CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Oct 2017, 07:17#1
The following cases were in evidence:-
* The knock on by Louw causing Etzebeth to be off-side and a converted penalty to start off the AB points;
* The charge-down kick of Jantjies leading to the Crotty try
* The knock of the ball by Leyds prior to the Ioane try.
* The atrocious scrumming by Dreyer leading to 4 penalties awarded to the AB's
* The poor defensive records of Louw, Leyds, Jantjies, and Serfontein taking into account both missed tackles and ball possession losses
All the above3 players were pointed out to be poor selections on this site and if the team had available better players in those positions the result is most likely to have been different.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 07:25#2
* Damian de Allende's late charge leading directly to the winning points for the All Blacks.
You're welcome.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Oct 2017, 07:46#3
I did not mention De Allende because in his case it was not intentional or even negligent. He was attempting a charge down of a kick and his momentum carried him to far forward into Sopoaga.
There were serious devisions whether it really justified a penalty - leave alone a card.
The above mentioned by me was deficient in a number of instances and not only 1 - so you are welcome in your comments, .
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 10:03#4
Definitely not a red card, but clumsy and unnecessary. Contact that long after the ball is gone is always going to get you trouble.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Oct 2017, 10:53#5
How do you stop running to and jumping trying to charge down a kick? Can you going into another gear like falling flat or turning on reverse?
08 Oct 2017, 11:07#6
De Allende was sent of for a exactly the same infringement that John Smit was cited and suspended for something like six weeks. It was also exactly the same one that Bismarck got his second yellow in that infamous game reffed by Poite. He charged into an opponent with a leading elbow to the head/throats area. It is not about the result of the charge, i.e. whether the tackled player was injured or not. It is about the action. In both John Smit and Bismarck's cases the tackled player got up and played on IIRC.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 13:46#7
Adding to the villains, I don't think Du Preez could possibly have made less of an effort than he did to tackle Ioane before the latter sprinted away for a long range try.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 13:53#8
* The knock of the ball by Leyds prior to the Ioane try.
Harsh. If you look closely at the incident, it was a poor pass from Cronje straight into the face of Leyds. I'm not even sure Leyds got a hand on it.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Oct 2017, 14:14#9
Bal ls as per normal from the duds on site. You would make a turn in the air and put your arms behind you back simultaneously while attempting a charge down?
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 14:16#10
* The knock on by Louw causing Etzebeth to be off-side and a converted penalty to start off the AB points;
Harsh. He was contesting possession in the air with Ioane.
* The poor defensive records of Louw, Leyds, Jantjies, and Serfontein taking into account both missed tackles and ball possession losses
Tackle percentages (made/attempted)(turnovers conceded):
Serfontein - 66% (3/9) (-)
Jantjies - 72% (3/11) (2)
Louw - 75% (12/16) (2)Du Toit - 77% (10/13) (1)Leyds - 81% (9/11) (1)
Funny how Mike blamed only 4 of those fellows for their poor defense. Guess who is missing. A guy who had only a 2% better tackle success rate than the maligned Francois Louw (it amounts to one less tackle miss in three fewer attempts). Louw also happened to make the second most tackles for the Boks. Leyds had a better defensive record than Du Toit and, as Du Toit, conceded one turnover, yet he was singled out as a major contributor to the loss, while Du Toit was not even mentioned.
Keep it objective Mike. You're protecting your blue eyed boys again.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 14:17#11
You would make a turn in the air and put your arms behind you back simultaneously while attempting a charge down?
Huh?
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 14:24#12
Oh, still on the De Allende thing? You're trying to make it out as a simultaneous hit where he had no choice. He didn't need to make a turn in the air - he landed well short of the kicker, and the contact was so late that the camera had time to pan so far away following the ball that you couldn't even see it happening on the original angle.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Oct 2017, 14:25#13
The lineout loss by Stephanie.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2017, 14:27#14
Just admit it Mike: if it was someone you don't like, say Francois Louw, making that contact in exactly the same way, both him and that incident would have been top of your villain list.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Oct 2017, 14:33#15
Allende could have made a much better effort to pull out of the charge.....he was also hopelessly gassed by McKenzie for the try and missed one of his two tackle attempts. He was worth 10 NZ points in 10 minutes
TTThe_Truth
Club Pro471 posts
TTThe_TruthClub Pro471 posts
08 Oct 2017, 16:31#16
"Balls as per normal from the duds on site. You would make a turn in
the air and put your arms behind you back simultaneously while
attempting a charge down?"
But he could have tried that during the next TWO (2) strides while he was on the GROUND...
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Oct 2017, 19:01#17
Maaik, picking certain moments in the match to pin the loss on a few of your pet hates is silly.
08 Oct 2017, 20:55#19
Mike, not only could de Allende have pulled out of that collision significantly, he also deliberately raised his elbow to hit Sopoaga in the head!!
Open both eyes! Well worth the "red".
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Oct 2017, 21:11#20
Why does the polluters comment on a thread started by me? I ignore Mozart's BS and misrepresentations when he started a threat.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2017, 03:19#21
Agree on du Preez’s non effort to tackle Ioane, he also loped back after Ioane.....at least I hope that wasn’t his top apeed. We saw Stephanie flubbing the McKenzie try. He actually takes a couple of steps back, instead of moving directly towards McKenzie....then makes a clumsy attempt at an ankle tap. A lock shouldn’t be blamed for that perhaps, but a loosie surely should know how to react to a break.
Stephanie and du Preez on the park at the same time is highly risky. Neither of these small locks can make an open field tackle.
BObobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BObobbok...Captain10,129 posts
09 Oct 2017, 06:23#22
I haven't revisited the test but a NZ journo reckons that McKenzie beat 8 players on his way to the line .
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2017, 06:58#23
So the biggest liar ever is ignoring facts about deficiencies of the players and try to blame De Allende, Du Toit and Du Preez for the loss by the Springboks. I expected as much from him. He is such a fool nobody should take him seriously.
What an ass hole that stupid idiot really is.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
09 Oct 2017, 07:23#24
Blob, by my count McKenzie only beat Louw outright, beat a lame ankle tap attempt from Du Toit and outsprinted De Allende. So I guess you can say he beat two tackles. Nowhere near 8. That journo appears to have black fever.
09 Oct 2017, 08:15#25
Well what do you know. Honest-I-never-lie-Mike craps on Moz for pinning the loss on a few players while he has no issue on pinning each and every Stade Francais loss on one single pet hate.
DEDenny
Captain12,893 posts
09 Oct 2017, 08:38#26
Clearly the blame game doesn't come down to one player unless there's a blind spot somewhere.....
09 Oct 2017, 09:04#27
Blind spot or blind mindset?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2017, 11:43#29
So lets summarize.
I think the deficiencies of the players mentioned with examples given was part of parcel of players letting down the team.
The polluters name three different players and blame Du Toit, Du Preez and De Allende for the loss despite the average better performance of them during the whole of the match and the incidents dreamt up is not really evaluated.
The second idiot on site evaluated the defense of Louw and Du Toit - but did not look at the rest of the stats. Foul ups are cc0vered up and others discovered by that idiot and by his ass face boss Mozart.
This lot is best ignored by real rugby lovers.
09 Oct 2017, 12:17#30
Do as I say. Don't do as I do.....,.,,
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
09 Oct 2017, 12:19#31
The polluters name three different players and blame Du Toit, Du Preez and De Allende for the loss despite the average better performance of them during the whole of the match
No, I simply added them to the list of culpable parties since they were all directly involved in pivotal moments in the game. And if you think De Allende had "average better performance" - he did nothing while he was on the field apart from missing 1 of his 2 tackles and conceding the game deciding penalty.
the incidents dreamt up is not really evaluated.
Name the incidents you are referring to and tell us in what way they were poorly evaluated. Debate like an adult. Stop these vague, unsubstantiated snipes and bring some facts to the party.
The second idiot on site evaluated the defense of Louw and Du Toit - but did not look at the rest of the stats.
You clearly stated that their missed tackles and ball possession losses were the reasons for the blame you put on them. I then showed you that Louw and Du Toit was damn near equal in that respect, with one turnover and one missed tackle separating them. Also that Leyds had a better defensive record than Du Toit and also conceded just one turnover. Why do you now want to bring in other stats that was not part of your original assessment?
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
09 Oct 2017, 12:24#32
Sure there were players who messed up at crucial moments but there is another issue which i feel cost us more dearly than any individual player.
The poor box kicking at the wrong times.
How many times did Cronje just hand the ABs the ball and invite them to run. Far too many.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2017, 12:59#33
There were players who systematically gave NZ opportunities.....primarily Dreyer and Lleyds through poor tackling down the touch line.
.....
There were players who were anonymous....primarily Kriel, Kolisi and Louw.
...
There, however, players who in the last 15 minutes made mistakes that lost the game.....Stephanie and Allende.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2017, 15:03#34
And there are liars on the Board - snakes who knows nothing about rugby. The biggest liar on site blames Du Toit, Du Preez and De Allende for the loss. I know the snake would find instances he can use during the game to discredit the players he hates, but I never imagine he would go as low as he did. But then what can one expect from the snakesh!t he is.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2017, 18:28#35
Poofter, you went on for years about the one lineout Matfield lost to Whitelock....now Stephanie has returned the favour Saturday and against Italy. You set the standard....live with it.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
09 Oct 2017, 18:44#36
Was that t he one where Matfield was quite clearly interfered with?
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Oct 2017, 19:18#38
Aag fok Vlag, was dit nou nodig om jou been te lig?
09 Oct 2017, 20:18#39
Daar is min dinge wat my meer irriteer as 'n donnerse huigelaar .
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2017, 21:20#40
The funniest part of that posting is: “ that would be a disgrace and I hope it doesn’t happen”.....when we all know nothing would make Tokkie’s 2017 more enjoyable than Morne being dropped to the second league.
