The case of 34

None of us can escape  the movement of time.We all age and we will one day breath our last breath.In rugby there is a scale at which player are judged.Size,weight,speed,skill and lastly age.There are very few players that have at a ripe old age "game time wise" proved that they are worth their weight in gold.Bret Farve,played 18 season...thats 18 years of preffesional football for the Green bay Packers.And he deserved every minute he played.Then we look at Vince Pepale,who at 36 played for the first time ever in his life in the pro-era for the Philidephia Eagles.

Rugby is yet to deliver such a phenom who at retirement can still be better then most younger players.I am however refering to the ageging players in our local set up.That go's for Bakkies,J Fourie,F Du Preez,V Matfield and J de Villiers.

For each one of them there is an incumbet replacement.We all know their names well.But the problem lies not with the oldies but with the younger generation.Thing is they are not convincing the coach that they are the future.The only player that has really delivered was Etzebeth.The rest was merely their for the show and tell.JJ Engelbrecht has a phenomanal amount of talent.But to stake a claim on the number 13 shirt...I hate to quote Steve Hansen when Rene Ranger asked him what he needs to do to get a chance,"PLay every game exceptionally well."And look at what happened Ranger did just that and was selected.Maybe not full time because he chose family over rugby but we all know who would have worn 13 for the All Blacks.

I do not support our older players.I am a firm believer that in the international set up that if you are past 33...then its time to be dropped indefinitely.There is no point in holding on to past success.We need new leaders and new stalwarts in every position.We need the next "Matfield"...the next "J Smit"...the next "Habana"...but the young guns need to pull thier socks up or the coach will have faith in them.Why would a coach pick some one if he knows that the individual player is not giving his 110% to be selected for that position.If Serfontein was really that good...then let me tell you Jean would have been playing in Europe by now.And our looming captiancy crisis"That Jake White has sorted out for Meyer" would have been sorted.

If Goosen was really the cock-and-bull stories we hear about him worth then Morne would have been at Stade a long time sooner.What happned to Taute...issues...who knows?

Let these words sink home:If you want to play for the jersey then be ready for a fight or piss-off!!!! 

 Arizona

I know you think I am a fool - but I have to say the above is one of the best neassges posted on this site for a long time.   I love the following and agree 100%:-

"Let these words sink home : If you want to play for the jersey then be ready for a fight or piss-off!!!!"

This idea of some posters that selection should be based on performances of years ago

and reputation - rather than constant excellent performances - is an abomination   When a person writes so and so was a match winner in 2009 or 2011 - hence he should be in the team in 2014 - it shows serious deficiency in thinking.

I also agree about the age issue - players perform best in the age group 25 to 30 and that is a fact of life.  There are exceptions, but those are rare.  De Villiers put it bluntly when he said that to maintain his performances of the past he now has to train twice as hard as he used to. 

So most of these so-called Golden Oldies need to piss off as well !!!!

 #Mike

I dont think your a fool.We might not always agree but that only means we have to agree to disagree.

Ceradyne

What about the rest of the players who runs off to play touch rugby in Japan and club rugby in Europe?   Do they train twice as hard?  Not on your life they don't.  Looking at two examples who trained bloody hard munching food - Francois Steyn and Gurthro Steenkamp - Ione can clearly see what they are up to.

There can be no argument about players having to work hard to earn their jerseys.  Some players think it is an entitlement and should be selected on reputation.  They do the minimum in both the tests and in franchise matches  - that is the problem.

The problem is NOT with the up and coming players - it is with some of the incumbents and some of the foreign-based players.   Other than a professional like Louw - the rest has all been poorer after departure than they used to be.   Why - because of the easy life they get accustomed to.         

 Ceradyne

Meyer at the end of 2012 said he made some serious errors in selection.   One would have expected to have learnt from those - but he plunched into even worse errors in 2013 - and that is factual.

Lets look at the p[layers he approached and how they performed:-

*   Botha - was poor in e Scottish test and not much better in the French test.

*   Du Preez - did quite well in the Soweto romp against the Argentinians - but showed virtually nothing of his old class in the succeeding tests seemed to have run out of gas.   He did well against the Welsh though.

*    Fourie was solid in defence and did squat in attacking play.  

The sooner Meyer forgets about these older players - the better it would be for the Springboks.  

By the way that statement you quoted relates to all players - not only the foreign based players.   I will give you an example of a non-worker playing on reputation and you do not have to look further than Alberts.  In the CC final his major contribution was to stand around the back of the mauls to get a ball to carry and impress the media.  He did squat else.  Missed 4 tackles and made 3 and had 3 insignificant ball carries.   In the game on Saturday against Saracens he did exactly the same - he never made a single tackle - no ball protection at breakdown points and he had one ball carry where the public could see him.   Last Super 15 -- he loafed through the games he played in and thrived on reputation.   White is not going to fall for that one.   On Saturday he replaced him early - because he was totally ineffective and did virtually nothing during the whole game.   The ethic is earn your jersey - not play the reputation game.     

Spot on Arizona........the investment in washed up hasbeens like Kirchner, Aplon, Fourie, Jean, Morne, du Preez, Pienaar, Steenkamp, CJ and Bakkies is the greatest stumbling block to us challenging NZ for top honours.

Jean and du Preez still have some positives to contribute, but certainly not as starters.

Bok rugby needs to move on and we have the youthful talent in abundance. The problem is, Meyer is a conservative chappie, evidenced in some of his poor selections.

Test players need to meet certain physical standards in order to make an impression.......yes there is the odd exception to the rule, but that is become less and less apparent these days. Your props and locks need to weigh 115kg and more, centre around the 95kg mark etc.

The same applies to age........when test players get to 30, their best days are done and should be replaced with better youngsters, unless these old boys are still the best in their positions, as Habana is and no doubt Bismark will be in a year or so.

But Fourie, Morne, Pienaar, Steenkamp, Bakkies and co are not close to being the best in their respective positions.......there are 3 or 4 better youngsters about

 One thing is for sure and that is that Brett would not have lasted that long on a rugby field of had such a long career.

Its like equating table tennis with road running.

American football is all garbage and bullshit........60 minute game that lasts about three hours and its like touch/flag ball. The players might spend 15-20 minutes on the field per game.

The Americans.......its hard to believe that these guys actually got to the moon and back.

Must have been the German rocket scientists and know how??????????????????

Slapgat nation.

Sorry to pop your bubble.

 APD

You  have it spot on here.  I like Esterhuizen and Swiel a lot.  Top class youngsters those two.    Saffex will shoot me - but I think in the long run Andre Esterhuizen may be better than Jan Serfontein.      

 What I was trying to say is,Meyer keeps going to the older players cause the younger guys are not really laying down the law and taking a position from another player.Yeah some look good and promising but that is not enough.And yes Meyer is conservative cause who wants to loose their job ?So for wins,no matter how ugly they might be will keep going back to the dinosaurs of South African rugby till the young guys say..."Enough with this BS!!!!Step up or step aside!!!!"Then we will see all these oldies go off in to the sunset.

The all blacks are where they are because of the competative spirit with in the team to wear a jersey.Players are not selected there on merit.Players are selected dou  to performance,the likes of Ben Smith that stepped up and proved he is a force to be reckoned with.

If JJ is so good...then lets see him tackle Nonu that he strugles to get up!!!If Serfontein is that great,lets see some tries every game!!!!If Goosen is worth all the Hype let him put Morne to shame every minute of every game.I wanne see line breaks like its out of fashion.If Reinach is the man for the no 9 shirt lets see how he drives the forwards on,take charge like a general of those big lumps and fool the opposition.

And the same applies to all the younger player...make Meyer rethink what he is doing then we will see a difference.Then Matfield will coach the under 15 side at Waterkloof.