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FORUM / RUGBY /  "The dumber you are....the more confident you are that you are not dumb"

"The dumber you are....the more confident you are that you are not dumb"

Started by Mozart8 REPLIES272 VIEWS· 23 Jan 2014, 19:57
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jan 2014, 19:57
#1
23 Jan 2014, 19:57#1

This is the so called Dunning-Kruger effect. One I often think applies to rugby posters howling about coaches. If you are so inclined, read the first few paragraphs of this piece....skim the rest.

 

http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2014, 20:57
#2
23 Jan 2014, 20:57#2

Mozart


Interesting article - but the idea is not entirely dealing with a new phenomenon.  Let me explain - in the Stalin era in Russia it was dangerous to have expert knowledge on anything - it could land you in slave camps where the experts had to produce scientific development under slavery conditions.


The idea that all people are equal in all respects - especially mentally - dates from that era and has become an integral part of socialist thinking.   Problem is that the leaders always regard themselves as more equal than others and they abuse their leadership positions to get support of the sheep - the non-thinking voters, who keep them in clover.   This is where the concepts of not listening to the opinion of ordinary people is important - they may not hav e expert knowledge - but they feel acutely what is troublesome to them in their life.


Where the idea in the article goes haywire is he mix it up with something that is inherent to human rights - the allowance for people to speak their minds on things - irrespective of how stupid, ridiculous of ordinary people utterances may be.  Is it not a form of  literal and psychological dictatorship which could stem from thinking like that.  


It also can lead to stultified thinking - you can find experts whose expertise  became dated and not develop in a fast-developing world,   It is equally dangerous to continue with bygone ideas in the modern world.  


To mix  the above article up with opinions on criticism of Meyer as a coach is stretching it a bit.   Do you really think that there are human beings without deficiencies - whether they are experts or not?   Meyer is to my mind a good coach - but he has some hang ups from the past that is problematic and in the view of people who are rugby enthusiasts cost us in future.


I think we are entitled to put down what we think on this site and debate it - after all that is the basic reason for sites like this.   If the idea of all members is to say of Meyer - "Yes sir - thank you sir - you are always correct sir" and everybody thinks that way - then a site like this one will have no reasons for existence.                   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jan 2014, 23:17
#3
23 Jan 2014, 23:17#3
 As Rod Steiger said in Dr. Zhivago "the intellectual life in Russia is dead". It's certainly not new to degrade the intellectual classes, what is unusual is when the deriders see themselves as intellectual. That wasn't the case in Russia....when they said Zhivago's poems were not liked, they never meant they found fault in the iambic pentameter.
Oom you are entitled to put down what you think. But recognize it's not an expert opinion, and where you find fault with HM....it's highly likely that you are wrong.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Jan 2014, 23:18
#4
23 Jan 2014, 23:18#4
 Coaches that fail should be howled at
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Jan 2014, 00:11
#5
24 Jan 2014, 00:11#5
Well, we should always try to respect other peoples' opinions but sometimes it is hard, lol
Perhaps it is easier to respect an individual's right to have an opinion, no matter how idiotic.
When it comes to experts, clearly some are more expert than others & their expertise does not mean they know everything or that they should be given blind faith. 
It would be a boring life if we the fans just said: "well he's the coach so he's an expert so I can't disagree with him".


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jan 2014, 00:48
#6
24 Jan 2014, 00:48#6
Little risk of that JW. The greater risk is fans say " the coach is a dumb fool, and I know better". Unfortunately that is equally tiresome....and much more likely to be wrong!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Jan 2014, 00:55
#7
24 Jan 2014, 00:55#7
Not difficult that Meyer got it wrong playing the likes of Fourie, Bakkies, Steenkamp and co.....easy call. That will become very apparent when these players take on NZ and Oz this year
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jan 2014, 06:48
#8
24 Jan 2014, 06:48#8
Well it's hard to say he got it wrong with those players. After all we beat Wales, Scotland and France since they returned. If that's getting it wrong, I hope he continues to do so.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jan 2014, 07:23
#9
24 Jan 2014, 07:23#9

 Mozart


This is where I differ from you.   Lets put it bluntly - we beat the teams mentioned despite players like Bakkies, Steenjamp and Fourie being in the team - bot vecause of them .


If you look at the actual and statistical contributions made by the players mentioned you have to admit that they did the minimum possible and their contributions could be rated as zero compared to what other players could have and would gave achieved given the opportunity to play. 


I know what your retort would be - namely that Fourie contributed to the try of Du Preez in the Wales test - but he was off-side and with his speed deficiency he would never have got to the ball had he been onside.   A player should not be credited from something resulting from a referee mistake - since  the likelihood of the ref mistake being repeated is near to zero.  In the broader Fourie's  e contributeion amounted to zilch  in attack and solid defence,   He definitely is not the answer at 13.       

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