't be the right way to go about winning a title fairly. The quality and intensity of rugby in the New Zealand Conference is beyond any dispute, head and shoulders, higher than anywhere else.


Only one non-New Zealand side, the Stormers, has managed to claim a Kiwi scalp this year.

But forget the tangible assessments for a moment and work more on observation and gut feel to determine which are the best teams this year. That's more important - fans know what they are watching, can see which teams are better than others.

By this stage of the season it becomes fairly obvious who the most serious contenders are: which teams are playing the most effective and consistent rugby.


On that top list are the Crusaders, Chiefs and Hurricanes. Everything about them screams possible eventual winners. The usual variables - a bit of unexpected magic, a horrible mistake, a terrible refereeing call - should determine which one of them actually goes on to win.

But it should be one of those three who wins because they have the best players, the most depth, the highest skill levels, the best ability to deal with pressure and are most effectively marrying their gameplan to their respective personnel.

These are the things that matter and in the normal course of events should be ultimately rewarded.


But Super Rugby doesn't do normal course of events because the Lions, who, along with the Highlanders, sit half a step down from the top group, are nudging towards favourite status based not on their ability, but the softness of their path to glory.

To imagine they could end up champions by avoiding playing a New Zealand side until the semifinals doesn't feel right and for all that they are a good team, it won't feel good for Super Rugby to be crowning them champions this year.


- NZ Herald

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
13 May 2017, 23:48
#2
13 May 2017, 23:48#2
 cannot be more agreed
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,260 posts
14 May 2017, 01:23
#3
14 May 2017, 01:23#3
The Lions would have been more deserving last year as they played New Zealand teams
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
14 May 2017, 04:23
#4
14 May 2017, 04:23#4
 The Lions indeed deserved their finals playoff last year .Why the p!sspoor Aussie teams this year get a home playoff is just shameful.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
14 May 2017, 07:43
#5
14 May 2017, 07:43#5
 
Well ... you were given the 2011 WC so why not give you the SR title. You can even select who gets it this year ... and then perhaps award it to another Kiwi side next year.

Then you can go around and strutt ... telling yourselves and the world how wonderful you are and how the rest of us suck.

I still think you should consider my suggestion of excluding the rest of the teams from the SR competition.

We're mere commoners ... not worthy of you guys.

Same goes for the Rugby Championships. The All Blacks should rather have a home series between their A & B sides. Leave us low lives to scrap it out for the crumbs left in your wake.



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 May 2017, 08:03
#6
14 May 2017, 08:03#6
 Interesting idea CC.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
14 May 2017, 08:55
#7
14 May 2017, 08:55#7
 Well the Lions did beat all but one Kiwi side last year. So I guess the opening point of the article IE that they're "not a bad team" shouldn't be seen as the condescending horse shiiite that it appears to be.



RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
14 May 2017, 09:32
#8
14 May 2017, 09:32#8
Pah!
No wonder the Kiwi sides are doing well this year. They only have to play the Hapless Stompies, the Choking Cheetahs and the Blundering Bulls. Would be a different story if they had to play the Lions, the Sharks and the Kings!
The draw is rigged in favour of the soft New Zealand sides!
Go Lions!
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
14 May 2017, 10:59
#9
14 May 2017, 10:59#9
 "telling yourselves and the world how wonderful you are and how the rest of us suck"
"We're mere commoners ... not worthy of you guys."
"Leave us low lives to scrap it out for the crumbs left in your wake."

amazing how people loves to play the victim to avoid the discussion point,....



the fact is that this 18 teams format sucks,.... it's completely unfair and it would be a total farce if the Lions take the home advantage for the finals having not played any of the 5 NZ teams (but all the aussie teams)

it's very simple and doubt very much that anyone can argue against it

the total points of the 5 NZ teams is 197,.... the 5 aussie teams have 70 points (only the saders have almost more points)
last year during the regular season the Lions lost against the Highlanders (in Dunedin) and were thumped by the canes and saders at home,.... they won the chiefs and blues,..... and this year they very surely would have lost another 3 or 4 games (we'll never know but for the game they are playing I doubt very much they could win more than 2 games),.... with those 3-4 losses they wouldn't be opting to top the overall table as they are now


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
14 May 2017, 11:24
#10
14 May 2017, 11:24#10
 
So it's ok for the Kiwi sides to qualify then... they deserve it, huh? ... even though they haven't played against the Sharks, Kings or Lions this season?

Are you that arrogant to assume a complete whitewash over these sides?


 

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
14 May 2017, 11:37
#11
14 May 2017, 11:37#11
 Yep.....
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
14 May 2017, 12:22
#12
14 May 2017, 12:22#12
 @CC,
"Are you that arrogant to assume a complete whitewash over these sides?"

do you read the comments before answering them or you just answer whatever first come to your head?
I just posted abve your comment that I would have expected the Lions to win 1 or 2 games against kiwi opposition,.... so very hardly can I be "that arrogant to assume a complete whitewash over these sides"


and let's put it other way,.... from what we've seen from each side this year and the points they already have, there's a group of dominant teams,.... these are the Saders, Chiefs, Hurricanes and we don't know if the Lions can be included in it (you can include it if you want),.... then there's the following group, where I would include the Lions, with the landers and Blues,.... and then there's the rest of the teams

from these 6 top performing sides, the Lions won't face any of them, the Lions are not going to play any of the rest 5 top teams,.... while the NZ sides won't face only the Lions,... each NZ side have to even play twice 2 of these top teams,.... so each NZ side have to play 6 games against the top 6 teams, while the Lions won't face the other top 6 teams at all,... that's the difference,.... and the farce of the comp

the sharks and the kings, really?
they are not in the same league,.... not even close

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
14 May 2017, 13:44
#13
14 May 2017, 13:44#13
 cc, we're not arrogant we just know we're better than the other teams 
Thank God SA has the Lions as it is the only glimmer of light shining from the SA rugby scene right now. Beeno's wee stormers have potential but they are made up of wee pl ayers & this limits them.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 May 2017, 13:55
#14
14 May 2017, 13:55#14
Actually in some ways the opposite is true. The Stormers were clearly unprepared to face their NZ opponents. They hadn't been forced to examine their weaknesses, given the opportunity to pressure test their game.....and it showed. The Lions are at a disadvantage going into the playoffs not having played tough opposition. So the argument has to hinge on home field advantage. If the Lions get home field advantage throughout the playoffs, their disadvantage will be nullified, perhaps even reversed. We don't know. . As for them not being in the same league ....,when NZ teams came to RSA last year in the playoffs they were beaten by 17 and 12 points by the Lions. The Lions then travelled to NZ and lost by a mirror image 17 points. It's hard and somewhat lacking in sportsmanship to make your argument that the teams are not in the same league.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
14 May 2017, 14:17
#15
14 May 2017, 14:17#15
 are you going gaga, or what?

I never said that Lions are not in the same league as NZ teams,..... I was talking about Kings and sharks,... and, in fact, my argument was about including the Lions in the same league, in the top 6, with the NZ teams

rest of your post,... another delirium
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 May 2017, 14:30
#16
14 May 2017, 14:30#16
'We don't know if the Lions can be included"....then there is a lower group including the Bloos where you would include the Lions? The bs is pouring out of your mouth. Just the usual narrow, arrogant ignorance.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
14 May 2017, 15:50
#17
14 May 2017, 15:50#17
 what a waste of time you are,...

so "we don't know if the Lions can be included in it (you can include it if you want)", is according to you "the usual narrow, arrogant ignorance" and "the bs is pouring out of your mouth"?

way out of place,... it's pathetic (and very probably for not recognizing that you misread my post)
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 May 2017, 17:27
#18
14 May 2017, 17:27#18
 Woosh!
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
14 May 2017, 17:59
#19
14 May 2017, 17:59#19
 "I just posted abve your comment that I would have expected the Lions to win 1 or 2 games against kiwi opposition"
Yeah, not arrogant at all.  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,260 posts
14 May 2017, 17:59
#20
14 May 2017, 17:59#20
New Zealand has teams that are capable of beating the Lions at home. The Crusaders on current form could almost certainly beat any team away. 
It is also an advantage for New Zealand teams to play the Australians points fodder system, and avoid the Lions. (and not have a long tour to South Africa).
A short trip to Ozzieland them back home again.
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
14 May 2017, 18:07
#21
14 May 2017, 18:07#21
The only fair way to settle this argument is as follows:
Reduce each country to 3 teams (Oz, NZ & RSA)Japan one.Argentina one.Pacific Islanders one.
Now if that is not suitable to you guys increase the OZ, NZ & RSA teams to 4 each and drop the other countries
Thus u then have 12 teams and make it a home and away game series.
Some will suggest that there would be excessive travel and expense (perhaps) and additional stress on the players. As far as the players are concerned all hogwash, they are professionals and will go wherever they are required to play. I for one would rather see a team who have won most if not all the games win the tournament as opposed to some rugby boards dreaming up ways to put in a fix.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 May 2017, 18:17
#22
14 May 2017, 18:17#22
 Woosh...woosh...and then some Super Woosh!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 May 2017, 23:04
#23
14 May 2017, 23:04#23
Basque never uncertain often wrong....and snippy about it.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
15 May 2017, 01:03
#24
15 May 2017, 01:03#24
 @plum,

please, learn to use the keyboard,.... it's not rocket science

so, according to you, is arrogant to expect last year's same result?



but what to expect from someone who doesn't know how to type correctly a post?






BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 May 2017, 06:46
#25
15 May 2017, 06:46#25
 What a laugh ou Ab ASS is. Here he is squealing about the Lions winning even before it has happened. You will be hard pressed to beat this in terms of squealing! I am sure ou JW would agree! But what can you expect from a loon who believes in man made climate change. Anyhow ou ab ASS is always good for a laugh. Bwahahahhahahahahahaha
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 May 2017, 06:48
#26
15 May 2017, 06:48#26
 Moreover Ab ASS completely ignores the 20 point ref advantage the kiwis always have. Thou ght it necessary to remind he bonehead of this.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 May 2017, 07:36
#27
15 May 2017, 07:36#27
 Haha Basqetard 
My phone makes the font size bigger and I can't change it.
Just like your ego makes you opinion of yourself big and you can't change. Alas we work with what we have.
Nice gif of The Brock. Guy's awesome. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 May 2017, 14:45
#28
15 May 2017, 14:45#28
 I doubt if any Kiwi teams give a bugger if they play the Lions or not .At the very least a Lions win would maybe stop some saffas from walking away from the game altogether .Personally I dont care if we give the other  teams a hand up ,makes it all the better if we win eh ?As for our teams having the better of the travelling ? Really ? Are we to blame for geography or the way the earth turns now ? How about the Jaguares  ? How about their travelling ?
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 May 2017, 16:28
#29
15 May 2017, 16:28#29
 I'm all for  shorter Super Rugby season with less teams, playing each other twice and then the highest 4 teams compete in the semis. 
Something like two teams from NZ, OZ, SA plus Bargie plus Sunwolves. That'll make 14 table games prior to the semis and finals. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 May 2017, 19:17
#30
15 May 2017, 19:17#30
 WD, I'm not complaining about the travel, but it's a fact and a big factor....ask any player. The current conference system makes it easier for an SA team to land on top of the points table, getting a guaranteed home final, should they keep on winning, but now some NZders seems to think traveling is unfair. Your team beat the Stormers at Newlands last year, but then the travel got to you the next match. That's what make it such a tough competition and why winning the whole thing is such an achievement. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 May 2017, 19:32
#31
15 May 2017, 19:32#31
Basquetard or Basquetcase?
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 May 2017, 19:36
#32
15 May 2017, 19:36#32
"Basquetard or Basquetcase?"
Wehe, looks like someone is still very bitter about all the humiliating beatings he's taken from ABasque on the climate change and other debates.
Look on the bright side, Moffie, maybe your Gimps didn't see you get all that egg all over your fat face . . . or maybe they're too stupid to even know what a pounding you took!
Waaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 May 2017, 20:12
#33
15 May 2017, 20:12#33
Say RooiAAAs......did you congratulate the Kings. .... LMAOFY!
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
15 May 2017, 22:12
#34
15 May 2017, 22:12#34
If the Stormers beat the Blues this Saturday, they'll have the same record as the Lions last year against NZ competition in the regular season.
Lions are not the same team that they were last year. Team doesn't have the same energy and impetus they had last season when they were really running up the score. The off season Japanese duty and now with some players starting to feature in the Bok setup and the extra work it means is starting to take its toll. Last year's team would not have had close wins against the lowly Brumbies, Cheetahs, Force, Jaguares - they would have blown them away.
Regardless, the Lions home field advantage is like nothing else because the effect of altitude is significant. Anyone who has lived in another part of the country and had to travel up there to play sports can attest to that burn in the lungs. Its certainly enough of a factor in a closely matched contest to swing it to the Lions favour. There is a reason many professional teams got to the expense of altitude training.


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
16 May 2017, 01:27
#35
16 May 2017, 01:27#35
 Say RooiAAAs......did you congratulate the Kings.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
16 May 2017, 11:20
#36
16 May 2017, 11:20#36
 
In the end it's always best that all team play against each other ... home and away.

I wonder who came up with this stupid conference thing ... the Kiwis?

Wouldn't surprise me.

 


MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
16 May 2017, 11:47
#37
16 May 2017, 11:47#37
 Tiresome CC.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 May 2017, 12:08
#38
16 May 2017, 12:08#38
 Rooitwit did you congratulate the Kings?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 May 2017, 12:12
#39
16 May 2017, 12:12#39
 I appeal to all kbbs to dry up your tears about how unfair it is regarding the Lions.JW could you help your fellow KBBS to man up. BIG task of course. This is all so unbecoming on a rugby website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For those interested google the man made climate change hoax dumbasses like ab ASS pedal as scientific fact. These loons need locking up.
— END OF THREAD —

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