The Antipodean challenge

Much has been made of the supposed superiority of southern hemisphere rugger (mainly by southern hemisphers braggarts it must be said) but I for one am singularly unimpressed with the WC squads named by these so-called antipodean powerhouses.
The Convicts seem to have adopted the Kiwi's poaching policy and have managed to pillage enough cannibals from the Pacific Islands to have a bit of pace and power in their measly ranks for once, but these coconut-pickers tend to be a rather lazy bunch and the Convicts may still rue the decision to pick too many islanders like Folau and Kuridrani at the expense of pukka Anglo-Aussies like White and Horwill.
The Steroid-Boks have - as usual - picked as many big and violent thugs as they can without contravening their self-imposed and frankly racist colour quotas, but it seems to me that most of the steroid-abusing boer bullies in this squad are either old, unfit or just plain useless. Not too many Anglo-Yarpies in this squad. The impressive Pat Lambie is the only one I can think of and it's doubtful whether one player can bring enough English pluck and ticker to an entire squad.
So what of the much vaunted Kiwis? We know they're the reigning champions (admittedly thanks to the Southern Hemisphere referee society) but what the devil were these chaps thinking naming only one fullback and leaving out the likes of Israel Dagg and Charles Piu-whatever? Like the Steroid-Boks, they have a few relics who have seen better days and let's not forget that whatever British ancestry these New Zealand chaps have is from inferior Scottish stock which rather explains why they have turned into tongue-protrud ing savages to a large extent.
The one thing favouring these SH pretenders is the fact tha the vagaries of the draw mean that - barring a disaster - they should have two of their teams in one of the semifinals meaning one of these overrated teams will actually make it to the final through luck rather than any rugger ability.
Oh well, justice will be administered in the final and - whichever antipodean side gets there - they will be put into their place by their historical masters.
For St George and the Queen. Hip hip hurrah for England!

 
It seems you're being ignored.

For the life of me I can't see why!

It's not as if you were fibbing.

So St George and the Queen are anxiously awaiting the trophy are they?

Any idea how they felt after the last encounter with France and the subsequent world ranking drop?

 

Kitch, I'll keep it simple.....not a single one of your Pom squad would make the AB side, I actually doubt many would make their B side.....I might give you Cole, Lawes and Joseph to make their B side.
Despite our useless squad under conservative Meyer, not a single Pom would make the Bok side.....at a stretch I might include Youngs or Care ahead of our old farts at 9.....that's it......maybe Watson ahead of Habana. But as I said, probably not.
The only Poms who would make the Oz side would be Lawes and maybe Cole
Thats how crap your squad is

 Kitchener.....are you my Mother ?! If so, when did you become so computer savvy ?
Toodle pip  

@Kitchner - In honour of the English royal family and their loyal minions " the working class  majority ",I dont think you have a team that will trouble the Southern Hemisphere teams. 
England have the smallest player pool due to it being a game that is only played in private schools. Softies that are injury prone. Remind me who the first choice England team is, because everytime they play it seems to be a different team. Their is not many players who are assured of starting positions- let alone established combinations. 
Ireland have a population of under 5 million and they have a better rugby team that England with a population more than 10 times bigger. 

When last have England won a game in the Southern Hemisphere?Argentina may actually be better than England at the moment when their first choice test teams are selected. 
England declared themselves ready for the All Blacks after beating France last year. The same France that is no longer a world power in rugby. Unfortunate for the game as they have traditionally been the northern hemisphere team that troubles the Southern Hemisphere.
England will have to rely on their pack, as the backs are not upto Southern Hemisphere standard. 
The fact that South Africa and New Zealand would collide in the semis- if anything the Northern hemisphere has an easy draw. 
NewZealand are at least 20% better than any test team, with South Africa ranking 2nd over the last 4 years. 
Why should these teams have to play each other before the final makes no sense- other than to give the Northern Hemishpere teams as much chance as possible of getting to a final

 The game is not only played in private schools...what are you talking about ?! I mean, really ?! 
As for the rest of your rant, best left where it should be left. 

Nice work Cloudy 

Ou kitchie is a nutter of some magnitide!!! He is of course.a mole and I can only wonder when ou JW will sail forth in his little ref car and friend with big ears. England have I seem to.recall a large number of rugby players?

 Beeno: you may have noticed that I had already identified wee Kitchy as a mole & tentative analysis shows a reasonable chance he is indeed Duke.

 Watson is pure class and is my favourite English player, watching him play is a delight. 

Watson is very good, ever so pleased he was finally given a chance in the team. Hopefully he can continue to improve and will do well in the RWC. 

I don't think our erstwhile Kitchener is Duke.....  

 Lancaster is so useless he won't start with Watson

Shark I understood you lived in England?
For no - one who lives here would conclude that rugby is only played at private schools - what ignorance, are you serious?
Ever heard of club rugby where the thousands of non private school kids play rugby?
England has more rugby players than any other country playing the game in fact.
Get with it 

Shark I understood you lived in England?
For no - one who lives here would conclude that rugby is only played at private schools - what ignorance, are you serious?
Ever heard of club rugby where the thousands of non private school kids play rugby?
England has more rugby players than any other country playing the game in fact.
Get with it 

Shark I understood you lived in England?
For no - one who lives here would conclude that rugby is only played at private schools - what ignorance, are you serious?
Ever heard of club rugby where the thousands of non private school kids play rugby?
England has more rugby players than any other country playing the game in fact.
Get with it 

Saffex, I dont have kids so you would certainly know more about the sporting setup here at school.
I was allways under the impression that Rugby was only (or at least primarily) played by the rich- and that football was the sport for the masses.
I did some research and it seems that some players get scholarships at young ages. 
Not sure what the numbers are- but certainly different to Wales.
It would seem. Although I have met people here before that have played rugby at school- and also those that did not have rugby at school. 

England v Wales v rugby: Does a class divide still separate the sport in the two rival nations?

• 00:01, 24 FEBRUARY 2012
• UPDATED 19:48, 26 MARCH 2013
• BY DARREN DEVINE

BORN into families that had spent generations in the toughest of industries Wales’s rugby greats of the past were hewn from coal and steel.

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A typical scene at a lower league Welsh rugby game

BORN into families that had spent generations in the toughest of industries Wales’s rugby greats of the past were hewn from coal and steel.

No doubt it served them well when they bestrode European rugby like a colossus in the 1970s.

But how much has changed from the days when Wales versus England was about so much more than rugby?

Back then, the contest transcended sport and pitted Welsh working class passion against English public schoolboy privilege.

Not very much – it seems.

A cursory delve into the backgrounds of Saturday’s expected Welsh line-up alongside the English 15 reveals the social divide between the teams is the chasm it ever was.

All but two – George North and Alun Wyn Jones – of the Welsh 15 were educated in state schools. By contrast around half of the English players went to private schools.

Gareth Edwards, one of the few Welsh players of his generation to go to a private school, says the mainly working-class roots of the Wales team helped with its cohesion and unity.

Edwards won a scholarship to Millfield School where he played alongside fellow Welsh legend JPR Williams. The private school in Somerset has a long-established reputation for nurturing sporting talent.

Edwards, the son of a miner, said: “It matters where you come from because everybody is comfortable in each other’s company.

“I don’t think it’s a conscious thing, but if you’re aware of your background and tradition you want to maintain that.

“Most of the guys (of my generation) went to grammar schools and secondary modern schools.

“JPR had a year in Millfield as well. I was from a predominantly state school background, though I had two years at Millfield.

“Historically it’s always been the case that rugby was a working class game in Wales. That’s been a huge difference throughout the years.

“Whereas predominantly in England – and very much in Ireland and Scotland – it’s been a public school game.”

But Edwards, 64, added that the more humble roots of Welsh rugby haven’t prevented the nation’s independent-sector schools playing an important part in its history.

Christ College Brecon and Llandovery College have produced a steady stream of internationals down the years – Llandovery more than 40, including current star North.

He added: “Llandovery College played a huge part in Welsh rugby in the early years.

“There are lots of Welsh boys who’ve been to boarding schools like Llandovery and Christ College.”

Sociologist Stephen Williams believes the social divisions between the Welsh and English sides continue to add an edge to their meetings.

Dr Williams said Welsh rugby’s working-class roots go back to the 19th century split that divided the game between the union and league codes.

This saw the vast majority of northern English teams that attracted large working-class followings leave and form league clubs.

Welsh clubs, Dr Williams argues, had more in common with the embryonic 13-a-side game, but remained within the southern English structure as the game here began to prosper on the international stage.

Wales’s rugby union sides found their chances of success much improved when many of England’s best players in the northern game could no longer represent their country after the split.

The University of Glamorgan academic said: “The game in Wales is important because it’s seen at a national level.

“In England, though it’s changing, rugby union is still seen to be predominantly middle-class public school boys.

“In a way that class conflict arises within the sport and it does cause an edge.

“The basic level of difference is class – it’s a sport of national unity in Wales and it’s a minority sport in England.

“And us beating the English increases our sense of national identity and that’s why it’s important for us to beat the English and do well.”

But Edwards believes that the advent of the professional era in rugby – with all now highly paid sportsmen irrespective of their roots – has made background less important than it once was.

He said: “The point is now they’re all professionals and that’s how the game has changed dramatically.

“We had guys who worked underground like Dai Morris and guys who worked in the steel works.

“They’re all professionals now so maybe socially they’re from different backgrounds, but really they’re all prepared in the same way.”

Next page: Wales and England players and where they went to school

Wales and England and where they went to school

ENGLAND

15. Ben Foden (Bromsgrove School – public school)

14. Chris Ashton (St John Fisher Catholic, Wigan – state school).

13. Manu Tuilagi (John Cleveland College – state school)

13. Brad Barritt (Kearsney College, SA – public school)

11. David Strettle (Lymm High School – state school)

10. Owen Farrell (St George’s School, Harpenden – public school)

9. Ben Youngs (Gresham’s School – public school)

1. Alex Corbisiero (Hall School, Wimbledon – public school)

2. Dylan Hartley (Rotorua Boys School – boys only state school).

3. Dan Cole (Kibworth High School) – state school

4. Geoff Parling (Ian Ramsey Church of England school – state school)

5. Tom Palmer (Otago Boys High School – boys only state school)

6. Tom Croft (Park House School – state school)

7. Chris Robshaw (Millfield – public school)

8. Ben Morgan (Katharine Lady Berkeley's School – state school)

WALES

15. Leigh Halfpenny (Penyrheol Comprehensive)

14. Alex Cuthbert (Newent Community School)

13. Jonathan Davies (Dyffryn Taf Comprehensive)

12. Jamie Roberts (Ysgol Gyfun Glantaf)

11. George North (Llandovery College – public school)

10. Rhys Priestland (Ysgol Gyfun Bro Myrddin)

9. Mike Phillips (Dyffryn Taf Comprehensive)

1. Gethin Jenkins (Bryn Celynnog Comprehensive)

2. Ken Owens (Ysgol Gyfun Bro Myrddin)

3. Adam Jones (Maesydderwen Comprehensive)

4. Alun Wyn Jones (Llandovery College – public school)

5. Ian Evans (Blaengwawr Comprehensive)

6. Dan Lydiate, (Llandrindod High School)

7. Sam Warburton (Whitchurch High School)

8. Toby Faletau (Filton

 Right, so you are blatantly ignoring the comment from an English person who is telling you that it is absolute tosh about Rugby being for the posh boys and discussing it with Saffex. You really couldn't make up the misogynistic nature of most of you, could you ? No, really, you actually couldn't. 
Public Schools and Grammar Schools played rugby as a matter of course, Secondary Moderns did not. Comprehensives did, depending on the areas they were placed in and whether they had large fields to play on, for example ( Football can be played anywhere, Rugby cannot ) 
As for it being the domain of the rich.....look up the history of my Club, Sharkbok. See what their heritage is and how old they happen to be.Northampton Saints, give it a try. You might learn something. 

Then again, as you will have just ignored everything I have written, I don't suppose you will bother to and will remain ignorant of a few more facts !! 

Yep in England school rugby is played at the private and grammar schools. There are some Govt schools that play rugby but generally they are few and far between and tend to be pretty weak.
But virtually every town in the country will have a local rugby club with a large junior section. This is where the govt school kids get to play rugby. The best of these kids will end up at private schools through scholarships. Four of my club side ended up at my son's school through scholarships for instance. One of them has just signed a contract with a French club.
My boy used to play for school on a Sat and for club on a Sunday until his final two years when it was too much for them to play 2 matches a weekend given the physicality of the game by age 16 onwards.
But there are more registered rugby players in England than any other country playing the game.
There is a reason England are always good at U18 and U20 level. Their senior sides struggle because of the heavy pollution of foreign players - just like their football

 Nope JW, Duke is a very politically correct "brain" washed noodle. 

 Oh and now who is talking " crap ", Saffex ? All the " Govt " Schools, we actually prefer the term Comp's, but there you go, in my County, play Rugby and, good lord, some of the boys have made it into England A and, shockity shock horror, the England team  I can think of certain private schools where I can't even name one old boy who has made it into the England Squad, but there you go. They must be " weak ", I suppose. 

But yes, like everything, we have far too many foreigners " polluting " the country full stop, not just in Sport. I see the time is coming for change in that area. Thank goodness I'm English, that's all I can say.....

Ok Becs I get your point to some degree. 
Though you must concede that the the club rugby is an opportunity to change schools- which gives the player the privilege of playing schools rugby and other benefits . 
I am not sure what a grammar, or secondary or modern school is. Which one is for rich kids and club rugby bursars?  
I guarantee that I have met a decent amount of people who did not have rugby at their schools. 
--

 Secondary moderns no longer exist and there are very few Grammar Schools. Up until the 1960's, an Exam was taken, called the 11 Plus, which split the children that did not go to fee paying schools into either the Grammar School system or the Secondary Modern system. Grammar Schools were, by and large, private educations but without the fees.A lot of the kids going to a Secondary Modern would have to leave by the age of 15, to go to work, and they concentrated on giving a good grounding in more technical subjects and typing skills ( if they were a good School ) as opposed to the highly academic education at a Grammar. Some Secondary Modern schools did not give out homework to pupils, it was not even allowed ( an old Teacher of mine taught at one ! ) and they were quite chaotic !! The Labour Party wished to destroy the Grammar School system, seeing it as " elitist " and thus they created Comprehensives, an amalgam of the two school sub types. Very few Grammar Schools have remained since the changes were made and Secondary Moderns were completely abolished. Comprehensives have really been rather a failure all round, much like GCSE exams !! 
As for Public/Private Schools, the saying goes, a true Englishman knows there are only two Public Schools in England, Eton and Harrow !! 

Being completely honest, those players I know who made it into England Schools and the further England Squads, didn't gain bursaries, they stayed at their schools and that included Comprehensives. I really think that has become more prevalent these past few years since the advent of Club Academies. I think that has something to do with it. 

 Sharkbok.....Looking at the picture you inserted is it not a game between the Queens and who knows the other team?
 If it is wow they are sure attracting many spectators with their rugby skills.
Just to let you know that England has the most rugby (registered) players of all the countries.
I stand to be corrected but I also believe that they have the most clubs as well.
Please advise if you know differently.
But besides that they have been a fair side mostly......but have not had a great record against stronger teams.
But they do play their heart out unlike Victor, Morne , JP, Burger, Jannie, Pienaar and company.
Chee rs.

 Becs stop speaking utter shit.....name the Govt schools in England that have any standing in rugby....name them.
I don't give a toss what you call the schools....my take was for the benefit of Shark who is a Saffa and will know what I mean when I speak of govt vs private schools....calling a school a public school when in fact it is private is stupid in itself.
Govt schools are utterly shit at rugby hence the 1st few rounds of the national schools comp like Nat West or Daily Mail being a joke as the private schools put 50 plus over those schools.
You are speaking shit

You state that there are only some Comp's that play Rugby and they are few and far between.That in itself is " utter crap " 
That's enough discussion with you  

Becs I actually worked on Harrow on the Hill for a while when I lived in London. It did seem like a school of Harry Potters. 

 Oh did you ? Gosh, you think that was bad, you should have been to Eton Seriously, that is THE School for the poshest of them all....and they really don't do well at Rugby !Not because they aren't tough.....check out the Wall game.......

As I said Becs you are speaking utter shit but why not prove me wrong by naming a strong govt rugby playing school.
Let me guess the odd rugby lesson in PE at a govt school constitutes them playing rugby does it?
My club had many govt school boys in it....they all played for their school sides who were utterly hopeless and played all of about 3 fixtures in a whole season. No coaches involved....the PE teachers were tasked with the job....its a farce.
But come on name the govt schools

Strangely enough, Comp's don't have " Coaches "' they have PE Teachers. And some of those teachers even played Rugby for Clubs like Northampton, for example. 
A former Head of PE at a local School around here, also a former Saints player, became Head of Schools Sport for England funnily enough. He retired not long ago, actually. 
But there we go, those Comp's, total rubbish. Not like those schools folk pay to send their kids to  

 Ah so all the private schools who play in the very same comps that the govt schools play in have PE teachers as the coaches do they? Is there no limit to the crap you speak. 
The Govt schools in England don't play rugby, those that do play very little and the standard is shocking. That is a fact.
I don't give a toss where the head of sport came from....we are talking about the standard of sport in govt schools. Don't insult my intelligence telling me sport or rugby is alive and well in govt schools in England. What fucking rubbish....sport is either non existent or played at a pathetically low level.
Now instead of blowing a whole lot of hot air....name a govt school that is good at rugby....answer the damn question. It can't be hard given your assertions 

 No, Saffex, you tell me where I actually said that. Go on, give me the quote please, I'd like to see it. 
State Schools, that is their correct title, do play Rugby. I'm so glad you think that Schools such as RGS High Wycombe and NSB, to name but two in my area, are so horrifically poor. Note to self, must Tweet Matt Dawson and let him know your opinion on his alma mater and the " shocking " standard of Rugby/players it produces. 

 Seems others have tried to figure out who Kitchie was in the past & Beeno though he was Duke
Link to 2012 thread

Link discussing Rooi;s arrival

Link on Duke's arrival

 Oi Kitchener are you the bloke wot made all them buns and concentration camps ?Dont think either be real poular with our SA friends ,good attempt at trolling if a bit by-the-numbers .

Mad dogs are Englishmen go out in the mid day sun...

Better wear your pith helmet or your lily white neck will turn rooi.... what what old chap...bloody uncomfortable I'd say

JW and Beeno trying to trace this troll mole, so far without success...

Better get inspector Sebastien Clousseau on the job...he has extremely unconventional ways...but he always get's his man

 
Oh shut your yap Sebastien.

Rather go find some self righteous nonsense to lecture us on.

 

By Jove, what the dickens is going on here? My original post on this thread is covered with some bally advertising pop ups. This won't do at all. Ruddy Yarpies can't do anything right. Poor show.

Oh dear, now I'm not allowed to say d-i-c-k-e-n-s?

Cheerio chaps. I'd say it was fun while it lasted but it didn't last very long at all.

 Um Becs RGS High W is a grammar school try wake up. Did I not say that the private and grammar schools were good at rugby and that the govt schools were crap at it.
You are speaking shit.....rugby is hardly played in govt schools and the little that is played is at an insulting standard - FACT
You can tweet all you like it won't change the facts.
Name a govt school that features in the top 100 rankings brought out each rugby season come on 

 RGS High Wycombe is a State School, Saffex.It is not Private, no-one pays to go there. So please, do tell me how that is not one of your crassly termed " govt " schools ? Some Grammar Schools are Private, this one is not. Therefore, it is one of your hated State Schools, with it's horrifically poor standard of Rugby. I am not the one changing the terms of the argument here. I am giving you an example. 
Northampton School for Boys is a State School. Courtney Lawes can vouch for the poor standard of Rugby there. And, I recall, Steve Thompson before him. 

What part of fucking grammar schools in my original post are you struggling to comprehend....its news to me that some grammar schools are fee paying but that's beside the point.
NSB was originally owned by some brotherhood or something to that effect and is still funded by a trust so is hardly your typical govt school....but that aside they hardly feature as a rugby strength or anywhere of note in the annual tables.
Get this into your head. State school rugby is non existent and the little that is played is of an insulting standard. Trying to tell me otherwise makes you look stupid. Fuck me it's common knowledge that state schools offer very little on the sporting front.
Stop speaking utter crap for goodness sake....do you take me for an idiot?

Kiss and make up you two..........
Could be fun