MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Feb 2019, 22:07#1
There are some who believe endless, sterile phase play is the answer....but the key Scottish tries that broke Italy came from tactical kicks. A long cross kick and a grubber over the line both set up tries.
The Boks have no tactical kicking game....no kick chase....no players who look to open themselves up for the kick. Too often we simply grind away at half pace. Tactical kicking makes the running game more effective....we need a kicking coach who appreciates the tactic, and players who react. Morons like Allende and Kriel will never react like a Stuart Hogg to a chance opened by a well placed kick.
02 Feb 2019, 23:40#3
Wait a minute. Something ain’t right. What you’re describing requires the back line coming into play but we’ve been told, time and time again, that the kicking game is the typical shyte ten man game, started by Naas Botha.
How now brown cow?

sharkbok
Captain23,252 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,252 posts
02 Feb 2019, 23:45#4
It is hard for a team to mimic the game plan followed by Naas, because his kicking ability was much better than most kickers- so it is hard to replicate as a "blue" print....
03 Feb 2019, 15:30#7
“You know our local duds do not know the difference between strategic (tactical) kicking and aimless kicking. ”
Are you saying that strategy is synonymous to tactics? It surely looks like that.
Having said that, I don’t think that it was really a matter of one coach “out strategising” another. It was more a matter of one team’s execution of the game plan being way better than that of the other.
The first thing that comes to mind is that the number of kicking was fairly evenly spread. I haven’t checked the stats yet but I’m not too sure that one team kicked significantly more or significantly less than the other.
The big difference was the execution. Youngs’ kicking was way more accurate than that of Connors. Combine the accurate kicking of Youngs with the relentless chasing down of those kick and subsequent competing for the ball, and you already have a winning chance.
The next big difference between the teams was the deadly defence of England. They pinned down Ireland behind the advantage line with dead eye one on one tackling.
The game plan was simple. Bully them up front, defend like tigers, kick accurately, chase down the kicks and compete for the ball and the rest will sort out itself.
Now where have we seen that before?
England’s only weakness was the line outs. Once Itoje and Kruis left the field, they seemed to have lost the linout edge. They seem to be a bit short on backup in the lock dept. Granted, Lawes has been absent for quite some
time and should improve in time to come.

sharkbok
Captain23,252 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,252 posts
03 Feb 2019, 19:35#8
kicking from the first phase is rarely going to be successful. That is where it always falls apart for SA teams. The All Blacks kick but never from the first phase, instead, they carry the ball up suck in defenders, then kick into space.
SA teams also overdo the aimless up and under due to lack of a game plan. Morne or whoever will kick without chasers in position, or too far for chasers to apply any pressure.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Feb 2019, 22:39#9
Once again we are dealingwith pure unadulterated Riversdale strond. Here are the match stats:
Kicks out of hand....Ireland 31/England 32
Runs ....Ireland 160/ England 105
Passes Ireland 202/ England 113.
So in fact England kicked the ball 12.8 % of the time, whereas Ireland kicked the ball 7.9% of the time. As is so often the case the team that kicks more wins the game.
And the outstanding Connor Murray had nothing to do with the loss.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Feb 2019, 17:04#10
And here are the Boks against Wales in November:
Boks 24, 185,139.....kicks, passes, runs = 6.9% kicks
Wales 28, 125, 10 = 10.9% kicks
Vs England
Boks 27, 155, 130 = 8.7%
England 35, 145, 105 = 12.3%
.........
So contrary to the Riversdale Strond.....the winning teams often kick more and the Boks are losing in part because of ineffective kicking, Shark's point, not because we kick too much.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Feb 2019, 01:40#11
Match we lost against NZ ......NZ kicked 11.9% of the time, Boks kicked 7.2% of the time.
Match we won against NZ ......NZ kicked 2% of the time.....the Boks kicked 12.8% of the time.
Kicking more is NOT correlated with losing .....for the Boks in 2018 it was correlated with winning.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Feb 2019, 20:03#14
Murray has a great boot....distance and placement. And I agree Corn, nobody wants to go back to the old up and under ping pong.
But grubber kicks over the line.
Long kicks behind an out of place defence.
Openside cross kicks.
High balls coming down on the goal line during penalty advantage...
.....are tactics that are yielding results for other test teams. The Boks did almost none of this....and they have no organized kick chase. Erasmus has left this dimension totally undeveloped.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Feb 2019, 07:24#15
And again today....a well placed tactical kick and a Scottish mistake got Ireland going. The speed of the defences today dictates a mix of ball in hand and purposeful tactical kicking.
We have no kicking game.....it's a huge void.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Feb 2019, 18:16#16
And again....kicking played a huge role in the Pom demolition of the Frogs. Grubber kicks, cross kicks and especially long rolling kicks to the corners.
The Poms kicked 14.3% of the time.....France kicked 9.5% of their possessions. Another data point suggestingthe team that kicks more and kicks smartly, wins the game.
11 Feb 2019, 18:38#17
I was thinking the same while watching the game. And I’m no fan of Owen Farrel by any means but he had a good game. That long pass to set up the try in the corner was brilliant. Right into the breadbasket of the receiver.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
14 Feb 2019, 20:37#18
Fantasy Rugby doesn't really reward kicking. Sure your nominated place kicker earns you decent points in Fantasy Rugby but there are no Fantasy Rugby points for tactical kicking . . . unless the kick results in a try in which case the kicker will score a few Fantasy Rugby points for an assist.
In Fantasy Rugby you want players who beat tackles, make a lot of metres and make try-scoring passes. Tactical kicking doesn' t count for much in Fantasy Rugby.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
14 Feb 2019, 21:19#19
I forgot to mention, drop goal should be devalued to s ingle point.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Feb 2019, 21:49#20
And again yesterday, the Chiefs scored brilliantly off a superb open side cross kick. If the Stormers had any effective tactical kicking game they could have slowed the Bools rush defence....instead it was the Bools via Pollard and Kriel who showcased that tactic.