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FORUM / RUGBY /  The AB flyhalf race

The AB flyhalf race

Started by clevermike18 REPLIES280 VIEWS· 31 May 2014, 14:59
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 May 2014, 14:59
#1
31 May 2014, 14:59#1

Barrett


Barrett today did himself no favours - he in fact was a poor show of his normal self.  It was probably due to the fact that his forwards were under pressure and he did not get decent enough balls resulting in him being under pressure himself.   It raises a nasty question - is he good enough under pressure.


His stats are as follows:-


Barrett0/2410/30/74510053/01/000/0


He made one decent line break - but for the rest showed nothing - the ball possession losses is really worrisome.


Cruden


Something is amiss with Cruden.   He made a couple of very bad mistakes  and he did not show much in attacking play - probably for the same reason as Barrett.


His stats are as follows:-


Cruden0/175/11/512001411/10/020/0


No show in attacking play - poor ball retention and giving away 2 penalties.   His defense was fine.  On the whole not the kind of performance record to be expected from an international player.


Slade


slade had a good game and he did not show the negatives of the Barrett and Cruden as is evidenced by the following:-


Slade0/0158/23/744001111/20/000/0


Conclusion


If the Round 16 matches are  the only consideration I think the better flyhalf of the three was Slade.


Barrett had an up and down season in Super 15 and in some games he was brilliant - in others anything but.   Cruden was injured and out of the game for more than a month.   He was somewhat of a see-saw rider as well.  However,  in his first full game after injury he definitely was not a house on fire.


It is hard to follow in the footsteps of Carter - but I would think that the be st choice would in fact be Slade






     

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 15:20
#2
31 May 2014, 15:20#2
 The abs are wrapping Carter up in cotton wool ou maaaikie for the WC?I think you are a bit harsh on beau and the Crude. Both had fair games. Crude's two grubbers were well excecuted.Its difficult for a smallish flyhalf to shine behind a beaten pack.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 May 2014, 15:28
#3
31 May 2014, 15:28#3
I think they were both thinking about the ABs even if they tried not too.
Slades knows he has to show he has the goods still so he had to keep his mind solely on his performance with the Saders.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 15:42
#4
31 May 2014, 15:42#4
 JW what is the current status re Carter?Lets also face facts no matter who gets selected in his place it is a step down. Dan is an all time great -almost as good as N aas Botha.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 May 2014, 15:54
#5
31 May 2014, 15:54#5
Carter is fine &  will return as planned. We won't know if he is still prone to injury until he plays a few games though. Who is this bloke Naas
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 15:59
#6
31 May 2014, 15:59#6
 JW as you are new to the game - Naas was rated by no less than Danie Craven as one of the five greatest players ever. Craven of course would not have seen Carter but would not have had to change his mind.Nass was the total tactical master flyhalf who controlled the game with his boot. He could also run brilliantly when he chose to do so. A master flyhalf if ever th ere was one. Very quick reflexes and mind.Carter probably tried to model himself on Naas but never had the boot to quite do so.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 May 2014, 16:03
#7
31 May 2014, 16:03#7
Beeno: you should be spending your valuable time inspiring the (soon the be Mighty) stormers .
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 16:09
#8
31 May 2014, 16:09#8
 JW I fear they are beyond even my powers to inspire.Let's face it a Stormers win would be the upset of the year. Sharks should be trying to bank 5 points.
If we get some players back we may give them a go at Newlands. I am expecting devastation at scrum time.
Who do think should be the abs flyhalf. There is not a lot in it between the three candidates. Cruden has the most test experience so my guess is that Hansen will go for him.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 May 2014, 16:10
#9
31 May 2014, 16:10#9
 Beeno
Only one of the two grubbers that let to a Chiefs try was by Cruden -  I will have to watch the game again to see who kicked the second grubber.   Definitely not Cruden - I think it was Marshall.
Was Naas Botha ever a flyhalf?  I thought he was a kicking robot.   
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 May 2014, 16:13
#10
31 May 2014, 16:13#10
 I think Cruden will be Hansen's pick as he is the incum-bent  and Barrett is unbelievable off the bench. The fact is we need them both & also Carter with slade in the wings.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 May 2014, 16:26
#11
31 May 2014, 16:26#11
 Just Win
Problem is that just like McCaw. Carter may have gone off his mojo during his sabbatical.  We will have to wit and see what happens.  
Agree with you about Cruden though.    
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 May 2014, 17:14
#12
31 May 2014, 17:14#12
McCaw is gradually getting into it, he played well against the Force & always takes it up several notches when he plays for the ABs. 
Carter usually slots right away it's just about durability.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
01 Jun 2014, 20:38
#13
01 Jun 2014, 20:38#13
there really is no flyhalf race, pecking order is as simple as it gets,,,

1 aaron cruden
2 beauden barret
3 colin slade

and once dan carter the greatest 10 to ever play the game returns, he will claim his rightful place as the All Blacks incumbent No10 and everyone else will move down one.

form is important, but it is not the only thing that matters, if it was, the the NZ flyhalf peckking order would look like

1 beauden barret
2 lima sopoaga
3 colin slade

there is no way u go into battle against a team like england with these three as ur preferred flyhalf options.
this list is the kind of list for teams like scotland etc

talk about king richie is the same ol same ol, he was defensively huge for the crusaders last weekend, making 22 tackles from 22 tackle attempts, a pilfer and forced trunover as well.
like last year when he outplayed all his counterparts in every All Black test he played, looked for the same to happen this year as we countdown the time from when king richie raises the webb ellis cup in 2015,
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
01 Jun 2014, 22:57
#14
01 Jun 2014, 22:57#14

 ... if Barret was the form standoff then how come the Canes lost to the Highlanders and the Blues last month...?? ... that bloody Hammet strikes again I guess lol...all hypothetical anyway... am a big Beauden Barret fan too but Cruden is the best according to Hansen as well with Barret a close second...


..with the sudden death footy coming up we'll have a better idea who the form standoff is and who can take the pressure...you'd have to think the players involved in the June tests will have an advantage having the game time as opposed to those left twiddling their thumbs...


Speaking of fly halves getting game time - Blues flyhalf Simon Hickey captains NZ with the first JWC matches today Match Day 1


                                     NZ vs Samoa game tonight 7.35

                                         SA vs Scotland this arvo   3.35

                                            OZ  vs Argentina first   1.35


 also playing today...Wales vs Fiji

                                France vs Ireland

                                  England vs Italy


Match Day 2 is Friday June 6th


 ..schedule link..

http://www.allblacks.com/jwc


MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
02 Jun 2014, 19:56
#15
02 Jun 2014, 19:56#15
@brycy,

". if Barret was the form standoff then how come the Canes lost to the Highlanders and the Blues last month...??"
while u didnt say it outright, the implication is clear.
time to take of those chief tinted glasses, cos like beer goggles, its making crudenr look a  whole lot prettier then he really is.

do u remember when the chiefs all drowned in the category 5 level hurricane in rnd 13,
barret the master was instrumental in that hiding, and when crudz came on he did sweet F all except get pwned and elevate barret into a grandmaster.

fast forward a week later and the waratahs bernard foley took cruden to school, how many errors did cruden make in that game, my disgust made me lose count after 5.

can u really say that on 2014 spXV from, cruden has been better then barret???

"that bloody Hammet strikes again I guess lol...all hypothetical anyway..."
too F-ing right bloody hammet strikes again, hurricanes have exceeded all expectations despite having that handicap around their shoulders, after all hurricanes are currently in the top 6, while the chiefs are not.

that is also an extra feather in barrets cap, cos crudz has rennie and smith helping him along, while barret has had to put up with the worst super rugby coach in NZ history.

"am a big Beauden Barret fan too but Cruden is the best according to Hansen as well with Barret a close second..."
and im a big fan of crudz, always have been and always will be.
but i dont think that hansen thinks that cruden is the best, he just thinks that cruden is the best option for the All Blacks, and i agree with that line of thinking.
form is not the only prerequisite for All Black selections, hence crudz has all the rights to being first pick, and thats also  why when carter returns, i would have no problem with crudz going back to his rightful place of No2 and barret going down to 3.

but mark my words brycy, after carter hangs up his boot, it will be barret who will be the incumbent All Blacks 10, not crudz.

"..with the sudden death footy coming up we'll have a better idea who the form standoff is and who can take the pressure..."
lucky for u, the finals arent this week or this conversation would be over quicker then barret can run.

chiefs have the hurricanes first up again after the june test series, so hopefully no injuires to All Blacks, especially with the hurricanes producing more All Blacks then the chiefs,
but it could be just the match we need to settle this barret vs crudz debate,
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
02 Jun 2014, 20:14
#16
02 Jun 2014, 20:14#16
 10) C Slade 11 ) J Savea 12) C Smith 13) M Fekitoa 14) B smith 15) I Dagg.
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
02 Jun 2014, 20:43
#17
02 Jun 2014, 20:43#17

 Sas......haven't heard anything for awhile about captains that are backs that shouldn't be because backs shouldn't be captains for some reason...although haven't the Canes and the Crusties got captains that are backs ??  ... just pulling yr chain mate ..


....but seriously when players come back from injury off the bench they aren't expected to be at their best are they so yr argument pretty much invalid re the Chiefs vs Canes game...Was a must win for the Canes, they were desperate and the same happened last year...

...but Cruden really has nothing left to prove...he's already proved himself in that historic 100% AB record last year....he's already proved himself winning back to back championships with the Chiefs as their MVP...he's already proved himself captaining the NZ U20 side to victory in 2009 and Manawatu at the age of only 20...a legend in the making... 


...what about that awesome try he  scored to tie the game in South Africa as his hand was already broken at the time... just shows the class and leadership we've all come to know he possesses to save the day...have to remind you about that Irish test when someone (that will remain unmentioned )called for him to be dragged in the live chat only for Cruden to save the day again with the last kick...same person on live chat called for him to be dragged in another match in SA only for Cruden to save the day again..lol...not much egg on face....


....couple more games and the Crudz will be back up to speed and the tests should take care of that and all the evidence points to Cruden being the best man for the job...also looking forward to the rematch with the Canes ...


Looking forward to NZ vs SA on Friday as well...both teams in good form...NZ to kick yarpy butt..


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Jun 2014, 21:17
#18
02 Jun 2014, 21:17#18
 Brycy
I watched the Under 20 WC matches and Hickey did not start.  The NZ under 20's qwew under considerable pressure  for most of the second half and hickey came on at about Minute 65.   Was not much better than the starting flyhalf.
I must say I was not really impressed with the NZ team and they will have serious problems insofar as their forwards are concerned.  They will have to play SA on Friday and I do not think that they would be able to beat us.  I think the SA Under 20'a will beat them by circa 20+ points.       
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
04 Jun 2014, 18:07
#19
04 Jun 2014, 18:07#19
@brycy,

"Sas......haven't heard anything for awhile about captains that are backs that shouldn't be because backs shouldn't be captains for some reason...although haven't the Canes and the Crusties got captains that are backs ??  ... just pulling yr chain mate .."

then maybe sarugby.com should have a subscribe option, so that iu can keep up to date with all of the uchiha clan rugby gospel, lolz.


i have said plenty of times that snake shouldnt be captaining the hurricanes, but it dosent bother me as much cos at least it dosent effect his performance.

but in sayuing that, in my eyes, vito is the real captain.


i still believe that the best captains come from the forwards, with the only exceptions being the #13 trinity in umaga, mortlock and odriscoll.

halfbacks can make good captains too, but they are as their name says technically half a back,


crudz is awesome and i am a big fan, but just cos i thinks hes boss, dosent mean his poor performances are going to escape my all seeing sharingan.

IMO 2014 spXV season has been shit for crudz, especially compared to the last two years.

and while i dont blame him being captain for the poor performances, the numbers and visual assessments dont lie, cruden has been poor anbd there is a correlation between that and his new role as captain.


flyhalves IMO have enough on their plate being the first receiver for the majority of the 80 minutes and that comes with it tactical kicks on both attack and defence, marshaling the backline and then some.

they really dont need to be the captain as well, best to leave that to someone else, but crudz can still be a heavy contributor by being a part of the leadership group.


"....but seriously when players come back from injury off the bench they aren't expected to be at their best are they so yr argument pretty much invalid re the Chiefs vs Canes game...Was a must win for the Canes, they were desperate and the same happened last year..."

those chief tinted glasses are really hurting ur arguments.


ok then, take only the matches cruden and barret were involved in before cruden was injured, are u really trying to tell me that cruden was better then barret???

if u say yes, insert a picture of me ROLMFAO.


"...but Cruden really has nothing left to prove...he's already proved himself in that historic 100% AB record last year....he's already proved himself winning back to back championships with the Chiefs as their MVP...he's already proved himself captaining the NZ U20 side to victory in 2009 and Manawatu at the age of only 20...a legend in the making..."

as ive said a billion times, cruden IMO is still the All Blacks No1 flyhalf with carter out of the equation, i agree he doesnt have anything left to prove.


and thats lucky for him, cos the whole point im getting at is his form in 2014 is shit by his standards.

if u compare crudz form to barret .50 calibre, then hes been outclassed in every single department bar none.


thats the main point ive been trying to convey.


mark my words, if they continue to perform the same way from now until carter retires, it dosent matter how thick ur chief tinted glasses are, it aint gonna stop barret from becoming the incumbent 10.


luckily though the arrival of SBW next year will help out crudz big time.


"...what about that awesome try he scored to tie the game in South Africa as his hand was already broken at the time... just shows the class and leadership we've all come to know he possesses to save the day..."

sigh, :/


u have been hanging out with our saffa comrades for far too long, cos now ur just making things up and leaving all so much out.


cruden scored the try in the 80th minute to bring the chiefs score to 32, the bulls had 34pts, but luckily anscombe kicked the conversion from the sideline to save the day.


in the lead up to the crudens try, i see u give zero credit anywhere else,,,

- like horrel who who was tackled just before the line but managed to get a good offload to crudz.

- or to pulu who cleverly held the ball up before popping it to tikorotuma and giving him a sweet line break which led to him passing to horrel.


while crudz did score that try, the uchiha clan wont forget the contribution of all those chiefs who u so conveniently left out in that try, LMAO,

 and FYI it was anscombe who was the real hero, he saved the game from the jaws of defeat with that conversion. had the conversion missed, crudz scoring in the 80th minute would have still meantb a loss for the chiefs.


u might not recall the game as i clearly do, cos cruden did good things in that match, but he also did some real poo things too useless tactical kicking, handaling errors at crucial times, and a real shit goal kicking display where he landed 2 from 5 attempts and subsequently gave up the goal kicking dutites to anscombe which is waht i was screaming for during the match.


the part i accuse u of making up is crudz didnt break his thumb (or hand as someone extravagantly put it) in that match, he broke it in the chiefs vs cheetahs match a week later,


"have to remind you about that Irish test when someone (that will remain unmentioned )called for him to be dragged in the live chat only for Cruden to save the day again with the last kick..."

IMO the match was already saved when crotty dotted down over the line. cruden won it for us though, so hats of to him.


i dont really recall me asking for him to be dragged during the live chat though??? but im not saying i didnt, but are u as sure of this as u were of when crudz broke his thumb (or hand, -_o)


LMAO, im just messing with u BTW, so dont go all saffa on me and crack a poo,


"....couple more games and the Crudz will be back up to speed and the tests should take care of that and all the evidence points to Cruden being the best man for the job...also looking forward to the rematch with the Canes ..."

the subscription to bloggers option i mentioned could have told u i have had similar sentiments.
and yeah, im looking forward to the hurricanes/chiefs rematch too.


"Looking forward to NZ vs SA on Friday as well...both teams in good form...NZ to kick yarpy butt.."

cant see NZ losing, and it would be nice to add the kiddies trophy along with all the other silverware that NZ owns and SA dosent, lolz,

— END OF THREAD —

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