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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Erasmus tape….point by point.

The Erasmus tape….point by point.

Started by Mozart50 REPLIES2,923 VIEWS· 26 Aug 2021, 04:28
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2021, 04:28
#1
26 Aug 2021, 04:28#1

This is a repeat, but  it was buried in a string. It was a totally one eyed effort, which can seen quite differently. And was there no call that went the other way, or perhaps many exactly like this:


05, 2021, 17:51

Point number 1….Erasmus justifies the Water Carrier….because he’s not head coach. A technicality, he is clearly the head coach. Hiding behind this technicality is avoiding the spirit of the rule. In cricket if the bowler ran out the the non striker without warning him, we would all be up in arms. This kind of behavior exhibited means nothing can be left to good sportsmanship.

Point number 2….Berry was sent the clips, because those would influence team selection. But  there was no feedback till Tuesday. Big deal it’s apparently the convention. So one asks, whose selection was at stake.  The real point is he wasn’t ‘convinced with the clarity’.

Point number 3….the call for a yellow card on the kick. The ‘shoulder charge’. This was a case where Curry was trying to make the tackle before Faf kicked, realized at the last second he was too late and never carried through with the tackle. This was not a ‘charge’ a head on tackle. This was contact after the kick which happens all the time…by the time he realized he was too late he couldn’t pull out and bouncing off him rather than tackling him at that point was less dangerous.  Penalty no card the right decision,


Point 3 Curry entering from the side. Erasmus is right about this, one of many breakdown calls that wasn’t made.

Point number 4 …the foul play call. Reversing a call for foul play is only done when it’s dangerous. Berry is right it’s custom as so much Rugby reffing is, not everything is in the rule book.


Point 5…the tackle of 21 on Allende….this was a restraining over the shoulder tackle and down the chest….it never curls  round the neck….he was actually trying to dislodge the ball, totally different from the Bongi tackle he shows as the base case, where Bongi’s arm does curl round the neck with force. 

Point 6….the Watson tip tackle. This in my view was a clear card, probably red. This was the big reffing mistake of the game, but the onus here has to be on the video ref who had the opportunity to view and clearly call it. Big mistake from Berry….but no bigger than the much more dangerous Kolbe submarine run under Murray, which was more clearly a red.

Point 7….the Duhan lift, actually follows what looks like a no arms tackle by Am. And it happened simultaneously with the ruck being formed. These are minor fragments of time. At no time was the player tipped….marginal at best.

Point 8 …the advantage call. Erasmus makes a big point about time, but it’s really a question of substantive advantage. The Lions gained some territory but never  broke the defence. Willie made a clean break and was about to make a dangerous offload when he lost the ball. Berry called it just before he lost the ball. Unfortunate timing, but to imply intent is paranoid. Which much of this tape is….paranoid.

Point 9….the hold in penalty against Kwagga. Erasmus claims Kwagga is held in by Lawes leg. But actually you see no attempt by Kwagga to move, he remains flat and motionless. The Lion who is trapped pushes up on his one arm to get out and the ball is pushed into him. Once again Berry is right Erasmus is wrong. The few subsequent Lions not rolling away clips were marginal, mitigated by the fact that the ball was available and not held in by the players in question..

Point 10 The Curry in from the side call with ruck formed, possibly wrong but could only be established by a video review. Refs can’t see these things in the fragments of time they occur….and they go both ways. Unless we want endless layering these calls have to be made real time.

Point 11 The Itoje playing through the ruck and Ox Niche penalty….you will see  here Kwagga comes in totally from the side, something he complains about time and again.


Point 12 The Itoje steal ….Erasmus seems to have a problem with him ‘cynically’ pushing the ball to the ground when it’s in both players hands. He finally rips it off Faf. To take a page out of the Erasmus book I doubt there is anything in the laws that says a steal can’t be affected by pushing down. 

Point 13….the Eben non steal Berry coaches Eben off the ball when he fails to make the steal and is off his feet. No penalty…not sure what Erasmus has a problem with.

Point 14…the AR offside call on Allende. From the still Berry threw  his AR under the bus apparently. But the ball hasn’t been passed and Allende is close to the offside. By the time he makes the pass it wa quite possible he was offside.

Point15….Lions player not freezing after the kick….yes technically right, but the player was nowhere near the chase, it was a long flat kick in any case. Embarrassing rom Erasmus.

Point 16 … The Elstadt tackling the player with his knee on the deck. He gives 2 examples of calling it right…then claims Itoje did this to Elstadt in the last  minute. But the strip occurred ‘ in the process’ of Elstadt going down. His knee may have hit a fraction of a second before the ball popped out…but way too close to call in real time.

Point 17….the knock on to Duhan van der Merwe, called as a scrum, not a penalty. Erasmus appears to be right on this one, but clearly Berry didn’t concede the point or Erasmus would have reported it…I’d like to hear Berry’s view.

Point 18 the Sia Kolisi disrespect…the problem here is Sia doesn’t look Berry in the face and make his point. His body language is not assertive and I’m sure his verbal communication is also not crisp. When Berry makes a little joke Erasmus interprets that he is laughing at Kolisi…I doubt it.

Point 19…the Kolbe take in the air. Erasmus says has 3 angles of this but shows none. Perhaps because the Lions player is also locked onto the ball and in trying to secure it pulls Kolbe into touch. Vunipola picking up Kolbe was disrespectful, but I have never seen it penalized.


Point 20 … the Curry scrumming onto Ox occurred because he pivoted inside.. .the lift looked dangerous but is there a law, Erasmus’ gold standard, that says you can’t lift an opponent. I doubt it.

And that’s about it apart from another vigorous defence of having the Director of South African Rugby act as a water boy. I may have missed a few points it was so repetitive. But that’s the bulk of it.




RB
R&BNewbie5 posts
26 Aug 2021, 05:02
#2
26 Aug 2021, 05:02#2

For God sake - No mention of South African infringements - He needs to stop bleating / stop behaving as a 2 year old or pack up his toys and go home - The rest of the bloody rugby world have no respect for him.

He behaved like a 2 year old who did not get his own way so he threw out his toys.

South Africans may be listening but no body else is.  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2021, 05:50
#3
26 Aug 2021, 05:50#3

A fat load of nothing, but useful for separating the plastic from the fan. You're right, what a bore. 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
26 Aug 2021, 08:16
#4
26 Aug 2021, 08:16#4

"The rest of the bloody rugby world have no respect for him"

Not true

"South Africans may be listening but no body else is"

Totally incorrect

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2021, 08:19
#5
26 Aug 2021, 08:19#5

The rugby world outside of South Africa don't respect Josè. It's pretty unanimous that Josè ruined the Lions series and that the Boks played awful rugby. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2021, 14:34
#6
26 Aug 2021, 14:34#6

The truth is Harrassmus and Gatland obviously grew to despise each other very quickly. Then Gatland objected to the non neutral video ref….a fair point, which I would have supported if the roles were reversed.

But Harrassmus saw this as influencing the reffing in the first test….that Gatland had out maneuvered him. 

So he produced this video….which raised things to defcon1 and pretty much doomed the series as a great festival of rugby. But the tape which was immediately accepted as accurate is nothing of the kind. Many of these calls could have gone either way.

And you could have produced a very similar video looking at incidents that should have been reversed in favor of the Lions.

Nobody bothered to go through the damn thing, because it was so boring. So I did, and conclude those were 20 marginal calls. They happen in rugby, all the time and the game goes on. 

This wasn’t Harrassmus serving rugby by trying to improve reffing….this was the coach, embarrassed by having been up staged by Gatland, trying to tilt the playing field in his favor.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
26 Aug 2021, 15:41
#7
26 Aug 2021, 15:41#7

"This wasn’t Harrassmus serving rugby by trying to improve reffing….this was the coach, embarrassed by having been up staged by Gatland, trying to tilt the playing field in his favor"

I agree, this is probably true

However, either way, what he did does help both the improvement of reffing, and getting one back on Gatland

Neither one is a bad thing in my book

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Aug 2021, 15:51
#8
26 Aug 2021, 15:51#8


mozzzzz is far gone. 

Sorry mozzz your trying to justify crooked /incompetent refs is appalling and does you no credit. All made worse by this BS, stain on the game, that has been going on for decades. Its hight time there was a clean up!

You have a great ally in that frot racist Crusader fan. Great company you are keeping. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Aug 2021, 15:51
#9
26 Aug 2021, 15:51#9

Gatland did not only complain about the TMO, he also made a video complaining about some incidents in the SA-A match...it was shorter than the 1h Erasmus documentary. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2021, 16:16
#10
26 Aug 2021, 16:16#10

Quixotic HasBeen. Here are some rules that are totally subjective:

1 Forward pass with drift

2 Lost his bind/ vs knee on the ground by his opponent.

3 Hinging vs belly flopping

4 Support his weight in making the turnover.

5 Neck roll vs arm over the shoulder

6 Late tackle vs in the tackle

7 Interfering with the jumper.

8 Changed lanes in the maul.

9 Pulled down the maul vs it went down mutually

10 Contact with the catcher, while not going for the ball or had no chance to get the ball.

11 Contact with the head/ vs the runner ducked into the tackle

12 Wheeling the scrum vs enough forward momentum to show dominance

13 Clear advantage has been demonstrated

14 Penalty vs foul play and a card.

15 Interfering with the chase vs holding one’s ground

16 Raising the player above the horizontal

17 Tackling a player in the air when he jumped for a pass (Lions 2017)…did he jump after the tackler was committed.

18 Didn’t delay long enough when ahead of the kicked ball.

19 Early engage in the scrums

20 Not rolling away, vs trying but pinned under the opponents who are holding them in.

These and many other situations require judgement by the ref. We can’t refer everything to the TMO, the game would take 10 hours.

How many of these judgement calls does a ref make in a game….a 100? More? Some of these calls on review will be marginal ….a few will be wrong. But the scoring sequences are reviewed if there are any doubts.

That’s what we buy into to have the game we love.  Close calls or a few non scoring mistakes are to be expected. What we don’t have to accept is clear evidence the ref is only looking for mistakes from one team…that is worth raising. But I don’t believe that was the case with Berry, although the TMO was more questionable.

At the end of the day it dominated the Lions series which was a shame.


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Aug 2021, 16:36
#11
26 Aug 2021, 16:36#11
Your bias against Rassie has been there from the beginning. It has got progressively worse and now has reached alarming proportions. 
Berry was at best incompetent but given some very blatant mistakes maybe a cheat. This is a cancer in the body Rugby and MUST be dealt with.Sickening decisions see no repercussions. Many have been noted on this board.I hope this goes to court and Rassie's is awarded millions. I trust also SARU will not bend.Away with mozzzzz and all those supporting incompetent/bent refs etc.Throw out the old soaks at the IRB and clean hou se. The stench is unbearable!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2021, 16:42
#12
26 Aug 2021, 16:42#12
I have never liked Harrassmus from his time as a player, it’s true. You on the other hand probably have pictures of him on the ceiling over your bed HasBeen. Grow up man, he is a competent if limited coach and a self serving human being.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Aug 2021, 16:53
#13
26 Aug 2021, 16:53#13

"Grow up man, he is a competent if limited coach and a self serving human being."

Nothing can be further from the truth...you still don't understand us Boertjies...Rassie does not like the limelight, and him putting the target on his back with the video speaks volumes of his commitment to the team...rather selfless I'd say.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2021, 16:54
#14
26 Aug 2021, 16:54#14

This isn't 2010 Sitzsack, you and too many others talk as though we are still being penalised to the level that we were at that point in time. It hasn't been so for a while. José has never experienced that kind of reffing since 2011 when he lost his first bite at the apple. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Aug 2021, 16:57
#15
26 Aug 2021, 16:57#15

PS...I wasn't on the Bandwagon, but the whole 2019 season proved to me that he knows what he's doing and what needs to be done...he took a bunch of players and built a team...Mighty Boks from a bunch of no-hopers the year before...there's no way downplaying the achievement.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2021, 17:11
#16
26 Aug 2021, 17:11#16

Actually, the Boks had a better record in 2017 to 2018. So, wrong there. He regressed the Bok game in one season. 2019 ? The abbreviated RC? 6th place Aus and 13th place Argentina, both at home. The worst Wallaby side in 45 years. The one challenge, the most vulnerable All Black side 21 years, they couldn't beat. The record does not speak of someone who is great. Over and over we go with this. Get rid of José and get the man who should have been Meyer's successor: Ackermann. It's that simple. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Aug 2021, 17:12
#17
26 Aug 2021, 17:12#17

PPS...Rassie is a bit "woke" for my liking, but his heart is in the right place.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Aug 2021, 17:14
#18
26 Aug 2021, 17:14#18

"Actually, the Boks had a better record in 2017 to 2018. So, wrong there. He regressed the Bok game in one season. 2018?"

Get glasses or set larger font...

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Aug 2021, 18:54
#19
26 Aug 2021, 18:54#19

Rassie is quite possibly going to get a banning but he is self  serving.

My word what next! 

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2021, 20:51
#20
26 Aug 2021, 20:51#20

Really? Time to get yours Herr Draht.


Seriously, all the Church of Plastik has had to offer this week are feeble assumptions. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Aug 2021, 22:31
#21
26 Aug 2021, 22:31#21

"PS...I wasn't on the Bandwagon, but the whole 2019 season proved to me tha..."

Forget the glasses,  a monocle will suit you better Herr Auge.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Aug 2021, 23:38
#22
26 Aug 2021, 23:38#22

Orie pie is about as one eyed as they come Draad. Hahahahahaha. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Aug 2021, 01:02
#23
27 Aug 2021, 01:02#23
Self serving…yep like leaving Jake White in the lurch at the WC. And he made sure the tape got out there to help rugby? Give me a break.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2021, 17:31
#24
11 Nov 2021, 17:31#24

For those who believe Erasmus was right…here’s the truth again

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Nov 2021, 17:54
#25
11 Nov 2021, 17:54#25
Rassie was spot on as confirmed by WR
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
11 Nov 2021, 19:18
#26
11 Nov 2021, 19:18#26
Yep Rassie was spot on in causing a Negative Hoo Ha.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Nov 2021, 20:58
#27
11 Nov 2021, 20:58#27
Negative my arse only to those clowns who don’t like Rassie and there are very few of them
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Nov 2021, 21:02
#28
11 Nov 2021, 21:02#28

... yet there are a few of them on this board...and 3 of them very outspoken about it...of which two use similar phrases etc....mmmm...

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2021, 21:48
#29
11 Nov 2021, 21:48#29

WR has confirmed nothing….you are listening to South African hearsay.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2021, 22:02
#30
11 Nov 2021, 22:02#30

Yes Draad you and Saffex should stop doing that…. Think for yourselves

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
11 Nov 2021, 22:07
#31
11 Nov 2021, 22:07#31

The Kak Pack in full swing. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Nov 2021, 23:47
#32
11 Nov 2021, 23:47#32
Well I fully support Rassie on this and agree with his calls in that game Why on earth would SA rugby say WR agrees with the majority of the points raised by Rassie if that was not the case - come on for crying out loud
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2021, 00:03
#33
12 Nov 2021, 00:03#33
The IOL headline says ‘World Rugby Agrees with points made in the Rassie Erasmus’ video’.  
But then in the text it says:
‘ Durban - It appears that behind the scenes, World Rugby agree with most of the points made by Rassie Erasmus in his famous video assassination of Aussie referee Nic Berry during the series against the Lions, and it is further understood that the video was leaked into social media from Australia, and not by Erasmus.

These claims were made by a South African Sunday newspaper known to have close links to Erasmus, SA Rugby’s Director.’


….

So IOL says basically it’s coming from Harrassmiss or his apologists. It’s a rumour which may or may not turn out to be true.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Nov 2021, 00:28
#34
12 Nov 2021, 00:28#34

You're dealing with some special cases here...


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Nov 2021, 08:14
#35
12 Nov 2021, 08:14#35

So the question is, as I have already mentioned before

What will the responses be from the people who are against Rassie doing this…..if WR do confirm that they agree with 23 out of 26 queries raised

Absolutely nothing...…  he will just get attacked from a different angle or perspective

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Nov 2021, 09:03
#36
12 Nov 2021, 09:03#36

We've gone through his points. We know where we stand in this. For me, in balance with what his conduct and manipulation, as well as the effect of achieving reffing immunity... my stance won't change. Reality doesn't change. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2021, 09:35
#37
12 Nov 2021, 09:35#37

I sometimes wonder how Mozart and the kindergarten Imbecile found the time to write repetitive BS on site.    Anybody who claims that the disastrous Meyer and Coetzee coaching resulted in better performances by the Springboks must really be mentally retarded when it comes to rugby,    

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Nov 2021, 09:37
#38
12 Nov 2021, 09:37#38

"found the time to write repetitive BS on site."

Who the heck are you to talk. Not only are you repetitive, but you double and triple post them as well. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2021, 10:40
#39
12 Nov 2021, 10:40#39

Me accused of repetitiveness when the same garbage is written 20 times a month in respect of  the same players and same coaches,    This has been the case since at least 2014  and has been  ongoing since then.   

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Nov 2021, 10:59
#40
12 Nov 2021, 10:59#40

Boo hoo hoo Rassie is so nasty to point out what a crook Berry is.

It's so unfair. If we could only have more Crooked refs Berry rugby would be far better off.

We could then be assured Rassie wouldn't win another test. Didn't Berry do so well  - a wrong call against the Boks every 90 seconds. That will take some beating.

Oaks these anti Bok twits are a real bore. They pedal their BS  day after day not realizing folk are gettind bored to death by their repetitive drivel.


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