10 Percy Montgomery.
9. Francois Louw.
8. Jan Pickard.
7. Naas Botha.
6. Adi Jacobs.
5. Jannie Englebrecht.
4. Jack van der Skyff
3. Chiliboy Ralepelle
2. Morne Steyn.
1. Luke Watson.
A list of guys who for various reasons really let the side down. And others like Pickard, Louw, Monty, Jannie, Adi and Morne who were unpopular, mostly regionally.
For a time Watson was lauded as the best flank in the game. He had the rugby public in his palm if it weren't for politics. What a spectacular implosion. A little Kaepernick in some respects.
Considering the media pressure to oust Morné in 2011, I'd have him as #1. I haven't seen anything like that before or since.
I never saw Jack, but heard the stories.
I don't think Adi was hated as much as he wasn't rated. Peter went against the grain demoting Fourie. Considering Fourie literally ran over Adi four times in their encounter in 2009's super rugby fixture, it didn't look good. Pressure mounted after that first Lions test.
Other Candidates
John Smit: Smit. He was pressured before the 2007 World Cup and then throughout the Peter years. He was given a hard time by Peter and the media, but took some truly degrading circumstances with an air of dignity and humility.
I can't think of anyone else just yet. Lots of negativity directed towards some of our players, but most hated?
Some of the above are way off the mark. In the era before the 1980's there were advanced levels of provincialism in SA. I can remember that when I arrived in Pretoria to start in my first job the first thing said to me at the station was whether I support that disgusting WP team. A friend of mine and I went to a CC final in the 1960's in WP regalia and as we went up the pavilion was greeted by a nectarine shower, That day Engelbrecht broke his collar bone and score two magnificent tries, As the match went on the crowd got quieter and quitter,
Of your list of players only three who were really substandard players from a performance perspective and that was the three marked 1, 2 and 3
Here's an interesting read for those, such as myself, who are too young to have memories of some of those players.
THIS PICTURE SAYS AN AWFUL LOT ABOUT THE BEAUTIFUL BUT SOMETIMES SAD GAME OF RUGBY
I love this old picture. There is so much about it that has come down the years. And on a personal level when I saw it as a kid I was first drawn to it by seeing our 'family name' on the advertising hoarding in the background.
The shot was taken late in the first test of the 1955 test series between South Africa and the touring British Isles. The British Lions were leading by one point and a successful kick would have won the game for the Springboks. Alas the kicker, the South African fullback Jack van der Schyff, sent the ball wide and the Lions won minutes later by 23-22.
See the disappointment in his body language but see also that the miss was a shock to others in the huge crowd - certainly to the keeper of the scoreboard in the background! He had left a slot open to put a new successful new total in for South Africa WHEN the kick went over!
On the Lions side there was apparently deep relief; the great Welshman Cliff Morgan reckoned that one of his teammates said out loud when he saw the ball fly wide, 'Hey boys! Thank goodness we all went to Chapel last Sunday!'
Recently I found out a lot more about Jack van der Schyff. And it is quite a story. In those dark days of South Africa's apartheid policies he was a man of colour. And the missed kick here seemed to play a role in his future life. And concerning THAT kick; though he had landed four other successful shots at goal in the same game, the miss cost him his place in the Springbok story. He never pulled on the South African colours again.
This from the writings of great Danie Craven; "Jack van der Schyff was undoubtedly badly treated by the selectors. He first came to my attention in Kimberley where I commanded a physical training battalion during the war. I had seen him playing for Kimberley Boys High against C.B.C. and other schools in the area and I saw him land kick after kick from the halfway line and further out.
One day he walked into my office wanting to join the battalion. I told him: "Jack, you can play for any first rugby team in Kimberley but I have on my staff a man named Ronnie Ackerman who has played for England. You will not be able to take his place in our first team." But Jack played on with us and with the retirement of Ackerman he moved up to the first XV. Jack was so good he eventually made the Springboks for all four tests against the All Blacks in 1949."
This from another writer; "Jack was part-black, sufficient enough that rugby officials (and obviously the South African government when it introduced the Group Areas Act and other assorted apartheid legislation from 1948 onwards) looked the other way. The fact that he had so called Bantu heritage but could still play for the Springboks in the 50's tells you all you need to know about the absurdity and pointlessness of apartheid. It was a ridiculous and an inhumane farce masquerading as social policy."
Jack van der Schyff died in 2001.
In one published obituary his missed kick and its aftermath - and the photograph - was recalled.
"The big, running fullback who played his provincial rugby for Griquas, Western Transvaal and Rhodesia, will be buried on Thursday.
Van der Schyff, who died at the weekend, had a bypass operation several years ago and his health remained poor.
His worst moment in rugby was captured in a photograph from in front of the posts showing the kicker in the foreground turning away, his head bowed in disappointment. The ball in the famous photograph is passing to the left of the uprights.
As a result of the missed conversion the British Lions won the 1955 Ellis Park test by one point, 23-22, and the kicker, Jack van der Schyff, after this match never wore the green-and-gold jersey again.
Van der Schyff played all four tests against the 1949 All Blacks in South Africa but soon after that he was involved in a mine accident and headed north, spending time in Kitwe in Northern Rhodesia, on what was to become the Zambian Copper Belt.
There he indulged his passion for hunting big game, including crocodiles and elephant.
According to his good friend Daan du Toit who employed him in later life, Van der Schyff met Joan whom he later married while working in Zambia.
In 1954 the two returned to South Africa to get married and in 1955 Van der Schyff was chosen out of the blue to face Robin Thompson's Lions in the first of four tests.
The Ellis Park test aroused phenomenal interest, sales on the black market flourished and a crowd of between 90 000 and 100 000 watched the match.
"I remember him telling me that just before he took that kick he was involved in a terrific tackle," says Du Toit. "One guy got him round the shoulders and another player around the ankles and he was dizzy.
"He told Stephen Fry, the Springbok captain, that he didn't want to take the kick, but Fry said: 'No, you must kick'. He took the kick and we all know what happened after that."
According to Tommy Gentles, the scrumhalf who kept the ball steady before Van der Schyff attempted that fateful conversion, he remembers no such incident, although he didn't say that it never happened. "I just remember that match as a marvellous game of rugby," said Gentles.
"Jack always used to say that I held the ball skew and I used to tell him that it was his kicking that was at fault!"
Despite being shunned by the national selectors after that, Van der Schyff continued playing provincial and club rugby. "I played with him in his last game of club rugby, for the Old Waterpan club in Randfontein," says Du Toit.
"We were in the second team together. I was just a donkey in the front row, but old Jack was a fine player. Earlier in his career they wanted to play him on the flank. He would clap his hands for the ball sometimes when his team was putting the ball into the scrum. The scrumhalf would pass straight to him at fullback and he would drop it over the posts."
After his international rugby career Van der Schyff worked as a shift-boss on the Deelkraal mine in Carletonville. Later Du Toit employed him as a driver.
[www.keithquinnrugby.com adds - see elsewhere on this 'Favourite Photos' website how I loved seeing the location of the famous shot for myself - The perfect advertising brand placement was still in place when i visited the Ellis Park ground as a young reporter in 1976, 21 years after the famous photograph.
In those days a lost test was followed by what was effectively a national day of mourning. Roy Dryburgh who replaced van der Skyff was a big success in the series. As were von Vollenhoven, Briers, Rosenberg and Sinclair. Some three quarter line!
Still it's sad to see a man's whole life impacted by an error.
I caught the tale end of the amateur era. The Boks had some aura even then. I miss that.
Damien de Alende
PSDT
Pat Lambie
Elton Jantjies
Damian is one of the media darlings. He has never had to face criticism for his shoddy performances. Neither Steph. Lambie made a living out of media adoration. Elton is the only player on that list who has endured criticism. He just so happens to be the more talented of the group.
Jislaaik, Flo Louw & his oupa
Does this connect to the 100 cap Bok captain Notshe?
Mozart started threads on some players - sometimes two or even three a week and the only thing they contained was total prejudiced hatred. Those players he disliked was normally given degrading nicknames as well. The moment he came with a nickname you would know it represent total dislike.
So the latest coach is Eraser and despite the WC win his nickname remains Eraser.
AO followed and copies everything Mozart does - but he also have another way to discredit players, He described in great details their dreamed up "failures" and then promote other players with no real merits to replace them.
In doing that they claim to analyze games in a desperate effort to blame their pet hate players for things they did in games - if there was nothing - they would discover something and then "proved" that it did happen. Most of the "proof" is imaginary and not realistic at all. If such players score tries or made a contribution to tries being scored they simply ignore that it happened,
There is that tendency not to even look at their own favoured players mistakes - and the easy way out is to blame their disliked players for the mistakes made by their favourites, But to oppose them on site is even a worse thing to do and the result is more personal attacks than anyone can imagine.
Yet they make site membership really worthwhile and not a waste of time - the result is predictable. It is fun to see what they will come up with and then to respond after a bout of laughter, Really funny those two are, but they are also known egg mountains which is added to after each test,
"Posted by: sharkbok (10079 posts)
Nov 13, 2019, 23:32Bob Skinstad was hated by the Afrikaans community. "
Not true, all WP supports liked Bobby...and by extension Percy, but the Blue Bulls and Cheetahs I knew couldn't stand them.
I have my own ways. I use videos, diagrams, annotated screenshots, stats, etc. What I have put forward is always verifiable in-game. The angry and bitter crowd is always at odds with every type of analysis. The only form of defence they have is the mud sling. It's the same pattern each and every day.
Quite interesting that Damme Omlett speaks of hate. What could be more riddled with hate than a person who stalks people online? Eagerly gleaning every piece of information they can to further the cause. Valuing property, income, invading social media, gathering photos, and any other thing possible, all to attack the targeted individual. If that isn't enough, follow that target around the internet. I call that sad little individual 'Notmozart'. It's a reminder of their worst nightmare. They are not and never will be Moz. No amount of mudslinging can change that fate. You are just you, a very unfulfilled and frustrated shadow of a man, miserable because you don't receive the adoration and respect you know you deserve. So, you have to vent that frustration through the might of your keyboard. As I have come to know, when put on the line, you are a coward as well. When challenged, your expertise on any given topic is embarrassingly exposed. Ende.
AO
What you call analysis by the means mentioned as using is never accurate and largely based on prejudice against the players you consistently attack on site. You have always been wrong when it came to player and coaching assessments because you to o often dream up things nobody else see in the players you laud,
Your assessment of the coaching by Erasmus is a typical example of total distortion. Sorry - if you were objective at all most members would appreciate your contribution as against laughing you off the board totally.
Inaccurate... Prejudice... Always wrong...
W hen? Resurrect any past thread/post and show me where this is the case. Hasn't it dawned on you that you are seen as dishonest and flawed yourself? How many times have you been called out as a liar? I've been reading through many past posts and I've even seen your little allies calling you out and/or laughing at you. You bring nothing to the table. You have the gall to call other members useless and worthless, calling for them to be removed from the site, but what do you actually bring? Team sheets? Some fantasy rugby twaddle. What else is there? You stunt discussions each and every day. Telling someone they are stupid doesn't disprove them. Quite the contrary, it makes you look incompetent and entirely emotionally driven. None of this will have any bearing on your future behaviour. If you have lived this long successfully shielding yourself from the truth, who can possibly reach you?
You have just about never been right - to look at what you write and then believe the exact opposite is the way to go, I never called for anybody to be removed from site - what I called for is some sanity on the part of members - but that sanity issue is where you fail totally - so you may think that it is equivalent to a call for dismissal from the Board.
I do not stunt discussions at all - I just point out the endless BS you write on site and how you dream up nonsense that you pretend is real. I would not dare stop your twaddle - it is so ridiculous it is a source of great enjoyment and an ideal opportunity to have a real good laugh about it by thinking members.
How did you miss guys like Jorrie Muller, Earl Rose and, nowadays, Ashwin Willemse?
The Baard......is this the real Baard after all these years?
Yes, same me. Can't believe you guys are still going on as if nothing ever happened in the last 15 years.
Well, well, well ... didn't think I'd see a post from you again.
Welcome.
Where the hell have you been??
The Baard
You must have gone before I joined the first time and I hope you stay on this time for further nice rugby discussions.
Hell welcome aboard Baard...hope you stick around.
No Mike ... Baard was a regular back in the day on Super Sport.
I'm surprised that you don't remember him.
He's a knowledgeable lad ... a Bulls fan if I remember correctly.
Do you remember jIMMYhENDRIX?
I wonder whatever happened to him?
Duke was also a regular. He had health issues though. I wonder if he's still kicking?
There was quite a lot of regulars on site - also from NZ after the All Blacks site managers losed down their discussion forum - but they have largely disappeared. Maybe Beeno had a hand in that, I particularly miss Sasuke - he was always objective and our leaders in Fantasy comps. Wish he would come back.
Then we had a couple of members who constantly changed their user names or in between used other names together with their own. Easy to identify because they were consistent in what they wrote on site.
And then w e had some very knowledgeable members like Biltongbek and Ole Cruz who were driven off site after being pursued by some of the members they differ from - one has to have a particularly thick skin when dealing with members like Mozart and AO for instance.
Maybe I did not pay particular attention to Die Baard because he was a Bulls supporter. LOL
"Mozart started threads on some players - sometimes two or even three a week and the only thing they contained was total prejudiced hatred."
Is Stade Francais trying to get rid of Morne Steyn
"May 15, 2014, 15:31
A report and photo showed him together with the Paris St Germain Rugby Club and he himself posted the photo. Could be - because he was a serious and very expensive flop for Stade Francais.
As I understand it both Stade Francais and Paris st Germain at one stage belonged to the same owner - and the article on the issue quoted them as sister clubs.
However, Paris St Germain is not a Top 14 club and it seems that they are a second level club with no representation in the French international team.
If this arrangement proceeds I believe it would be a massive comedown for Steyn - a second level club in France and he is he to be considered for the Springbok team? That would be a disgrace and I hope it does not happen. "
Biltongbek was a fool. One of the main proponents of ball in hand rugby and abandoning the power game. Same sort of rubbish you believe Muck.
But I never had acrimonious relations with him....he just got miffed because his views weren't universally accepted.
And just in case the penny hasn't dropped yet Ole Cruz isn't Tomás Lavanini. Ole and I got on like a house on fire. I was, however, the first poster to support poi-e when outed Ole, after which Ole disappeared having totally fooled the likes of Muck, Bloubok and Peeper
You need thick skin when dealing with me? Only if you are an illiterate, innumerate and uneducated compulsive li ar. Does this hit too close for comfort Mr Clever?
No dealing with you is like handling a middle age man with the mentality of a three-year old little boy and a totally absent knowledge of rugby. Amusing - but totally demented most of the time.
No Mozart
He was critical of the stupidity of rugby played under Meyer and you claimed all along to be the only game in town - ten man rugby with 90% of the function of flyhalfs to kick balls. Your own definition as to what rugby entails.
Funny how you suddenly embrace comprehensive rugby as a game - something you opposed all out in the past. Nobody ever supported what you claim they did. They were just opposed to the repetitive junk played at the time.
You even had the audacity to claim there was no such thing as aimless kicking and never bothered about poor execution. Most people who opposed the rubbish during the Meyer and Coetzee eras were constantly under vicious attack by you.
"and you claimed all along to be the only game in town"
