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FORUM / RUGBY /  Thank you... Coetzee looks like he is toast (Toetsie lays into SARU)

Thank you... Coetzee looks like he is toast (Toetsie lays into SARU)

Started by sharkbok48 REPLIES1,786 VIEWS· 27 Jan 2018, 17:24
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,256 posts
27 Jan 2018, 17:24
#1
27 Jan 2018, 17:24#1

Coetzee lays into SARU



Allister Coetzee (Gallo)



  • Cape Town - Springbok coach Allister Coetzee has written an explosive letter addressed to South African Rugby Union (SARU) CEO Jurie Roux in which he attacks the South African game's governing body.

    According to several South African media reports, Coetzee sent a 19-page document via his legal representatives to Roux in a bid to show that almost all of the problems during his two-year tenure are due to external factors

    Coetzee has only won 11 of his 25 Tests in charge of the two-time world champions since his appointment in 2016. 

    The 54-year-old's biggest defence in the letter is his meeting with Roux on 18 January in where he alleges the SA Rugby boss informed him that his four-year contract was being terminated although Coetzee did not have his 2017 performance review yet. (((What is to review- he is the worst Springbok coach in history)).

    Coetzee's evaluation was supposed to be concluded in December already but it hasn't even started yet as SARU can’t agree on which panel members will conduct it. (Is this incompetence of SARU- or is this just about having racial representation of the panel??)

    “In the context of the engagements between you and I prior to the (January 18) meeting‚ it was made plain to me that the meeting would deal with the anticipated performance review and its procedures as contemplated by my employment contract,” he wrote in his letter. (They had a meeting, and they said the performance was crap and totally unacceptable. Get lost already). 

    “Instead‚ the meeting was used as a platform to inform me of Saru’s decision that it intends to‚ inter alia‚ terminate my contract of employment with immediate effect.”  (When were they supposed to terminate it)

    Coetzee also alleges that Roux informed him that his 'services will be terminated regardless of the outcome of the anticipated performance review‚ as contemplated by my employment contract.” 

    (This onus will be on Coetzee to prove this. However, if this happened it was not due process- and therefore not good practice. This should have never have been stated before the meeting). 

    It's highly unlikely that Coetzee will continue in his role as Rassie Erasmus is now firmly entrenched in his position as SARU's director of rugby. 

    “Should I wish to remain in SARU’s employment‚ I will be reduced to a ceremonial coach‚ and further that Erasmus has already been employed to replace me and is already performing the duties of the Springbok coach,” Coetzee wrote.  (You have always been a ceremonial coach- even at the Stormers when Rassie was the brains of the operation). 

    “Should I be reduced to the position of a ceremonial coach I would have to face the indignity of reporting to Rassie. The fact that a decision has been made that I will be reduced to a ceremonial coach should I resist any attempt by Saru to terminate my services does not only constitute an unfair labour practice but again infringes my right to dignity and equality.” (Not sure that is illegal to search for replacements- especially as Coetzee has not met either performance or quota targets). Sounds more like communism mentality of using worker unions to avoid responsibility of performance.

    Coetzee also lists numerous reasons why he was “set up to fail” as coach. 

    This includes the timing of his appointment. (This was stupid. However, he still accepted the job under these conditions.)

    the little input he had on the appointment of his assistants and value-adding staff, (Again true, but he accepted the job under these terms)

    SARU's’s policy regarding overseas-based players, (Coetzee himself said that selecting overseas player was a risk as their fitness levels and conditioning was not clear)

    as well as a lack of support for transformation and logistical constraints.  (Everyone knows the politicians use lack of transformation as a means to further their own personal goals. The grassroots interest is non-existent). 

    “I will not allow elements in SARU to willfully destroy me and render me unemployable. I am not interested in money and that I will fight to protect my hard-earned reputation,” he wrote. (Pdivvy did eventually get a job as a School rugby coach- but was also fired on the basis of non-performance)

    It is a capitalist world. Survival of the fittest. Yes SARU is a bunch of amateurs, but Coetzee is nowhere close to either performance and quota targets. He chose to work with amateurs and this is what happens. He is the coach and always maintained he had a plan. He never spoke out in public or challenged his employer to change- other than some useless cliche's at indaba's). The reality is that he should never have been given the job in the first place. The Boks deserve an international standard coach. Rassie is ok- but not in the league of Eddie Jones etc. 

    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    27 Jan 2018, 18:39
    #2
    27 Jan 2018, 18:39#2
    Coetzee appears to believe in the divine right of coaches. All this legal gobbledigook misses the fundamental point, you have to perform. Coetzee hasn’t.
    KI
    kingcornPro3,695 posts
    27 Jan 2018, 21:44
    #3
    27 Jan 2018, 21:44#3

    Ag please Coetzee. You had 2 years to turn the ship around, but were to proud to seek help in the right places. He rather surrounded himself with people that kept telling him that he is the right man for the job instead of people keeping him honest. 

    Have a read on wikipedia about his career and you will quickly notice how poor his has been as a coach and had it not been for working under Jake White or Rassie, he would never have had a chance to come near a successful team. 

    I almost feel that Coetzee was never chosen by White but instead thrusted upon to make the management more diverse. If you look at the boks record under white. Won the the Trinations in 2004 playing the most attractive brand of rugby in years and then in 2005 and 2006 they went backwards. At the same time Coetzee joined. 

    Roll on 2007 and the boks are still struggling a bit, but competitive. Roll on the world cup and Jake brings in Eddie Jones to coach the boks backline. All of a sudden players like Butch James and Steyn become world class. 

    Is it coincidence, I think not. Every singly bok player raved about the positive influence Eddie brought to the team. Do we hear Coetzee name at all, no. 

    Roll forward, Rassie is putting the Stormers shambles back together and all of Sudden Alistair gets appointed and before we know it he becomes the currie cup coach. Rassie is then forced to only coach the stormers and a year later Coetzee takes over from him. 

    The Stormers started to go stale and they turned from playing an attractive brand of rugby to a team that can't get any bonus points. The team had a home semi final and got completed destroyed because the players simply did not know how to attack or play what they see. 

    Rassie gets fed up and decides to take a smaller role elsewhere to get away from the politics. The stormers start to go back at a rate of knots and eventually Alistair calls it a day and joins Japan. 

    Rassie is the front runner for the bok job after Meyer leaves and started to do all the prep for the season, but Oregan Horses Foresking drops the bomb that Coetzee will be parachuted in. 

    Rassie turns around and buggers off to Ireland. Not intended on having Coetzee ride on his tale coat again like he has done for so many years before. Taking credit for something he never did. 

    Fast Forward to 2017, Munster has a phenomenal couple of seasons in a short space of time, but SARU send out an SOS. 

    Coetzee needed a life line, but refuse to link up with Rassie out of sheer pride and takes his appointment as an insult rather as the help he needs. Gets hammered by Ireland and then manages to scrape past France and Italy, only to blow the lead against an extremely poor Wales team with Idiotic substitutions. 

    This man is a shining beacon of delusional BEE makes people and make them believe that they are entitled to job based on race and not ability. Believe their own BS that the system is against them. 

    What a chump, unfortunately I think that this letter was leaked deliberately to force SARU hand to keep him and get rid of Rassie in fear of the ANC getting stuck in with all their threats of boycotts, but unfortunately there is no RWC carrot to throw around. 

    I just hope SARU catches a wake up call and cast off the dead weight and sort the entire rugby mess out in SA. 

    No other springbok coach in history has been awarded so much time with no results. 

    It is not racist, bok fans are passionate and do not tolerate losing or accepting a loss as a win. We strive to be number one and whether you lose by 1 point or a 100 points or you win 7 out of 10. The Fans expect 10 out 10. It is simply in our DNA to want to be the best rugby nation in the world. 


    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 08:36
    #4
    28 Jan 2018, 08:36#4

    BEE the racist policy of the corrupt ANC. When will merit be the criteria. 

    CE
    CeradynePro9,374 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 10:41
    #5
    28 Jan 2018, 10:41#5
    A few questions about Rassie: 1. How many titles has he won? 2. Which were the ones that he won? 3. When did he win them? 4, How many sides/positions did he drop like a bad habit? 5. Which players and/or coaches did he drag along with him following the above? 6. What are the chances of him not seeing out his current contract with SARU, bearing in mind that this is not his first contract with them?
    sharkbok
    sharkbokCaptain23,256 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 12:42
    #6
    28 Jan 2018, 12:42#6
    1. Rassie won the Curry Cup twice when it was still competitive - with the Cheetas
    2. Rassie finished top of the league table in Super15 for the Stormers
    3. Rassie's Stormers could defend AND attack.
    4. As soon as Rassie left the Stormers they started a decline. 
    5. Rassie won the Pro12 for Munster in his first year.
    6. Rassie has more respect from other coaches.
    7. Rassie has more respect from the players
    8. Rassie is not a top 5 coach in the world, but he might be in the top 30. Unlike Coetzee.
    9. Rassie is not Alister Coetzee


    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 14:04
    #7
    28 Jan 2018, 14:04#7

    Beeno

    In the world there are wise men and fools and was it not Einstein who said that there are two things in the world that is unlimited  - the one I refer to is the foolishness of people.   The  other is the universe that he has not been proved - the stupidity one he found to be true.

    Whenever I read a contribution from ceradunce the limitless stupidity is a proven fact of life.   What he knows about rugby is clearly near to zero.   He thinks that Meyer was God's gift to rugby - not realizing his limitations as a coach.  

    For some reason or another the fool thinks that Erasmus is not a real rugby fundt since he (Erasmus)  is  supportive of the concept of thinking rugby.   He apparently never read or believe what the Munster players think of Erasmus as a coach.  

    So why bother to respond to the Ceradunce rantings.     

    GE
    generaltitPro3,164 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 15:53
    #8
    28 Jan 2018, 15:53#8

    Lol Shark...

    Coetzee looks like he is toast

    Yeah...Post Toasties

    CE
    CeradynePro9,374 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 19:57
    #9
    28 Jan 2018, 19:57#9
    @Sharkbok, obfuscating?
    PL
    PlumCaptain21,007 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 20:11
    #10
    28 Jan 2018, 20:11#10

    Nice points King and Cera.

    Nothing to add really. Just that based on the way Coetzee has constantly blamed the Bok decline under his charge on everyone and everything it's no surprise that he now wants to make himself out to be the victim.

    Everyone says he's a nice guy. He strikes me as a complete coward. 

    Got a feeling that Rassie is gonna bring a lot of good out of our young pack. Stick is back though...so there's that :/

    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    28 Jan 2018, 23:23
    #11
    28 Jan 2018, 23:23#11
    Rassie is not the answer.....we need a committed, technically up to date competitor. Not a guy who disappears the moment the going gets tough. Guys like Eddie and Hansen are in it for the long haul. Committed, willing to take the negative press....relentless. That’s not Rassie. He isn’t going to take on the system to get the right Springbok team. The fact that he has twice accepted staff roles and the rumour about Stick say he is not serious. Better than Coetzee but if anything best suited to be a consultant.
    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 01:21
    #12
    29 Jan 2018, 01:21#12

    This from the guy who initially supported the appointment of Coetzee and was a great admirer of Meyer.   The coward tag is typically from a rugby illiterate who knows preciously little about rugby as a game. and spread useless false gossip,    

    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 03:35
    #13
    29 Jan 2018, 03:35#13
    This from the guy who was bottom on the Make Believe Rugby list.
    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 06:12
    #14
    29 Jan 2018, 06:12#14

    It always amazes me how some folks are so ignorantly biased against Rassie Erasmus the rugby genius. Rather than being thankful that this superb coach has taken the risk of accepting this poisoned chalice of quota based Bok rugby, these mamaparas  malign him and show their ignorance and bias. 

    Its all very shameful and although I do hope  these oaks will wise up but I fear the bias and ignorance runs too deep in this case.

    The hapless cerudunce windpomp should pay close attention to Sharbokkie's surprisingly excellent comment! Ditto the erring Dr Moz  - whose debacle regarding backline wannabee 103 kg matfiled comes to mind as well!



    3K
    3ku1Pro2,580 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 08:23
    #15
    29 Jan 2018, 08:23#15

    I don't profess to  be an expert on SA rugby. I think you guys need a quality kiwi coach. But Rassie is a far better alternative. Rassie has at least had some success. I say he should be the next in line. 

    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 12:01
    #16
    29 Jan 2018, 12:01#16

    3 IQ we have a number of quali ty coaches besides Rassie although Rassie is perhaps the sharpest Rugby brain.

    Jake, Brendon Venter, Ackemann and Mallet come to mind. John Mitchell can now be called South African and SA decent coach. Only Mitchell however is actually coaching here. It is simply amazing!

    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 12:02
    #17
    29 Jan 2018, 12:02#17


    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 12:02
    #18
    29 Jan 2018, 12:02#18


    KI
    kingcornPro3,695 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 12:10
    #19
    29 Jan 2018, 12:10#19

    So just confirm my previous assumption on the Coetzee / Rassie saga. A former Stormers Player, Morgan Newman appeared in a VCast where he gave insight to the relationship between lassie and coetzee. He mentioned that Coetzee never really coached the team but was more of a manager than a coach. All of their tactics, strategy and training came from Rassie with Coetzee doing the press interviews and responsible for the match day. 

    No wonder the Stormers did so well, only for AC to mess it up on Match day with silly substitutions. 

    I think that he is also trying to get away from that and be his own man, but it appears that coaching the stormers and springboks on his own has been a complete mess.

    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 14:43
    #20
    29 Jan 2018, 14:43#20

    I think that a coach should be a thinking coach with the abiliy to enhance the playing of a comprehensive game.    The changes in the game is often ignored by coaches and some coaches is still stuck in  the type of rugby played a decade ago.  

    The coach should have the loyalty of the players and also their support in getting team development.  

    So which SA  coaches meet the above requirements?  

    *     Jake White and Meyer do not have the ability to coach modern comprehensive rugby    As an example White had to get in Eddie Jones to deal with backline coaching - he had a serious deficiency in backline coaching as exe4mplifiedibn 2014 when White was the Sharks coach

    *     Meyer was stuck in the past Bulls playing style of 2004 and his selection of players were seriously defective as a result.   Like White his backline coaching bordered on the non=existent.

    *    The three Super Rugby coaches represents a new e4ra of coaches.   Mitxhwell is a good coach meeting most requirements - while Nienaber and Robert du Preez are newbies.   Fleck is the poorest of the three,  

    I would like o see an NZ coach with top class experience - but that is unlikely to happen.   So we are stuck with Rassie - who for the first time in 6 years have to develop a team from the mess left by Meyer and to a bigger extent Coetzee.     

    CE
    CeradynePro9,374 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 14:57
    #21
    29 Jan 2018, 14:57#21

    First off, I am not saying that AC does not need to go. Fact is that he should not have been appointed in the first place but what choices were there. After all, by all accounts nobody wanted the damn job for some "unknown" reason. I have put the term unknown in " " because we all know that the reason/s are not really unknown. Nobody wanted the damn job to begin with and my own assumption is that the terms and conditions attached to the job were not conducive for many folk to be interested in taking it. 

    That begs the question, "Where was Rassie at the stage when they were desperately looking for a replacement for HM?" He was clearly not interested in taking the job then. What has changed? Why didn't he put up his hand at the end of 2015 when HM declined to sign up for another term?

    Now to get to my questions in my earlier posts. To put it into perspective I am going to compare him with a coach who many would like to view as one of the worst coaches ever to coach a team in SA, Frans Ludeke.

    1. How many titles has he won? He won two and shared one (with Ludeke). Ludeke won three and shared one (with Rassie).

    2. Which were the ones that he won? Rassie won the Currie Cup and the Pro12. Ludeke won the Currie Cup and the Super 14.

    3. When did he win them?  He won the Currie Cup in 2006 and shared it in 2006 and he won the Pro12 in 2017. Ludeke won the Currie Cup in 2009 and shred it in 2006. He won the Super 14 in 2009 and successfully defended it  in 2010. 

    4, How many sides/positions did he drop like a bad habit? The Cheetahs when he joined the Stormers. The Boks when he was with Jake White. The Stormers. SARU when he gotthe job at Munster. Munster when he suddenly decided that he will pick up the pieces from AC.

    5. Which players and/or coaches did he drag along with him following the above? Willem de Waal and Duane Vermeulen amongst others when he moved to the Stormers. Bear in mind the spine of a rugby team i.e. the hooker, no 8, scrummy, flyhalf and fullback. Tiaan Liebenberg, from the Cheetahs was already there and then Duane Vermeulen and De Waal came along with him. Then he dragged Jacques Nienaber with him to Munster.

    6. What are the chances of him not seeing out his current contract with SARU, bearing in mind that this is not his first contract with them? That is a rhetorical question but my guess is very slim.

    Then to get to Sharkbok's list which, I assume, was in response to mine:

    1. Rassie won the Curry Cup twice when it was still competitive - with the Cheetas. True. although he only shared it the second time.
    2. Rassie finished top of the league table in Super15 for the Stormers. Nope. Rassie wasn't the coach when the Super 14 changed to the Super 14. The last Super 14 final was in 2010 in Soweto between the Bulls and the Stormers. That was the year when the Stormers finished the highest on the Super 14 log (second) and AC was the then coach.
    3. Rassie's Stormers could defend AND attack. No, they couldn't. They could defend but they couldn't buy a try if their lives depended on it. That was the talk of the town then, remember? Everybody were on their case because the conceded the least number of tries but they also scored the least number of tries.
    4. As soon as Rassie left the Stormers they started a decline. They were already in decline when he left. Their highest Super 14 position was fifth. After AC took over they reached the final against the Bulls.
    5. Rassie won the Pro12 for Munster in his first year. Fact. Although even when Frans Ludeke won the Super 14 again in 2010, people were saying that he was still riding on HM's back. People were saying that Carel Du Plessis was one win away from keeping his job. That win came after his sacking was confirmed and then some still believe that Nick Mallet was riding on his back. Is there any chance that Rassie alone should not take all the credit for Munster? I don't know. I'm asking.
    6. Rassie has more respect from other coaches. Opinion.
    7. Rassie has more respect from the players. Opinion.
    8. Rassie is not a top 5 coach in the world, but he might be in the top 30. Unlike Coetzee. Opinion.
    9. Rassie is not Alister Coetzee. FACT.

    "Jake, Brendon Venter, Ackemann and Mallet come to mind. John Mitchell can now be called South African and SA decent coach. Only Mitchell however is actually coaching here. It is simply amazing!"

    "Just get rid of Stick and bring in Franco Smith", they said. Then they got that and nothing changed.

    "Now, all we need is Brendan Venter", they said. Then they got him and they lost to everybody and their granny. Ackermann has won nothing bar the new watered down Currie Cup with a full strength Super Rugby team. What has Mallett won?

    You can beat your chest as much as you like when it comes to coaches, and getting the best coach in the world is not going to help us one bit. I think that at one stage I compared getting a new coach to sticking Elastoplast on a compounded leg fracture. We haven't got the players. We may have one or two but a squad? No ways, we don't.

     Just think about it. When we won our first RWC, it was around the time when Transvaal were dominating the Super 10 and the rest were not too far behind. When we won the second one it was in a time when we had the final of the Super 14 in SA between two SA sides. That's how strong our rugby was. In 2007 the question was not who to take to the RWC the biggest issue was who to leave out of the squad. That's how strong our rugby was. In the 2011 we came close to getting into the final despite clowns like PDV, Dick Miur and Gary Gold, thanks to two things. The legacy that Jake White left behind and the strength of our teams in the Super 14. We won it in 2009 and in 2010 when, once again, two SA teams battle it out in the final in SA. In 2015, when we were as kak as can be in Super Rugby we still managed to get to within a whisker of being in the final. If our rugby was anything near as strong as it was leading up to the 2007 and 2011 RWCs we would have nailed the 2015 RWC again. OK, maybe it is a bit arrogant to say that, but I'm pretty confident that we would have been in the final.

    Fact is that I do not believe that Rassie is going to make any difference, if he even sees it through, that is. Until we are a major force in the Super Rugby again, I do not see us winning a RWC again any time soon, no matter who the coach is.




    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 15:26
    #22
    29 Jan 2018, 15:26#22
    Well that’s a bit depressing but I have to agree with almost everything you say Vlag. We used to be a nursery for centres, scrumhalves and flanks. No class player has emerged in these positions for years.....nobody of the stature of du Preez, JdV or Burger. As you can probably tell, I 100% agree on Rassie......it’s a question of character not nous. Coaches make players.....but players also make coaches. If Brendan Venter is a great defensive coach why did his team concede twice as many points as the next worst team in the Six Nations? Answer....he never had the players.
    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 16:30
    #23
    29 Jan 2018, 16:30#23

    Cerudunce windpomp overlooks one HUGE fact in his very warped analysis. The Cheetahs resources as compared to the Bulle! That he overlooks such an important point shows he has no clue whatsoever. The Cheetahs winning under Erasmus is of far greater note than any bulle win. Two of the three Cheetahs Currie Cup wins in their entire history were under Erasmus!

    Then Cerudune Windpomp distinguishes himself again with another huge blunder. He says our Super Comp performances are not up to scratch - Lions excluded I guess - amazing how with decent coaching a bunch of nobodies became somebodies! But what ou cerudune windpomp doesn't mention is that there are over 300 profess ional players overseas who if they were all in South Africa would greatly strengthen our Super Comp sides!!! These days even younger players are leaving as the weak Rand makes it extremely lucrative to play in top competitions overseas.

    Now if you don't grasp such elementary factors it best not to display your ignorance and say we have no talent. What a load of rubbish.  Then we have quotas disrupting selections of coaches and players. 

    Look we have been through the many reasons why rugby is not doing well but to come up with there s no talent must rank as one of the most clueless comments ever.  Ou Cerudunce Windpomp win mamapara of the month award. hahahahahahahhahaha

    PL
    PlumCaptain21,007 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 17:29
    #24
    29 Jan 2018, 17:29#24

    Indeed Beeno.

    And for the last two years running the Lions would destroy the Boks as selected and coached under Coetzee.

    That pretty much says it all. 

    Nobbis, Gold, Robbie were in charge of our major unions. It's no bloody surprise that only the Lions have done well. 

    Cera makes some points that I agree with but ultimately our performances in SR and the RC would be much improved under better coaches. 

    It's not nearly as dire a situation as it's being made out to be.

    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 17:58
    #25
    29 Jan 2018, 17:58#25
    Plum ou cerudunce windpomp can't see the wood from the many trees! Hahahahahahaha
    sharkbok
    sharkbokCaptain23,256 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 20:05
    #26
    29 Jan 2018, 20:05#26
    The options are extremely limited from South African coaches. Most of them have one game plan which is kick the ball away - unless in the opposition half. 
    The only decent coaches we have are Jake White, Ackerman, Rassie and Meyer. I still doubt any of these would make the top 20 coaches in world rugby, or perhaps even the top 30.We deserve a top 5 coach in the world- but we cant get one because of the transformation objectives.
    In particular, our coaches do not seem to train players how to play 15 man rugby- i.e a backline that knows when to go wide or carry it up nearer to the forwards. Not New Zealand rugby- but a backline like the Lions that at least understand what space is, and how to create it.
    The loosies are also poorly trained at the rucks- and don't adapt to the game instead preferring to stand off the ruck to carry up the lost ball.
    Noel Marius- Pub Team standard. '
    Gary  Gold - Crash ball. One trick pony. Appears to be get fired from every job he gets.

    Jake White- The most experienced. If he could get a good backline coach, may be a good option. 
    Brendan Venter- A club coach at best. Always makes an exit strategy once his game plan is worked out.
    Rassie- Still green at international level- but appears to have potential. Coetzee: utterly useless.Mallett: retired
    Ackerman- Perhaps should have been given the Bok spot. 

    Meyer-   Got expansive for a while - then when the pressure built resorted back to kick and chase.
    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 20:12
    #27
    29 Jan 2018, 20:12#27
    Dream on, dream on....the CC is a tournament played without Springboks. The Cheetahs are not disadvantaged in the CC because they have no Springboks. When Rassie was dondered by Matt Cockbain he lay there and took it instead of fighting back.....not a fighter.
    3K
    3ku1Pro2,580 posts
    29 Jan 2018, 21:32
    #28
    29 Jan 2018, 21:32#28

    Beens for Brain. John Mitchel is your idea of a quaility coach? Hahaha. One of the worst ever coaches to coach the mighty Abs. 

    And Rassie is not a fighter? Is he in Boxing? Implements right game plan players can get behind that is all you need. 

    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 00:02
    #29
    30 Jan 2018, 00:02#29

    I would for once in a decent manner respond so that he can appreciate about what is really going on in SA as far  as rugby is  concerned since you are living in the UK:-

    *    The first issue is the absence of talent.   It is not really true    The second weakest in team in te CC - the Cheetahs -  are beating Club teams in the Pro14?   In any event you have compared to local supporters very little TV exposure as to rugby in SA To say they do not have the players is showing that you are not up to date.

    *     The issue about where was Rassie?   It is public knowledge that Rassie applied for the job and was on the shortlist for consideration, but he did not get the job - the politicos won.       After it  became clear that he at that stage  lost interest and applied for the job at Munster


    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 00:20
    #30
    30 Jan 2018, 00:20#30
    How many people have you managed 3 ko’ed 1? The right game plan is 20% of the puzzle, the right players and motivating them is the other 80%.
    sharkbok
    sharkbokCaptain23,256 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 01:12
    #31
    30 Jan 2018, 01:12#31

    "The right game plan is 20% of the puzzle, the right players and motivating them is the other 80%." 

    That is bollocks. If it "was" true, the coaches should be psychologists and not former rugby players that have the knowledge and experience to train people and select a game plan. A motivational psychologists  speaker is good for a one-off before the game.


    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 05:40
    #32
    30 Jan 2018, 05:40#32
    Not psychologists.....leaders. Patton wasn’t a limp wristed psychologist, but he could get men to deliver 105%. There isn’t a sheet of paper’s worth of difference in the Aussie and NZ game plans.....but the ABs generally win because they are ready for battle and there are no weak players on the park.
    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 05:56
    #33
    30 Jan 2018, 05:56#33

    Mozart

    With your constant support for the "high kick and charge" as a game plan it is dangerous for you to refer to game plans - a subject you are evidently ignorant about,    

    sharkbok
    sharkbokCaptain23,256 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 09:12
    #34
    30 Jan 2018, 09:12#34

    This is unbelievable.

    Now Coetzee is saying it was all a racist conspiracy to make him fail. That the plan was always for him to fail.

    Now he is using the colour of his skin to gain support- by saying Rassie is not about transformation. 

    Allister insists Rassie is less competent2018-01-30 07:28SHARE THISAllister Coetzee (Gallo Images)Related Links

    Cape Town - More revelations about Springbok coach Allister Coetzee’s explosive letter to SA Rugby have come to light.

    News broke at the weekend that the embattled national coach had hit out at his employers in a letter addressed to SA Rugby CEO Jurie Roux.

    READ: Coetzee lays into SA Rugby in sensational letter

    Coetzee reportedly sent a 19-page document via his legal representatives to Roux in a bid to show that almost all of the problems during his two-year tenure are due to external factors.

    Coetzee won only 11 of his 25 Tests (44%) in charge of the two-time world champions since his appointment in 2016.

    It is now clear that SA Rugby wants to get rid of Coetzee, but the coach feels he was not treated fairly.

    Netwerk24 on Monday afternoon shed more light on the letter in which Coetzee in particular hits out at the appointment of Rassie Erasmus as SA Rugby’s director of rugby.

    Erasmus now looks set to take charge of the Springboks.

    According to the Afrikaans website, 

    Coetzee claims: 

    1. Erasmus’s appointment is a “less competent candidate” being preferred to him and

    2.  that it would not be conducive to transformation.

    Coetzee wrote: “There is a general view among SARU ranks that the intention was always to replace Heyneke Meyer with Rassie, but SARU wanted to avoid any controversy regarding race.

    “A strategy was developed to use me as a coloured person to conceal the end goal - by offering me the job as Bok coach - but to not equip me with the necessary resources to adequately perform my tasks. It would lead to me vacating my position earlier in order for Rassie to eventually be appointed.

    “This strategy is not in line with SARU’s strategic transformation plan. It’s distasteful to say the least, to use me as a black South African as a pawn in such an untenable manner.”

    (Now he is calling himself black instead of colour. He is using the communist party and transformation as a means to retain his job- even though his transformation of players record is terrible. .

    Coetzee added that Erasmus’s appointment “in general” does not promote transformation. 

    He also said it was “shocking” that he was being used as a “ceremonial” coach that must report to Erasmus, who Coetzee “with respect” described as “less competent”.

    Rassie is a million times better than this clown. 

    Under the guidance of Coetzee, the Springboks endured a torrid two years, with several unwanted records being set which include:

    - First ever defeat to Ireland in South Africa - in 2016

    - Biggest defeat to Ireland - 38-3 in 2017

    - First ever away defeat to Argentina

    - First ever defeat to Italy

    - Worst ever year in Springbok history - 4 wins from 12 Tests in 2016

    - Most points ever conceded against New Zealand (57) in both 2016 and 2017

    - Biggest margin of defeat in Springbok history - against New Zealand in 2017 (57-0)

    PL
    PlumCaptain21,007 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 09:33
    #35
    30 Jan 2018, 09:33#35

    So until now here are some of the things he has blamed for his horrible results as coach...


    Late appointment

    Lack of support(even though he was humored with his very own indaba). Clearly this was all a part of the rouse.

    Players - Literally throwing some of them under the bus at times when it was clear that they performed brilliantly everywhere else but under his charge.

    Schedule/Fixtures/Traveling- Because obviously SA is the only team in the world with long seasons and hectic schedules.

    Inexperience - Unlike NZ who played very inexperienced players in the WC and won it.

    Support Staff - Wasn't it the ANC who gave him those? Ergo, the ANC are also racist conspirators against Toetie.

    SA Rugby Structures

    Injuries

    Conspiracy

    Racism


    So it must then mean that Alexander, who is also coloured person is a racist too...against coloreds since it appears that Alexander wants him gone.

    Pretty much everything under the sun is to blame for him picking poor sides and failing to provide them with any type of game plan.

    The guy is a weasel and a coward. Rugby is not a game for weasels and cowards.

    Good riddance




    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 14:03
    #36
    30 Jan 2018, 14:03#36

    We are dealing here with a total incompetent who points fingers at others and the above is real BS allegations by Coetzee.  He should leave with that minimal credibility he may still have - at present he is destroying that as well.     

    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 14:10
    #37
    30 Jan 2018, 14:10#37
    No more Mr Nice Guy?
    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 14:45
    #38
    30 Jan 2018, 14:45#38
    What this does show is the ultimate absurdity of a super arching goal to transform. Given that goal was stated in concrete quantitative terms it dominates any vague performance goals. And Coetzee is shrewd to present his credentials as superior to Rassie’s in that regard. This whole sad edifice needs to be swept away and a new competent coach appointed. But the sickness will only be cured if that coach has performance goals.....in modern professional sport no coach can afford to ignore the best player regardless of skin colour. South Africa has moved way past the need for this emotional nonsense.
    sharkbok
    sharkbokCaptain23,256 posts
    30 Jan 2018, 15:21
    #39
    30 Jan 2018, 15:21#39
    Toetsie has now found a new list of reasons

     Springboks

    Springboks

     SpringboksTHAT letter: Penny-pinching irked Allister2018-01-30 15:48Allister Coetzee (Gallo)Related Links

    Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer

    Cape Town – Cost-cutting by SA Rugby during his troubled, now deeply endangered two-year tenure thus far has clearly riled Springbok coach Allister Coetzee.

    Key details of his recent, in-depth letter to SARU chief executive Jurie Roux have already been published by various media, the gist of it being his belief that many of the problems that have bedevilled his tenure – including a win percentage of only 44 by the national team – are due to factors beyond his control.

    But additional information gleaned from the letter by Sport24 suggests that Coetzee became increasingly angered by steps – often seemingly for reasons of increased financial austerity – that thwarted him from getting what he wanted in several respects.

    “Toetie” also laments his belief that predecessors like Jake White (he was part of the RWC-winning coach’s back-up team in 2007) and Heyneke Meyer were generally better treated and had superior powers in certain aspects of their posts.

    He states in the letter: “I was and still am being treated fundamentally and prejudicially differently from Meyer and Jake White.” (This is because Coetzee you never deserved the job- and delivered the worst record in Bok history- breaking many of the worst stats in your first year). Additionally, Coetzee almost bankrupt SARU in his first season.

    He provides a specific panel in which he draws comparisons – many of which he considers unfavourable to him – in back-up support earlier provided to Meyer (who, nevertheless, sports a considerably superior win record for the Boks of 66.6 percent than he currently does).

    Coetzee starts the comparison by reminding that, unlike Meyer, he was “not allowed own management team … only Matt Proudfoot” and was hamstrung by the presence for varying lengths of time of “four different defence coaches” (Jacques Nienaber, Chean Roux, JP Ferreira and Brendan Venter).

    Is he now throwing Brendan Venter under the bus?

    He claims he had no specialist breakdown consultant, whereas his immediate predecessor did, and only one “analyst” to Meyer’s two.

    The incumbent says Meyer enjoyed the services of more than one psychologist, as opposed to his own “seven days” of usage of one.

    Coetzee also says the services of a massage therapist were “discontinued” during his tenure, after being available more consistently to Meyer.

    For further ammunition to his cost-cutting claims, Coetzee also reminds that the Springboks “flew economy (class) for the first time, 18 hours to Dublin, via Doha”, for the latest end-of-year-tour. These budgetary problems were due to Coetzee almost bankrupting SARU in his first year. Coetzee has lost lots of fans- who generate the money.

    He says SARU, in another first, “compelled management team members” – though it is not clear if it included himself – to share hotel rooms.


    ---------

    The massage therapist must have been the reason for the poor performances. 

    Or maybe it was the phycologists? 

    Or perhaps it was the bus driver or now flying economy class for the first time. 

    Or was it perhaps the coaching team have to share a room in a dormitory hostel at £10. 

    Or the single analyst. 

    What a joke, the SpringBananas c oach


    KI
    kingcornPro3,695 posts
    31 Jan 2018, 10:26
    #40
    31 Jan 2018, 10:26#40

    So Jan De Koning published this yesterday. 

    http://rugby365.com/countries/south-africa/83029-bok-files-all-the-gory-details

    Almost the entire letter that Coetzee wrote to SARU. 

    It is sickening to think that he has reverted to type and plays the race cart and deliberately through in transformation at the core. 

    He complains that he had not support and that all of the other coaches got to do what they wanted, but what he doesn't like to admit to is that Meyer and White were force to pick players like chill boy who doesn't even deserve to be in squad or on the bench but had to have them in the team. How much weaker did that make the teams that he had.

    He then complains about how it all started, but he only got the job in April which Rassie already implemented some plans for him, Johan van Grain and Jean Roux was still around to help out but he was so arrogant that he blamed them for his failures. 

    Stick was only there as an apprentice and happily hanged him out to dry. He had the 3 months between the June internationals and Tri Nations to sort out his management.

    He goes on to complain about Rassie hiring the staff without his approval, but contradicts himself as Rassie actually brought the man back he wanted in the first place. 

    He added Pieter De Villiers that was part of the previous coaching setup and brought in a fitness guru. What has Coetzee done in the 2 years he had.

    Only hire a couple of part timers. An Exit coach and and an expansive attack coach. 

    Where is his meticulous planning on how to get the most out his players. 

    It is just a pile of dung that he is peddling. Completely out of his depth. 

    We will never know how good Rassie will be, but what he does bring is fantastic organisational skills and setting up teams for success. 

    Look what he did at WP. Don't just look at the trophy cupboard but look deeper at the Junior ranks. WP u 21 got transformed and won the age groups for 5 years running. 

    These were same players that he brought through the age groups. Etzebeth, Botha, Kolisi, Schekeling etc. The list goes on. 

    He setup a conveyer belt of talent and ensuring that Stormers had a great squad of players to work with. 

    The only problem was the window dressing puppet that screwed things up

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